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Quote (Tim2 @ April 06 2007,01:04) Ken, They do believe He is the Son. They confess this in the Nicene Creed every Sunday.
Tim
Yes they say he is the son, then they say that he is the God that he is the son of.So the second one cancels out the first one.
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Tim, do you believe that the only true God SENT Jesus, or do you believe that Jesus is the only true God?
Hi t8,
We confess that Jesus Christ is the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of Very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father.
That He is “God of God” follows the general principle that man begets man, dog begets dog, and “X begets X,” not, as most people here seem to think, “X begets Y.”
That Jesus and the Father share the same substance does not mean that Jesus is the Father, but that they share the same substance, wholly and without division. Hence, they are the same being, the same God, but two different persons.
So when the Bible says, “Son of God,” it means “Son of the Father” because the Father is God. It is not a denial that Jesus is God any more than calling Him the Son of Man is a denial that He is man. Fathers and sons in creation share the same nature but are not the same being because this is impossible in creation (except, perhaps, when a man and woman become one flesh as in Genesis 2:24, the same “one” as in Deuteronomy 6:4, but even then, the man and woman are still each part of the flesh). However, we ought not to think that it is impossible for God to have this kind of unity, as Jesus says, He and the Father are one.
With regard to the sending of Jesus, it is no argument to say that the Father sent Him, because whatever the Father does, the Son does also. So Jesus sent Himself as well as being sent by the Father. And we have to keep in mind that Jesus voluntarily emptied Himself of his equality with the Father, as in Philippians 2:6-7. So, taking the form of a servant, a man, Jesus is inferior to the Father with respect to His manhood, as the Athanasian Creed says, and obeys the Father as a man.
Tim
Hi Tim2,
So you do recognise that catholicism teaches from a basis of philosophy and greek logic rather than relying on scripture alone?
Do you have that much faith in that leadership that you would slip the hand of the Master?Quote (Tim2 @ April 07 2007,06:38) Hi t8, We confess that Jesus Christ is the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of Very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father.
That He is “God of God” follows the general principle that man begets man, dog begets dog, and “X begets X,” not, as most people here seem to think, “X begets Y.”
That Jesus and the Father share the same substance does not mean that Jesus is the Father, but that they share the same substance, wholly and without division. Hence, they are the same being, the same God, but two different persons.
So when the Bible says, “Son of God,” it means “Son of the Father” because the Father is God. It is not a denial that Jesus is God any more than calling Him the Son of Man is a denial that He is man. Fathers and sons in creation share the same nature but are not the same being because this is impossible in creation (except, perhaps, when a man and woman become one flesh as in Genesis 2:24, the same “one” as in Deuteronomy 6:4, but even then, the man and woman are still each part of the flesh). However, we ought not to think that it is impossible for God to have this kind of unity, as Jesus says, He and the Father are one.
With regard to the sending of Jesus, it is no argument to say that the Father sent Him, because whatever the Father does, the Son does also. So Jesus sent Himself as well as being sent by the Father. And we have to keep in mind that Jesus voluntarily emptied Himself of his equality with the Father, as in Philippians 2:6-7. So, taking the form of a servant, a man, Jesus is inferior to the Father with respect to His manhood, as the Athanasian Creed says, and obeys the Father as a man.
Tim
Hi Tim 2,
So when Jesus is called the Son of God it is one of those many many times that “God” actually means the Father God and not the trinity God.Does God in scripture EVER mean the trinity God or is the concept an unnecessary appendage to truth?
Perhaps God actually is the Father?
Hi Nick,
God means the Trinity in Genesis 1:1.
God is the Father. He's also the Son and the Spirit (John 20:28, Acts 5:4).
Tim
Hi Tim 2,
So in the whole bible only once does God refer to themselves as a trinity?
Yet this is your most important and basic doctrine that you say our salvation depends on?
Is that fair?Gen 1
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.So where does this solitary verse showing God as a trinity give us that information?
If this is the only such verse don't tell me we have to read between the lines here too?Hi Nick,
You asked me for verse where “God” refers to the whole Trinity. Genesis 1 is such a verse. I'd say most of the OT mentioning of God or YHWH refers to the whole Trinity because the persons are not clearly distinguished. In the NT, the persons are distinguished. That's the difference between the Testaments. The OT shows the unity of God, the NT His plurality.
Tim
Hi Nick,
God is one. I believe the Hebrew word in Deut. 6:4 is “echad.” This is the same word in Genesis 2:24, “they shall become one flesh.” There we see two persons who are one flesh. Where else have we been seeing this idea of “multiple persons, one being,” … hmmmmm ….
Tim
Quote (Tim2 @ April 07 2007,07:40) Hi Nick, God is one. I believe the Hebrew word in Deut. 6:4 is “echad.” This is the same word in Genesis 2:24, “they shall become one flesh.” There we see two persons who are one flesh. Where else have we been seeing this idea of “multiple persons, one being,” … hmmmmm ….
Tim
Hi Tim 2,
God is one and that God has a son.
So what other examples were you referring to?Hi Nick,
God is one, and He exists in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I've already shown you that each of them is God, and that they are one God.
God created man in the image of God. In the image of He created him. Male and female He created them. The man and the woman become one flesh. Two persons (actually three if you consider the child that is conceived). One flesh. The image of three persons who are one God.
Tim
Hi Tim 2,
Are we meant to assemble different scriptures and add them to one another to find true doctrines?
I thought we were meant to find truth written and then find supporting verses?Quote (Tim2 @ April 07 2007,09:28) Hi Nick, God is one, and He exists in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I've already shown you that each of them is God, and that they are one God.
God created man in the image of God. In the image of He created him. Male and female He created them. The man and the woman become one flesh. Two persons (actually three if you consider the child that is conceived). One flesh. The image of three persons who are one God.
Tim
Hi Tim 2,
Man and woman become one.Mk 8
“AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh.Is that what you mean?
The Father and the Son
TWO
became one?Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 07 2007,09:46) Quote (Tim2 @ April 07 2007,09:28) Hi Nick, God is one, and He exists in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I've already shown you that each of them is God, and that they are one God.
God created man in the image of God. In the image of He created him. Male and female He created them. The man and the woman become one flesh. Two persons (actually three if you consider the child that is conceived). One flesh. The image of three persons who are one God.
Tim
Hi Tim 2,
Man and woman become one.Mk 8
“AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh.Is that what you mean?
The Father and the Son
TWO
became one?
Excuse me are we still on the whore of babylon?
Hi,
The trinity theory is the major false doctrine of the whore.
And the whore is in big trouble with God.
Come out of her.Quote (TimothyVI @ April 07 2007,23:09) Virtually every thread eventually turns into a trinity thread. Tim
Yeah I noticed but If I or someone else should mention another subject even if it relates to the main subject, if it's not the Trinity then LOOK OUT! You get there are threads already for that. Please search and use that thread. Then they continue to do their Trinity thing even though they are speaking to the same people for the last millennia and continue to quote the same scriptures. There are only so many scriptures in the bible.If somone new should come along then fine explain the scriptures then shake the dust off your feet. Truth is this site would not be much without the Trinity doctrine. The proof are in the posts and not just those in the Trinity thread
You want to laugh put a topic tracker on the Trinity
What are the doctrine of the Harlot?
They walk in long robes.
Luk 20:46 Beware of the scribes who desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the first seats in the synagogues, and the chief places at the feasts;They use prayer beads and vain repetitions.
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.They call their clergy father.
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.Graven images, light candles, believe they turn bread and wine to body and blood of Christ.
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.They changed the law of God.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.They declared Jesus is not the Christ by teaching their false doctrine that Jesus was resurrected on Sunday.
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
Mat 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said.That's enough for me!
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.If you keep her false doctrines then you are in her. The end time message is to deny her doctrines and worship in Spirit and Truth.
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