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Hi h,
Studying Revelation is like trying to solve a cryptic crossword as God has mixed up all the clues and you have to think outside of the square.Malcolm listed a site where supposably one of the two witnesses of Revelation is said to have a website. I visited the site and this fellow does claim that Nuclear war will start tomorrow on Sept. 12, 2006. Now, I believe the Lord has given me more then my share of things to test the spirit, so I had to write the guy and give him the litmus test. I will let you know if he writes back. I also asked a few other questions. If he is who he claims to be, he will have no problem in answering the questions given, being that they come from the unction of the Holy Spirit. I wrote yesterday, and as of yet, I have had no response. I do not expect one.
I don't find his site credible. If anything and if by chance there would be a nuclear attack by Iran tomorrow, I believe the chances are better this man is a Jewish Zealout who is working behind the scenes to usher in the third world war. For just as there are extremist moslems, there are extemist Jews who believe that to bring about the time of the messiah's coming is to bring about a Holy war. So be careful of the false prophets in the world today. For there are many. Here is the web link if anyone is interested in going to it and reading. It has nothing to verify his stand in the faith and that in itself is suspecious. For if he was a witness of God, he would have a witness of his stand in the faith.
I have read some of the things this man has on his site and what he does have that refers to with scripture seems all to pertain to trying to understand scripture, not through spiritual eyes, but fleshly eyes. Yet, as you said Nick, tomorrow is not to far away. Morning news for us. By that time, most likely, if anything is to happen, it will have already have happened.
Hi H,
He thinks that time, times and half a time is fouteen years. It is three and a half so do not hide in the bomb shelter just yet.“Daniyl 12 where he said it would be for a time, times and the divided time, which means altogether fourteen years.”
LOL. I don't worry about hiding in any shelters Nick. I have the arms of my saviour and my God to hold me. That is all the shelter I will ever need.
The truth is that we do not know who the two witnesses are because God has not revealed this to us at this point in time. They appear to be two highly anointed men. God does not give this kind of anointing to just anyone. They also are teaching the Word of God in truth because God is confirming their testimony with miracles and signs and wonders as He did in the ministry of our Lord Jesus and of the Apostles. They do appear to be part of the sixth trumpet of the seven trumpets. If my understanding of the scriptures is correct, these trumpets are judgments from God mingled with mercy. When these two witnesses are raised from the dead and taken into heaven, Rev. 11:13 states that there was a great earthquake where 7000 (symbolic, perhaps) were killed, but apparently, there were some saved because the rest of verse states, “and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven”. Our wonderful God is doing all that He possibly can to save every individual through their testimony and through their resurrection. He does not want to destroy anyone if at all possible.
I would like to make just one more observation relative to the two witnesses, but this in conjunction to my understanding of the end time events which are as follow: God through Ezekiel 38 & 39 shows 3 nations by name, Iran, Ethiopia (Sudan), and Libya, and others with them coming against Israel, which is the nation of Israel, and the Israel of God (the Christian church), and Zechariah 14 shows all nations being gathered against Jerusalem. The interpretation of the word Jersusalem is “teaching of peace”. We the Christian church, New Jerusalem, are teaching peace with God through our Lord Jesus, God's Son and His Christ. At some point, God will intervene sending judgment against those coming against His people. (Ezekiel 38:17-23, 39:1-6, Zechariah 14:3,12)
After God brings this judgment, there will be a 7 year peace accord with the nation of Israel. The temple will be rebuilt and the Jews who do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah will begin offering animal sacrifices. In the middle of this 7 year period or 3 1/2 years from the onset of the seven year peace accord, the Anti-christ will stop them from offering these sacrifices. (Daniel 9:27) During the next 42 months the Anti-christ will rise to power. (Rev. 11:2) The two witness will also prophesy during this 42 month period. At the end of this 42 month period or 1290 days from the Anti-christ stops the Jews from offering animal sacrifices, he will set himself up in the temple showing himself to be God. (Daniel 12:11, Matthew 24:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) This is the onset of the great tribulation. (Matthew 24:15-28, Daniel 12:1) Approximately 45 days from this time, the rapture will occur. (Daniel 12:11-12, Matthew 24:29-31) During this 45 day period no one will be able to buy, sell or trade in the market-place. (Rev. 13:17) Those that don't know the Word of God will worship the Anti-christ and receive their judgment according to their works by the seven last plagues. (Rev. 16)
Dear 942767,
I believe that the events that will usher in the antichrist and give him his rise to power will be his taking credit for the fulfilment of (Ezekiel 38:17-23, 39:1-6, Zechariah 14:3,12). I believe that the world will be shaken to their very souls and that it will be at this time, the antichrist will come with much flattery and deception to deceive the world into believing that he is the salvation from complete and total destruction by nuclear war. In other words, what looks like the war that is going to end all wars will be prevented by the antichrist and he will make a seven year peace agreement with Israel.
The interesting thing to remember is that something must happen to cause Russia, to come and attack Israel. I believe it has to do with Iran and the treaty Iran has with Russia. It is possible that either Iran do something that will cause Israel to attack and detonate a nuclear weapon in Iran or maybe even an attack by Israel on Russia because of her making Iran a nuclear threat. Yet, if this were to happen, it would most likely be because Iran has detonated a weapon of mass destruction in Israel and Israel has destroyed Iran.
I personally don't believe that Israel will attack Russia, but I do believe that if Iran were to detonate a nuclear weapon in Israel, that Israel would destroy Iran completely and that in itself could be enough to cause Russia to attack Israel.
As for the witnesses, I am not convinced that your stand on the time frame of the witnesses is correct. I believe that they will be witnessing the first half of the tribulation period. The second half of the tribulation is the judgement of God.
As for using 2 Thess. 2, it is not speaking of the antichrist, but the son of perdition, the creation of the man of sin. This scripture tells of how a man of sin came about. It is not referring to one person, but many. Verse eleven verifies that it is not speaking of one, but many. Please read the son of perdition post.
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 12 2006,02:48) I would like to make just one more observation relative to the two witnesses, but this in conjunction to my understanding of the end time events which are as follow: God through Ezekiel 38 & 39 shows 3 nations by name, Iran, Ethiopia (Sudan), and Libya, and others with them coming against Israel, which is the nation of Israel, and the Israel of God (the Christian church), and Zechariah 14 shows all nations being gathered against Jerusalem. The interpretation of the word Jersusalem is “teaching of peace”. We the Christian church, New Jerusalem, are teaching peace with God through our Lord Jesus, God's Son and His Christ. At some point, God will intervene sending judgment against those coming against His people. (Ezekiel 38:17-23, 39:1-6, Zechariah 14:3,12) After God brings this judgment, there will be a 7 year peace accord with the nation of Israel. The temple will be rebuilt and the Jews who do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah will begin offering animal sacrifices. In the middle of this 7 year period or 3 1/2 years from the onset of the seven year peace accord, the Anti-christ will stop them from offering these sacrifices. (Daniel 9:27) During the next 42 months the Anti-christ will rise to power. (Rev. 11:2) The two witness will also prophesy during this 42 month period. At the end of this 42 month period or 1290 days from the Anti-christ stops the Jews from offering animal sacrifices, he will set himself up in the temple showing himself to be God. (Daniel 12:11, Matthew 24:15, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) This is the onset of the great tribulation. (Matthew 24:15-28, Daniel 12:1) Approximately 45 days from this time, the rapture will occur. (Daniel 12:11-12, Matthew 24:29-31) During this 45 day period no one will be able to buy, sell or trade in the market-place. (Rev. 13:17) Those that don't know the Word of God will worship the Anti-christ and receive their judgment according to their works by the seven last plagues. (Rev. 16)
Hi 92,
Good post.
But I am yet to be convinced it is men the bible speaks of as the two witnesses.Hi Nick and Everyone…
I have briefly read this thread and I have no clue in understanding Revelations yet but Im trying to comprehend the posts that have been posted here.
I remember posting in another thread about 2 OT prophets that claim to be here now.. and they are Jah (Elijah) and Edward (Enoch).
Now I am not completely sure on those two
However I have found this person who claims he is one of the Witnesses and he has written a couple of books. Free for all to read. He claims the second witness will come during the tribulation I think. I could be wrong.
If you're interested.
Hugs
PhoenixPS: he also helps explain Revelations. I am not 100% sure on this but I have only found this tonight and have saved both books to desktop so I will be reading them till I find something I dont like.
I agree with Nick I too am not sure that the two witnesses are human. Some say the two witnesses are the Old and New Testament.
The Law that Jesus fulfilled.
Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of Jehovah your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
The New Testament the rejection of Christ.
Mar 14:57 And there stood up certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,
But I'm not sure. Can anyone say they are sure and why?
Ok I dont know if youre gonna believe this but according to Ronald Weinland the scripture Mt 17:11 did not apply to John the Baptist
*sigh* He thinks Elijah came through a guy named Herbert W Armstrong. This is his reason…. “Nothing was restored through John the Baptist”Matthew 17:11
11Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things”Thats all I have found out so far
But still it doesnt match the 3 and a half years. *sigh*
Im still reading though
Hugs
PhoenixQuote (Phoenix @ Feb. 24 2007,14:06) Ok I dont know if youre gonna believe this but according to Ronald Weinland the scripture Mt 17:11 did not apply to John the Baptist *sigh* He thinks Elijah came through a guy named Herbert W Armstrong. This is his reason…. “Nothing was restored through John the Baptist”Matthew 17:11
11Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things”Thats all I have found out so far
But still it doesnt match the 3 and a half years. *sigh*
Im still reading though
Hugs
Phoenix
Herbert W Armstrong denied Christ by keeping feasts and annual sabbaths (Luke 24:44) and his off shoot churches still do.I always found it interesting that John the Baptist didn't know he was Elijah.
Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not arisen a greater than John the Baptist: yet he that is but little in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and men of violence take it by force.
Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Mat 11:14 And if ye are willing to receive it, this is Elijah, that is to come.
Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.Joh 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elijah? And he saith, I am not. Art thou the prophet? And he answered, No.
Quote I always found it interesting that John the Baptist didn't know he was Elijah. Hmmm well that is weird too. So what do you think Jesus meant by (Elijah)John restores all things?
Hugs
PhoenixQuote (Phoenix @ Feb. 24 2007,14:40) Quote I always found it interesting that John the Baptist didn't know he was Elijah. Hmmm well that is weird too. So what do you think Jesus meant by (Elijah)John restores all things?
Hugs
Phoenix
Untill John the baptist the word was not taught. Between the old and new testament there was 400 years of silence.Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 24 2007,14:46) Right Well I guess that makes sense then. *biffs the books in trash can*
Hugs
Phoenix
As things start getting close and more signs come there will be (are) all kinds of people wanting to make a buck. There is only one truth.Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth: thy word is truth.
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