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Hi not3,
So it took no faith to give up his own life on the promise of life in the Spirit of the Father?I wouldn't say it took no faith, however Paul tells us that we hope for what we do not have. If Jesus already had the literal glory in a preexistent life, and then knew he would have it again…….I would think that would require very little faith.
Hi not3,
Knew?
It takes faith to grasp it and act on that information.
Would you die today if it was asked of you since you have the same information he had?If I knew that I existed with God and had glory and it was promised to me AGAIN after I died……..where do I sign up?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2008,08:41) Would you die today if it was asked of you since you have the same information he had?
He had food to eat that we know nothing about.If indeed this preexistent status is true, then I'm sure he was aware of it. What about all those scriptures that t8 quotes like, “Before Abraham, I AM” and so on. Those all speak of a Jesus who KNEW that he had glory beforehand…..
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2008,08:42) If I knew that I existed with God and had glory and it was promised to me AGAIN after I died……..where do I sign up?
Hi not3,
So you are a gambler?
He had far more than you have, he gave it up to become a poor and despised man, knew he would be hated and murdered on the basis of a promise he agreed.For those that are intersted, this is a good thread and it doesn't take that long to read through it. I believe it promotes some good ideas surrounding preexistence. It's one of those threads like, Conception, that I feel go hand-in-hand with the preexistent idea.
Thanks for the short chat Nick. In reviewing this thread, it looks like we've had it more than once!
Take care,
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2008,08:56) When you KNOW, you are not gambling.
It's a sure thing.
Hio not3,
Can you know by your own lights or do you need the grace of faith?Hi not3,
Were you there?
No being had been offered such a risky propsal before as far as we know.
He had submissive faith huge enough to believe in our God whereas one third of the angels chose another god.Hi not3,
Were you there?
No being had been offered such a risky proposal before as far as we know.
He had submissive faith huge enough to believe in our God whereas one third of the angels chose another god.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2008,10:25) Hi not3,
Were you there?
No being had been offered such a risky proposal before as far as we know.
He had submissive faith huge enough to believe in our God whereas one third of the angels chose another god.
No other “angels” (was this a slip of the tongue or do you believe Jesus was a preexistent angel?) were given the supposed proposal, if I'm following your theology correctly? The only begotten of the Father received this opportunity.What risk? There was no risk. What could have possibly been the risk – God not keeping a promise? No, no, of course not this would be impossible!
According to the theory, the preexisent Son (angel, light, spirit son, word, logos – whatever) agreed to come and accepted the mission of the second Adam. According to some, Jesus knew of his previous glory and that he asked for it to be returned to him……….
No risk. This sounds pretty much like a guarantee to me?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2008,09:47) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 19 2008,08:56) When you KNOW, you are not gambling.
It's a sure thing.
Hio not3,
Can you know by your own lights or do you need the grace of faith?
The preexistent Jesus didn't need grace or faith.The phyiscally living Jesus didn't need grace either because he never sinned. His need for faith is still up for debate.
Hi not3,
Did not need faith? Why?
What use is any decision without faith?
Jesus did not need faith in the Garden or on the cross?
So what of other heavenly beings.
Do they need faith?It seems one thrid of the angels went against faith in God.
Hi not3,
He seemed to be full of grace.
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.Quote (Not3in1 @ July 16 2007,14:52) What a great topic! I have often thought, as I am conversing with Nick/t8 about preexistence – what was the sacrifice of a spirit-son who had been with the Father already, and who had known glory but decided to “empty” himself and become a commoner (for a period of time), and then go back up to his former glory? Sacrifice? Hmmmmmm
IMO – Jesus gave up his life. My children have asked me, “Mommy, why do people have to die?” And something I once heard provided the quick answer, I said, “To make life more special.”
A true sacrifice is that Jesus gave up his life. His life. What could his LIFE have looked like if he didn't go to the cross? Could Jesus have done any of the following:
1. Get married
2. Move out of Nazareth and buy a house in the burbs
3. Have children
4. Die a “normal” deathIf not, his “life” was not the sacrifice. So, what was the sacrifice?
I posted the above almost a year ago…..I still don't fully understand what the “sacrifice” was. Did he truly give up a life? Or was he only in a body-prepared-for-sacrifce as some teach here? Some sacrifice….
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2008,11:26) Hi not3,
He seemed to be full of grace.
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Yes, full of grace that he extended to each one of us.But was he in need of grace….two differenct conditions, imo.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2008,11:27) Hi not3,
How can a weak man not sin except by grace?
He was made perfect.
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