The two witnesses of revelation

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Mar. 27 2014,16:07)

Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 27 2014,08:21)

Marty.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; ***but the election hath obtained it***, and the rest. were blinded.

The chosen jews(remnant), will return to their land.
By the election. They will live in paradise.
The resurrected saints will teach.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

The Jews that are coming back to Israel now are not the elect unless they have believe the gospel and have made Jesus their Lord. The gospel is being preached to them as a nation again at this time.

There was a remnant that came back from the babylonian captivity, and they are part of the elect as well as all who were saved from the time of Jesus ministry until the time of the dispersion that Paul is referring to in the scriptures in Romans 11. He was one of these himself. All of these are in the grave awaiting the resurrection.

But there are those who have been saved since them and will be saved prior to the coming of the Lord for the church,

When Jesus comes for the church, there will not be any who are saved that are left on the earth. The scriptures state that the dead in Christ shall rise first and those who are alive will be changed in a moment and twinkling of an eye and all will meet the Lord in the air to be with him forever more.

The remainder on earth will have receive the mark of the beast, and once the mark of the beast has been received there is no more salvation, and so, no one that is left here after the resurrection will be saved.

And so, I am not following you in what you are stating.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty.

So what about the second judgement and the second death.
can you explain.

wakeup.

March 27, 2014 at 10:08 am#375127

Participant

Marty.

No one can come to the Father but by me.
So are all the jews of the past lost?
Please explain.

wakeup.

March 27, 2014 at 6:36 pm#375150

Participant

Hi,
God chooses to raise up sons from their ancient jewish bones and to fill them with His Spirit.

He can do so just as He can raise up children of Abraham from stones [lk 3.8]

March 27, 2014 at 7:01 pm#375153

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 27 2014,21:08)

Marty.

No one can come to the Father but by me.
So are all the jews of the past lost?
Please explain.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

This is the explanation:

Without the shed blood of Jesus, no person who has ever lived can come to the Father because all of us have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. There is no other remedy for sin.

Quote

Eph 1:7

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Eph 1:8

Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

Eph 1:9

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Eph 1:10

That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Love in Christ,
Marty

March 27, 2014 at 7:46 pm#375160

Participant

Marty.

Can you fit these scriptures in your picture?
please explain.

They are flesh in paradise:
Isaiah 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

Isaiah 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

Isaiah 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Isaiah 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

Isaiah 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Isaiah 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

Isaiah 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

wakeup.

March 27, 2014 at 7:48 pm#375161

Participant

Hi WU,
Flesh but they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord
They are of the Spirit

March 27, 2014 at 8:03 pm#375165

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2014,06:48)

Hi WU,
Flesh but they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord
They are of the Spirit

Nick.

Will you also be in the flesh at the resurrection?

wakeup.

March 27, 2014 at 8:15 pm#375166

Participant

Hi WU,
I hope to meet the Lord in the air wearing the new body.

March 27, 2014 at 11:18 pm#375199

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 28 2014,06:46)

Marty.

Can you fit these scriptures in your picture?
please explain.

They are flesh in paradise:
Isaiah 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

Isaiah 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

Isaiah 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

Isaiah 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

Isaiah 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

wakeup.

Wakeup:

Who said that this was in paradise? I don't know what time period this is describing.

But there is this scripture that may help, and that is Isaiah 11:

Quote

Isaiah 11

King James Version (KJV)

11 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;

3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.

14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.

15 And the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.

16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

Love in Christ,
Marty

March 27, 2014 at 11:28 pm#375204

Participant

Marty.

Dont run from my question.

The lion will eat straw;they will build houses,
and plant fruit trees. They are flesh.

Where does that fit into your picture?
Not only your picture, but most of us here.
There is a big open gap in your picture.
Too big to patch up.

wakeup.

March 28, 2014 at 1:31 pm#375287

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 28 2014,10:28)

Marty.

Dont run from my question.

The lion will eat straw;they will build houses,
and plant fruit trees. They are flesh.

Where does that fit into your picture?
Not only your picture, but most of us here.
There is a big open gap in your picture.
Too big to patch up.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

Well now you say that it s a question, but you originally stated that this would be in paradise. You made it sound that it was definetly that way. You did not even state it saying “I believe that this was in the millennium”, did you?

I have stated that I do not know during to what time period God is referring at this time. He has not given me that understanding.

About the passage of scripture that you quoted, all I can say is that sometime God uses symbolism in the scriptures to describe something that pertains to the human realm. For example, he said that he sends us his disciples into the world, as sheep among wolves, and tells us to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves or He says that we should beware of false prophets that come to us in sheep's clothing or Paul stated that God had shut the mouth of the lion and it had not devoured him etc.

I believe that we can actually rule out that the time period to which this refers is that of the millennium because the scriptures state the following about this time period:

Quote

Isa 65:25

The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

The serpent will be bound for these thousand years that we refer to as the millennium.

Quote

Rev 20:2

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Rev 20:3

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

And so, we will just have to wait for God to give us understanding of all this before we make a definite statement about what this means. I don't know.

Love in Christ,
Marty

March 28, 2014 at 2:59 pm#375291

journey42

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2014,15:07)

Hi J42
NASB
3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way. 6 These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.

7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which [f]mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. 9 Those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead [g]bodies for three and a half days, and [h]will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

11 But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” Then they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them. 13 And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Thank you Nick

It seems pretty clear from your version also that they are men

March 28, 2014 at 3:14 pm#375293

Participant

Marty.

So you believe that there will be a millenium coming.
But you also did say previously that at the coming all will be judged and all the wicked will be destoyed.

They are two contadicting statements.
You need to make yourself clear.

Isaiah 11 and 65 if understood; is clearly speaking of paradise. Yet the saints will be resurrected in spirit,and will rule. Have you ever asked the question: rule over whom?
And who will be living in paradise?

We dont have to wait for all the answers,because its all there. Just need to seek and dig deeper to find out.

wakeup.

March 28, 2014 at 6:07 pm#375309

Participant

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 29 2014,01:59)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2014,15:07)

Thank you Nick

It seems pretty clear from your version also that they are men

Hi j42,
SEEMS PRETTY CLEAR is adequate understanding of the sacred words?
Find it written first

March 29, 2014 at 12:29 am#375357

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 29 2014,02:14)

Marty.

So you believe that there will be a millenium coming.
But you also did say previously that at the coming all will be judged and all the wicked will be destoyed.

They are two contadicting statements.
You need to make yourself clear.

We dont have to wait for all the answers,because its all there. Just need to seek and dig deeper to find out.

wakeup.

Hi Wakeup:

Of course there is a millennium, or 1000 year period of time.

This is what the scriptures state:

Quote

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I don't see anything that says that they are ruling over anyone.

I believe that they are judging the dead according to the works of each and will be deciding on what punishment that will be rendered to them in the second resurrection, and I believe that because of what the Apostle Paul states here:

Quote

1 Corinthians 6

King James Version (KJV)

6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

But enough for now.

Study to show yourself approved rightly dividing the Word of God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

March 30, 2014 at 12:09 am#375464

Participant

Hi WU,
You said this in another thread

“You should understand that the big picture
is not on display for every one to see.
But it is hidden in many prophesies and scriptures,and is for us to find.
And link them together.

One that have not seen the true picture can not say;
that it is false. And say,show me the scriptures.
You have to investigate first;by comparing prophecy with prophecy; then make your judgement.”

But you do not do this with the two witnesses

March 30, 2014 at 4:40 am#375477

Participant

Nick.

The two witnesses is only a smal part of the whole picture.

wakeup.

March 30, 2014 at 4:49 am#375479

Participant

Hi WU,
Yes I agree.
So we need to make sure each piece is rightly known.

March 31, 2014 at 6:05 am#375639

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2014,15:49)

Hi WU,
Yes I agree.
So we need to make sure each piece is rightly known.

Absolutely.

wakeup.

March 31, 2014 at 6:26 am#375642