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Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2008,06:38) In light of the conversation surrounding Jesus previous “glory”, I got to thinking about his sacrifice and what it truly meant if he was only returning to the glory he gave up. Would the sacrifice really be a sacrifice? Or just a temporary inconvenience?
Hi Mandy,
Wonderful, this is what I was questioning T8 in “preexistence” thread.Hi not3,
Your own death will be a temporary inconvenience too?
You will not be tortured or crucified though.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2008,14:42) Hi not3,
Your own death will be a temporary inconvenience too?
You will not be tortured or crucified though.
Perhaps.But there are those who have been tortured…..
There are two points of interest here as far as I can see; one, what did Jesus truly sacrifice? And two, if he was indeed aware of his past life and knew glory and exhaultation was in his future – what was the risk that you were talkint about? Thanks, Mandy
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2008,17:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2008,14:42) Hi not3,
Your own death will be a temporary inconvenience too?
You will not be tortured or crucified though.
Perhaps.But there are those who have been tortured…..
There are two points of interest here as far as I can see; one, what did Jesus truly sacrifice? And two, if he was indeed aware of his past life and knew glory and exhaultation was in his future – what was the risk that you were talkint about? Thanks, Mandy
I think the question is not what did Jesus sacrifice..but what did His father sacrifice?don't think in terms of trinity..thats not what I am getting at
Think more on the lines of Abraham and Issac
I think your eyes will open a little more…mine sure did
To say that God foreordained Jesus from the founding of the world..like you and Gene suggest…is to say God pre planned what we see today..Good and Bad…that would make him a sharer in the badness..But we can not “Try God with evil” according to the bible..
So simply put…I can not agree with your theology..because is Love and evil does ORIGINATE with him
Come on my brother, see the scriptures for your self, God creates both light and darkness and make peace and create evil and he does all(Is 45:5-7)
“I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known me; that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me: I am Jehovah, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, who does all these things.”
Do you think the one who created the tree of good and evil is not God?
You need not agree with me or Gene, you should study the word of God properly before you throw mud on some brother.
peace to you
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ June 20 2008,04:14) Come on my brother, see the scriptures for your self, God creates both light and darkness and make peace and create evil and he does all(Is 45:5-7) “I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known me; that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me: I am Jehovah, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, who does all these things.”
Do you think the one who created the tree of good and evil is not God?
You need not agree with me or Gene, you should study the word of God properly before you throw mud on some brother.
peace to you
Adam
Not throwing mud…calling other peoples way of believing “false” is throwing mud…those are things I noticed people around here have a tendacy to do..I may have even been guilty at times…Lemme ask a couple questions….Name 1 thing you disagree with Gene on?
And is there any other interpretation to that scripture at Isa 45?
isaiah 45:5-7…lemme explain this scripture to you
'Evil,' as used here, refers to evil of a physical nature (storms), not moral evil.
Contextually, this verse is dealing with natural disasters, and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil; rather, it is dealing with calamity, distress, etc. This is consistent with other scriptures. For example,
“And the Lord said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes him dumb or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?” (Exodus 4:11).
“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?” (Amos 3:6).From the above two verses we can see that the Lord is involved in calamity and problems in the earthly realm. Exodus 4:11 is speaking of human frailty and Amos 3:6 is speaking of woes in a city. It is not a moral evil that God brings, but calamity and distress upon people.
Of course, this raises other questions of why God would do such a thing, which I won't cover here. But, we can trust that whatever God does is just and is used for teaching, guiding, and disciplining His people.
Third, there are other verses that clearly show that God is pure and that He cannot approve of evil.
“The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; a God of faithfulness and without injustice, righteous and upright is He,” (Deut. 32:4).
“Thine eyes are too pure to approve evil, and Thou canst not look on wickedness with favor,” (Hab. 1:13).We can see that the Bible teaches that God is pure and does not approve of evil, that the word “rah” (evil) in Hebrew can mean many things, and that contextually, the verse is speaking calamity and distress. Therefore, God does not create evil in the moral sense, but in the sense of disaster, of calamity.
Find your nearest concordance and interlinear..for PROOF of what I just wrote
Here you go just for reference:
niv- 7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.amplified- 7I form the light and create darkness, I make peace [national well-being] and I create [physical] [a]evil (calamity); I am the Lord, Who does all these things.
youngs- 7Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.
Holman cs- 7 I form light and create darkness, (D)
I make success and create disaster; (E)
I, the LORD, do all these things.new life- 7 I make light and I make darkness. I bring good and I make trouble. I am the Lord Who does all these things.
cev 7I create light and darkness,
happiness and sorrow.
I, the LORD, do all of this.
ncv- 7 I made the light and the darkness.
I bring peace, and I cause troubles.
I, the Lord, do all these things.GM..brother..
the best way to translate the hebrew word used in Isa 45 into english is…”calamity” or “disaster”
Gives that scripture a whole different meaning doesn't it…
THink for yourself my brother…
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2008,17:47) HI not3,
Without faith who takes such risks?
Please identify the risk, thank you.Quote (dirtyknections @ June 20 2008,03:06) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2008,17:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2008,14:42) Hi not3,
Your own death will be a temporary inconvenience too?
You will not be tortured or crucified though.
Perhaps.But there are those who have been tortured…..
There are two points of interest here as far as I can see; one, what did Jesus truly sacrifice? And two, if he was indeed aware of his past life and knew glory and exhaultation was in his future – what was the risk that you were talkint about? Thanks, Mandy
I think the question is not what did Jesus sacrifice..but what did His father sacrifice?don't think in terms of trinity..thats not what I am getting at
Think more on the lines of Abraham and Issac
I think your eyes will open a little more…mine sure did
DK,What in your opinion did Jesus truly sacrifice?
Hi DK,
Do you mean Jesus was not tempted of sin,bad or evil like us? What do you mean by God's plans for sending Jesus His son not to be tempted of sin?
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