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We may be under grace, but our hearts have the law of God written upon them. Even though I am a Gentile, in my heart I know it is wrong to steal.
Question: what is the difference between God's law and the law of Christ? I seem to remember reading that somewhere? Is it simply the difference between the letter that kills and the life that gives grace? I wonder….
Quote (chosenone @ May 22 2007,18:08) Hi 942767.
I will try my best to explain. Gods chosen people, the Jews, were given the “Law” when God made the “Old Covenant' with them. If they obeyed the law, then when the Messiah arrived and they accepted Him, He would lead them to the “Promised Land”, and they, with Christ the King would be a nation of “Priests and Kings”. Then they were to go out to the 'Nations' (Gentiles), and teach Gods ways, (Matt,28:19) (Most believe that this is “the for “great commision” for the church today, this is error). As you already know, this never happened, they (the Jews) could not keep the law, (the flesh cannot please God), they murdered their “Messiah”, thereby breaking the “Covenant” with God. God has now 'set them (the Jews) aside, and turned to the Gentiles (Acts). During this present Eon, the Gentiles are now joint partakers with God (Jew and Gentile alike).
The death and resurrection of Christ has now “Justified” all, God no longer sees our sin, we have been “Conciliated to God”. God is now placing those HE choses into the “Body of Christ” as He wills. This is by the “Grace of God”. Gods dealing with the Jews was to show that mankind cannot “earn” or do ANYTHING to justify himself. Grace is Gods way of justifying us, something we cannot “earn” , “buy”, or “refuse”. God can change the heart of worst sinner, Grace is God working in us. “The flesh cannot please God”. We are saved by “the Grace of God”. I know this is against orthodox teaching, but this is the truth, “All is of God”. Any one that believes they have to do “something” to 'earn', 'qualify', self for salvation, does not understand Gods Word. They have a need to “boast” that they somehow are responsible for their salvation, that they 'know' what is to be done, while those that are lost do not.
The Grace of God is something that cannot be earned, or qualified for, or bought at any price. It is totally, and only, given by God. When all is done, at the “Consummation”, God will be “All in all”.
I know this is a quick, and somewhat crude explanation, but I hope it is sufficient for anyone that truely is seeking God, will realize that we are totally “clay” in Gods hands, and He is the author of all.All is of God (Ro.11:36). God is operating all according to the council of His will (Eph.1:11).
God bless.
Hi Chosenone:Thanks for giving me your understanding of grace. Now you believe apparently were chosen by God to be a part of the body of Christ, and so on what basis did he choose you, and on what basis does he exclude those who are not chosen?
Thanks
Hi 942767.
You ask on what basis God chose me to be part of the body of Christ. I had no choice, there was nothing that I could do to qualify myself. I was saved by the Grace of God. (Eph.2:8-10) “For in Grace, through faith (the faith of Christ Jesus), are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting. For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them”. You see, There is nothing that anyone can do to save themselves, “All is of God”. Keep this scripture in mind when studying Gods word, and all becomes clear when God, through His Holy Spirit, reveals Himself to you.
You also ask, …on what basis does He exclude those who are not chosen. God will have all saved at the “consummation”, the completion of His creation, when God will be “All in all”. But those He chooses to place in the body of Christ, the ecclesia, is known to Him alone. I don't have an answer to why He chooses some and not others at this time. But be assured, His ways are not our ways, but His plan to recocile all mankind to Himself, through Christ Jesus, He will complete.I hope this answers your questions.
Blessings.
Hi CO,
On what basis do you know the words above apply to you? Do you have the manifestations of the powers and fruits of the Spirit given as downpayment on salvation?You speak of God's choice but then imply all are chosen?
If all are not chosen again how do you know if you are or not?There seems to be conflict in these ideas.
Quote (chosenone @ May 24 2007,18:28) Hi 942767.
You ask on what basis God chose me to be part of the body of Christ. I had no choice, there was nothing that I could do to qualify myself. I was saved by the Grace of God. (Eph.2:8-10) “For in Grace, through faith (the faith of Christ Jesus), are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting. For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them”. You see, There is nothing that anyone can do to save themselves, “All is of God”. Keep this scripture in mind when studying Gods word, and all becomes clear when God, through His Holy Spirit, reveals Himself to you.
You also ask, …on what basis does He exclude those who are not chosen. God will have all saved at the “consummation”, the completion of His creation, when God will be “All in all”. But those He chooses to place in the body of Christ, the ecclesia, is known to Him alone. I don't have an answer to why He chooses some and not others at this time. But be assured, His ways are not our ways, but His plan to recocile all mankind to Himself, through Christ Jesus, He will complete.I hope this answers your questions.
Blessings.
Hi Chosenone:I know that these scriptures are in the gospels. Do they apply to all or just to the jews:
John
3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.John 6:64
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
6:65
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.Matt. 24:11
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
24:12
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.God Bless
Hi 942767.
Thank you for your questions. I don't pretend to be an expert on every scripture, I have an opinion like everyone else. I believe that the ancient scriptures are not about what God says we should be doing for salvation, they are saying what God is doing to save mankind.
In the old testament, and the four Gospels, He is showing that mankind is unable to earn his salvation, or in any way qualify for it. In Pauls epistles, whom Jesus comissioned to the nations, shows what God is doing to save mankind (His achievment are we. Eph.2:10)
I believe that the scriptures you quote are to the Jews, but they refer to future events when the nations are included, and a brief overview of events before the consummation. Again, this is my opinion, I am not infallible, just saved by the Grace of God.God Bless.
Quote (chosenone @ May 25 2007,18:26) Hi 942767.
Thank you for your questions. I don't pretend to be an expert on every scripture, I have an opinion like everyone else. I believe that the ancient scriptures are not about what God says we should be doing for salvation, they are saying what God is doing to save mankind.
In the old testament, and the four Gospels, He is showing that mankind is unable to earn his salvation, or in any way qualify for it. In Pauls epistles, whom Jesus comissioned to the nations, shows what God is doing to save mankind (His achievment are we. Eph.2:10)
I believe that the scriptures you quote are to the Jews, but they refer to future events when the nations are included, and a brief overview of events before the consummation. Again, this is my opinion, I am not infallible, just saved by the Grace of God.God Bless.
Hi Chosenone:By saying you are not infallible, you are admitting that you are capable of making mistakes or misinterpreting scripture, and to me that is good news that you would admit this as some will not admit that they make mistakes because of their pride.
I have been studying the scriptures for almost 27 years and I am still capable of making a mistake, and I have minisinterpreted some scriptures especially early in my walk with the Lord. God has had to correct me many a time, and I welcome His correction, and I feel that if he sees me doing something that is not right and He doesn't correct me, He really doesn't love me. And so, I welcome his correction.
Let me just give you my understanding of “Law” versus “grace”.
Under the Law when the people sinned, they offered up animal sacrifices to atone for their sins, and once a year on the day of atonement the high priest went into the Holy of holies into the presence of God to offer blood of animals for the atonement of his own sins and for the sins of the Nation of Israel. The blood of animals did not wash away the sins of the people. This blood was symbolic of the blood that was to be offered as a perfect sacrifice by our Lord Jesus, and so, the people had to offer blood for the same sins year after year plus for any new sins they had committed each year.
First, we are reconciled to God coming to him with a repentant heart believing the Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that God has raised him from the dead. It was not because of our goodness. It doesn't matter how good or how bad we have been prior to being reconciled to God. We were reconciled to Him because we believed God's testimony that He gave His Only Begotten Son as the propitiation for our sins and we accepted his free gift to us with a repentant heart.
When we confessed Jesus as our Lord, we indicated by that confession that we would strive to obey his commandments, but even in striving to obey we make mistakes, and when we make a mistake, we come to God asking Him for forgiveness and if we sin against some person we also try to make it right with that person. Grace means that we did not earn our salvation through perfect obedience to God's Law. I also means that when we make a mistake and come to God asking for forgiveness that our sin is washed away by the blood of Jesus and God does not remember that sin any more whereas under the Law the sin was remembered every year on the day of atonement. Jesus our High Priest has entered into the Holy of holies not in the tabernacle on earth but into the very presence of God in heaven and has offered one perfect sacrifice once and for all.And so, salvation is by faith so that it might be by grace whether it was for those under the Law of Moses (they did strive to obey the Law but they made mistakes and so they did not earn their salvation through perfect obedience to God's law) or whether it is under this era that we call grace (We are striving to obey God's Word, but we did not earn our salvation through perfect obedience to God's Word). Isn't it wonderful that if I make a mistake God will not condemn me. All I have to do is admit that I made the mistake and try to learn from it.
Rom. 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,Finally, it would be nice, if as you say, everyone will be saved at the consummantion, but unfortunately, the scripture shows that some will be cast into the lake of fire.
God Bless
Hi 94,
You say
“First, we are reconciled to God coming to him with a repentant heart believing the Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that God has raised him from the dead. It was not because of our goodness. It doesn't matter how good or how bad we have been prior to being reconciled to God. We were reconciled to Him because we believed God's testimony that He gave His Only Begotten Son as the propitiation for our sins and we accepted his free gift to us with a repentant heart.'
Is this what you believe is meant by being reborn from above?Hi,
Lk 15
” 11And he said, A certain man had two sons:12And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
21And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
22But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
25Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
26And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
27And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
28And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
29And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
30But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
31And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
32It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.”
I would have thought that all men were representd by the repentant prodigal son and the firstborn dependant on works and hoping to inherit as faithful Israel
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 28 2007,11:22) Hi 94,
You say
“First, we are reconciled to God coming to him with a repentant heart believing the Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that God has raised him from the dead. It was not because of our goodness. It doesn't matter how good or how bad we have been prior to being reconciled to God. We were reconciled to Him because we believed God's testimony that He gave His Only Begotten Son as the propitiation for our sins and we accepted his free gift to us with a repentant heart.'
Is this what you believe is meant by being reborn from above?
No Nick:I believe that you are born of living water when you believe the Word of God, and you are born of the Spirit when you receive the Holy Ghost.
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot * enter into the kingdom of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 28 2007,13:40) Hi 94,
An interesting take.
Does it align with what God showed us in Acts?
Hi Nick:I believe it does.
Hi 94,
Paul and the apostles rather seemed to place importance on repentance and water and Spirit baptism in Acts but they were decieved do you think?Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,13:07) Hi 94,
Paul and the apostles rather seemed to place importance on repentance and water and Spirit baptism in Acts but they were decieved do you think?
Hi Nick:We have already covered all of this ground, but to reiterate, we are saved by Faith but faith is not simply a mental assent but coming to God believing his testimony regarding what he has done for us through our Lord Jesus Christ and coming to him with a repentant heart. Water Baptism is an action showing that one has repented. All believers should be baptized.
Hi 94,
You say
“I believe that you are born of living water when you believe the Word of God, and you are born of the Spirit when you receive the Holy Ghost.”
Scripture rather says that the living water is the Holy Spirit baptism.
Jn 7
” 37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) “
So what you says is repetitive, adds “living” to water in Jn3, and denies the simpler meaning of water as baptism.
Is it the will of God for us to be baptized under the Matthew formula (I call it the Trinity formula) OR in the name of Jesus only? Just thought I would throw this in here somewhere and see what folks think.
Hi not3,
There is evidence form Eusebius that Matt 28 was altered and this fits with the fact that the apostles ONLY baptised in the name of Jesus. There are falsehoods introduced at every level of faith by the serpent.I've read that too. Do you think that if you were baptized under the Matt. formula that you should be re-baptized. Some people think you should.
OK, funny story here…..ready?
In March I sought out a Church of God Abrahamic Faith pastor to re-baptize me in the name of Jesus only (because they do not believe in the Trinity). We had our meetings and studies and he knew why I was being re-baptized (because I denounced the Trinity and was baptized under the Matt. formula). OK, so the day comes for my baptism (we had a few family/friends over and the pastor dunked me in our hot tub) and guess HOW he baptized me? Yep……using the formula from Matthew! I couldn't believe it! Even while I was under the water, I was thinking, “Did I hear him right?” Of course no one noticed because baptisms are like weddings – everyone is emotional and no on noticed what the pastor said. Ha. Anyway, a few days later when I got up enough courage, I called him and asked him WHY he baptized me that way when we had talked about why I was being re-baptized…….his only answer was that he didn't see anything wrong with the Matt formula and that is how he baptises everyone in his fellowship. Good grief.
So, do you think one should be re-re-RE-baptized? Ha! I'm sort-of of the feeling that God knows my heart and I don't need to do it again. On the other hand, I could just have my husband dunk me, huh? Good grief, again.
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