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Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 27 2009,12:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2009,14:16) Hi LU,
Do you take this to mean we should worship two gods?
Hi Nick,
If we worship the Son are we not worshipping the Father also? We cannot worship the one without the other, they are the saving Godhead, the Most High God and His Son (the begotten God). The Most High God does not save us apart from His Son. The Son does nothing apart from the Father. We worship them both. IMO
LU
Hi LU,
There is the vessel and the contents.
True worshipers worship the Father[jn4]Lightenup(Kathi)
Quote I just don't think you are getting my mindset.
That may be so since I can only go by the way I interpret your words but we communicate so you and I can straighten up any misconceptions that may occur.
Lightenup(Kathi)
Quote If we worship the Son are we not worshipping the Father also? We cannot worship the one without the other, they are the saving Godhead, the Most High God and His Son (the begotten God). The Most High God does not save us apart from His Son. The Son does nothing apart from the Father. We worship them both. IMO
I hear your argument but am not really sure what you refer to as the “Godhead”. In Judaism for instance “Godhead” refers to the unknowable aspect of God which lies behind his actions and since a large number of writers of scripture are Jews that would most likely be their way of looking at it. You on the other hand do not seem to using it that way. If I were to speculate you are labeling the concept that Jesus and God are in those that believe and that those that believe are in Jesus and God just like Jesus is in God and God is in Jesus, as the Godhead. Scripture actually calls that the unity of the Spirit and not Godhead but you definition is acceptable as long as you make it clear to your listeners. Concluding that I must ask, “Do you think that by worshiping one another the believers would be worshipping God?”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2009,21:21) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 27 2009,12:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2009,14:16) Hi LU,
Do you take this to mean we should worship two gods?
Hi Nick,
If we worship the Son are we not worshipping the Father also? We cannot worship the one without the other, they are the saving Godhead, the Most High God and His Son (the begotten God). The Most High God does not save us apart from His Son. The Son does nothing apart from the Father. We worship them both. IMO
LU
Hi LU,
There is the vessel and the contents.
True worshipers worship the Father[jn4]
Hi Nick,
If you want to worship the Father, then do what He says. He says “Let all the angels worship Him (the Son).” What do you think the angels worship Him as? I think they worship Him as God over this realm which they exist in, the realm of heaven and earth. The Father is the Most High God, the God over every realm.You are right Nick, the Son is a vessel, a holy vessel who carries the nature of God Himself since He is the Son of God (born of God not created of God). He was set apart to do God's work within our realm, and was eventually exalted over that work to rule forever. He did the Father's work while He laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, He also did His Father's work during the Old Testament period, yet His full identity was hidden, then He became flesh to accomplish His Father's work on earth. While on earth, He gave testimony of His Father and the Father gave testimony of His Son. After His death on the cross, the Father exalted Him above the angels (the angels that He helped create) and even has the angels worshipping Him at that point on. This is how I am understanding it anyway.
LU
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 27 2009,00:44) Lightenup(Kathi) Quote I just don't think you are getting my mindset.
That may be so since I can only go by the way I interpret your words but we communicate so you and I can straighten up any misconceptions that may occur.
Lightenup(Kathi)
Quote If we worship the Son are we not worshipping the Father also? We cannot worship the one without the other, they are the saving Godhead, the Most High God and His Son (the begotten God). The Most High God does not save us apart from His Son. The Son does nothing apart from the Father. We worship them both. IMO
I hear your argument but am not really sure what you refer to as the “Godhead”. In Judaism for instance “Godhead” refers to the unknowable aspect of God which lies behind his actions and since a large number of writers of scripture are Jews that would most likely be their way of looking at it. You on the other hand do not seem to using it that way. If I were to speculate you are labeling the concept that Jesus and God are in those that believe and that those that believe are in Jesus and God just like Jesus is in God and God is in Jesus, as the Godhead. Scripture actually calls that the unity of the Spirit and not Godhead but you definition is acceptable as long as you make it clear to your listeners. Concluding that I must ask, “Do you think that by worshiping one another the believers would be worshipping God?”
Hi Kerwin,
Thank you for trying to understand me. We are limited to this posting realm. Let's do coffee and we could accomplish much more in the way of sharing our beliefs
This forum does give us great opportunity to develop communication skills through written words but there is a fullness of communication that is missing.You ask if we worship one another, are we worshipping God. I do not think that we are to worship one another. We are to love and serve one another, equip one another towards a true worship of the Father and Son and as we do that we are worshipping God.
You are correct when you say that I have a different meaning of Godhead than what you say the Jews had. What I mean as Godhead is …probably more like God, Inc. Ya know, God incorporated, the Father and Son now run God, Inc. and the angels and us as believers (and followers) are the shareholders. Before the Son's victory the Son wasn't part of running the corporation yet He helped build it and worked within it for His Father. Now, since His victory on the cross, He is running it with and under His Father. The Father and Son are not equal, yet united in love and purpose in running God, Inc. The Father is still in the highest position. I do not believe that the Father and Son will ever disagree since the Son is perfect and always does and will always do the will of His Father.
So, maybe I have started a new term here with “God, Inc.” When we have the Father and the Son, we have the CEO and the COO, chief executive officer and the chief operating officer. They in unity rule God, Inc. The Holy Spirit is in one sense, the original “wireless communications” between the two, originating from within the Father and extending to the Son and then to the rest of us. I hope you see this as merely an analogy and not a doctrine. These are just some thoughts from someone made from dust. Who can grasp the mind of God???
To sum up, I believe we are to worship the rulers of God, Inc. The Father and the Son. We are not to worship the shareholders (the angels and each other).
Let us care for one another,
LUI agree with Kathi, the Son is not equal to the Father but I believe scripture is clear the Father has given Jesuis all power in this corporeal realm which when all things are complete He submits back to the Father.
Ephesians 1:21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.
1 Corinthians 15:27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[a] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
The Son proceeds from the Father, while we were created and are reconciled back to the Father.
My opinion Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Mar. 27 2009,09:21) I agree with Kathi, the Son is not equal to the Father but I believe scripture is clear the Father has given Jesuis all power in this corporeal realm which when all things are complete He submits back to the Father. Ephesians 1:21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.
1 Corinthians 15:27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[a] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
The Son proceeds from the Father, while we were created and are reconciled back to the Father.
My opinion Wm
Hi William,
Nice to hear from you here. Thank you for your encouragement
It is nice to be on the same page, even more than nice, it is peace and joy!Love,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2009,01:28) Quote (seekingtruth @ Mar. 27 2009,09:21) I agree with Kathi, the Son is not equal to the Father but I believe scripture is clear the Father has given Jesuis all power in this corporeal realm which when all things are complete He submits back to the Father. Ephesians 1:21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.
1 Corinthians 15:27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[a] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
The Son proceeds from the Father, while we were created and are reconciled back to the Father.
My opinion Wm
Hi William,
Nice to hear from you here. Thank you for your encouragement
It is nice to be on the same page, even more than nice, it is peace and joy!Love,
Kathi
I believe that there are more then one person that are under the Blood of Christ.
Luke 22:20 the New Covenant.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of ourselves,it is a free gift from God.
God the Father has given us to Christ and Christ is commissioned not to loose us. You are so right in many ways. The Father has and is always above all things, tho.
Peace and Love IreneHi LU,
Yep you are way out in left field with this one“You are correct when you say that I have a different meaning of Godhead than what you say the Jews had. What I mean as Godhead is …probably more like God, Inc. Ya know, God incorporated, the Father and Son now run God, Inc. and the angels and us as believers (and followers) are the shareholders. “
We had someone offer a few years ago that when you prayed you got through to whichever member of their imagined trinity was free at the time. It is safer to stay within what is written as the imaginative speculations of men are manifestly myriad and mad.
Hi Nick,
I know that I was letting the creative juices flow but I don't think the analogy is without merit.I have another analogy, remember this is not doctrine but an analogy. Don't get the two confused.
I just bought a new MacBook Pro for my work and for fun yesterday. It has prompted this analogy:
God is like the MacBook Pro
The Son is like the Web server
The Holy Spirit is the wireless connections communicating between the MacBook Pro through the Web server and us…just plain old IBM computers.Ok Nick, enough analogies…don't ride off on Silver. I'm just lightening things up for a couple of posts here. BTW, as a new convert to Apple products, I can see why they are more expensive, they are just plain smarter.
LUHi lU,
Since the Jordan the Son is forever in unity with God by the Spirit.
He will return and God will rule with and through him.
Ps2Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2009,16:18) Hi lU,
Since the Jordan the Son is forever in unity with God by the Spirit.
He will return and God will rule with and through him.
Ps2
Hi nICK,
So the Son was not in unity with His Father before the Jordan…can you show us where this is written? He knew who His Father was before the Jordan. I think the Son was always the perfect, holy Son and always in unity with His Father. There is no evidence of disunity, only immaturity as He was a child growing in wisdom towards maturity.LU
Hi LU,
He agreed to come submitting to the will of the Father so they had the unity that a faithful servant has with his Lord.But from the Jordan he was endowed with the Spirit of God empowering him to will and to do,
Hi LU,
Submission to a greater Being brings unity of purpose.
But after the Jordan he was able to be led by the Spirit.Now they are completely one in the Spirit.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2009,03:18) Hi lU,
Since the Jordan the Son is forever in unity with God by the Spirit.
He will return and God will rule with and through him.
Ps2
Do you have any evidence to back up that assumption?Quote (kerwin @ July 17 2009,18:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2009,03:18) Hi lU,
Since the Jordan the Son is forever in unity with God by the Spirit.
He will return and God will rule with and through him.
Ps2
Do you have any evidence to back up that assumption?
Hi kerwinOf course he doesn't, but you have to understand that this is Nick.
He can make assumptions while he jumps all over everyone else if they dare to do so!
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 18 2009,11:17) Quote (kerwin @ July 17 2009,18:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2009,03:18) Hi lU,
Since the Jordan the Son is forever in unity with God by the Spirit.
He will return and God will rule with and through him.
Ps2
Do you have any evidence to back up that assumption?
Hi kerwinOf course he doesn't, but you have to understand that this is Nick.
He can make assumptions while he jumps all over everyone else if they dare to do so!
Blessings WJ
Nick says that inference has no place with the sacred. Yet he engages in a lot of inference.thinker
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