The two witnesses of revelation

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
So an olive tree constantly produces the oil with which men are anointed. So the oil probably relates to the Spirit of God.

A candlestick gives light to the world when it burns and the Word of God does the same

?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 03 2008,13:22)

Hi 94, So an olive tree constantly produces the oil with which men are anointed. So the oil probably relates to the Spirit of God. A candlestick gives light to the world when it burns and the Word of God does the same ?

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14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, F9 but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

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Rev. 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
So the seven relates to the 7 churches ministering the Spirit of God and we have the word of Christ implanted in us so we do not hide it under a bushel but shine it out to the world.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 03 2008,14:17)

Hi 94, So the seven relates to the 7 churches ministering the Spirit of God and we have the word of Christ implanted in us so we do not hide it under a bushel but shine it out to the world.

Hi Nick:

We minister the Word of God not the Holy Spirit. Through obedience to His Word we glorify the Father and the Son.

Although He, that is God, says to us, be ye Holy for I am Holy.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Does the Spirit not flow through you when you lay on hands?

[942767]

Hi Nick:

It is Jesus who baptizes with the Holy Ghost even if I lay hands on someone who has believed the gospel message, but receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit is conditional upon someone believing the Word of God, therefore, we minister the Word of God so that by faith in the Word of God believers can receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Does scripture SAY God is in the witnesses?
Are you assuming the two witnesses are men?
There are many other witnesses mentioned in the bible.

I suggest you remain openminded

Genesis 21:30
And he said, For these seven ewe lambs shalt thou take of my hand, that they may be a witness unto me, that I have digged this well.

Genesis 31:44
Now therefore come thou, let us make a covenant, I and thou; and let it be for a witness between me and thee.

Genesis 31:48
And Laban said, This heap is a witness between me and thee this day. Therefore was the name of it called Galeed;

Genesis 31:50
If thou shalt afflict my daughters, or if thou shalt take other wives beside my daughters, no man is with us; see, God is witness betwixt me and thee.

Genesis 31:52
This heap be witness, and this pillar be witness, that I will not pass over this heap to thee, and that thou shalt not pass over this heap and this pillar unto me, for harm.

Numbers 17:7
And Moses laid up the rods before the LORD in the tabernacle of witness.

Deuteronomy 4:26
I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.

Deuteronomy 31:19
Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy 31:26
Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Josh 22
26Therefore we said, Let us now prepare to build us an altar, not for burnt offering, nor for sacrifice:

27But that it may be a witness between us, and you, and our generations after us, that we might do the service of the LORD before him with our burnt offerings, and with our sacrifices, and with our peace offerings; that your children may not say to our children in time to come, Ye have no part in the LORD

Joshua 24:27
And Joshua said unto all the people, Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us; for it hath heard all the words of the LORD which he spake unto us: it shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God.

Psalm 89:37
It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

Is 19
19In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.

20And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.

[NickHassan]

ps,
More witnesses
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1 John 5:6
This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

1 John 5:8
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

[942767]

Hi Nick:

I believe that the two witnesses are men because they are killed.  They have a mortal body, and they are prophets.

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Rev 11:7 ¶ And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. Rev 11:8  And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Rev 11:9  And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. Rev 11:10  And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Yes, I believe that the scripture states that God is in them.  First of all if they are members of the body of Christ, and they are because they are prophets, the scripture states that we are the holy temple of God.

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1Cr 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.   1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Secondly, I believe that scripture states that God in in them because they are God's anointed.

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Zech. 4:11Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 12And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.

[seek and you will find]

This an article that my Husband has written with intense studying.

The two Witnesses

Rev. 11:1 “And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying,
rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.”
John was told to measure the temple; this is God’s spiritual temple, the saints. And the altar; the altar is were you offer up your sacrifice, John was told to measure their sacrifices too, because they are the worshippers of God. Describing the reed as a rod is to say, saints need correction and discipline too.
Rev. 3:19 “As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten, be zealous therefore and repent.”
Job thought he was a righteous man, even argued with God about that, and what did he have to go through before he learned what his problem was.
Rev. 11:2 “But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for
it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they treat under foot forty and
two month.”
The court outside the temple are the gentiles, none believers; measure them not. They will be measured during Christ’s millennium. The holy city is the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven.
Rev. 21:2 “And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
It is the place Jesus had prepared for them. The saints were the once trodden under foot, persecuted for 42 month. Notice the length of time in the next verse.
Rev.11:3 “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.”
We read in another place that the saints were to be trodden under foot by Antichrist, for 42 month.
Rev. 13:5 “And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two month.”
And again, the same length of time is mentioned in years in the book of,
Dan. 7:25 “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws; and they shall be
given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”
Whether you count in month, or years, it all ads up 1260 days, only God counts a year for a day, or 1260 years, the length of Antichrists reign. (See Antichrist) The two witnesses were witnessing all through his reign, and far beyond. This shows us that these two witnesses are not two individuals.
v. 4 “These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the god of the earth.”
Hear the two witnesses are called olive trees and candlesticks. Olive Trees are the source of the oil, the oil symbolizes God’s Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is what gives us understanding, and we receive the Holy Spirit and understanding by reading the two witnesses, the Old and the New Testament; they are the two witnesses, the word of God. A candlestick holds up the candle so when the candle is lit it can light up the dark. The saints, the real witnesses or candles, received their faith and strength from the two witnesses to stand before the god, ruler, of the earth, Satan.
2 Cor. 4:4 “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not…”
Jesus spoke of these two witnesses too.
John 5:39 “Search the scriptures; (Old Testament) for in them ye thing ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify (witness) of me.”
Mat. 24:14 “And this gospel (New Testament), of the kingdom shall be preached in all
the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
Is anyone taken the next verse literal?
Rev. 11:5 “And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.”
God would never turn a human being into a fire breezing dragon. However, if you remain an enemy of God during the millennium, you will be destroyed in the lake of fire. The hurt you can do to the word of God, the two witnesses, is not believing it; and that will cause you the greatest hurt.
v. 6 “These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy:
and have powers over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with
all plagues, as often as they will.”
In the days of Moses and Elijah, the days of their prophecy. Elijah stopped the rain for three and a half years during the time of his prophecy.
Luke 4:25 “But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Eli’as,
when the heaven was shut up three years and six month, when great famine was
throughout all the land.”
Moses came to Pharaoh with Gods demand to let his people go, when he refused
to listen he had to suffer the consequences; read Exodus chapters 7 – 12. If we don’t listen to his word we will suffer likewise, Hurricanes, Tornados, Earthquakes, Floods, Droughts, etc. Again, God would not give any one human that kind of power to do as he pleases. Of course, we could say, all these catastrophes are all “natural disasters” I say they are a “Heads up” from God.
Rev. 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascended out
of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.”
The two witnesses, the Old and the New Testament, is what gave the saints strength, what they relied on, and put their faith and trust in, even gave their life for. The work of the two witnesses was finished when the persecution of Antichrist stopped. (See Antichrist) But the witnessing never stopped. What is killing the two witnesses is the beast, the government. I thing its no secret that no worldly government has any use for religion, it is however a useful and tolerated nuisance. They help keep people in check with their believes; and sometimes with their superstition. Even the Romans knew that, they allowed every conquered nation to practice their religion as long as they would pay homage to the Emperor. Christianity is a government’s worst enemy it demands honesty; morality and accountability; at least it used too. And the beast that came out of the bottomless pit, the “League of Nation” now the “United Nations” (See the seventh Head), is not in support of it. They are infect trying to kill the two witnesses by supporting the attempt to make this world, a secular world.
v. 8 “And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is
called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”
Most people would assume that this great city is Jerusalem; it is not. For one thing Jesus was crucified outside the city. This city is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. What Egypt and Sodom symbolize is sin and perversion. In other words this great city is the world, Satan’s world. That is where Jesus was crucified. There are no real bodies lying in the streets either. The dying of the two witnesses is happening in the bodies of them that call themselves Christians but pay no attention to the word of God.
v. 9 “And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and a half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.”
The whole world can see what is happening. The killing off of the two witnesses is evidenced every night by the news, in the entire world. Morality and decency are decreasing immorality and crime is increasing. There is no real life in people; they are the dead bodies not quite ready for burial yet; but as the three and a half days indicate, a fraction when you compare them to the 1260 years of Antichrists reign, this condition will last only a short time, already people are beginning to realize what is happening. But for now;
v.
10 “And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and
shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that
dwelt on the earth.”
People are so happy to sin freely, to do as they please and not have to feel bad embarrassed or ashamed; every body is doing it, no more restrictions. Who wants to listen to those two prophets anyway? Lets have some fun instead; even the beast is on our side. People no longer demand accountability from our leaders, so they don’t have to fear they will be held accountable either.
v. 11 “And after three days and a half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and
they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.”
We do now live in the very last days of our time; people are sensing it and are fearful, not knowing what to believe or what will happen. So they flock into churches and hope for the rapture, that will never come. Some people are beginning to stand up for the two witnesses and are looking for God’s Spirit, for life. This is not what the beast wants, and regrettably not enough people demand a change. Government fears changes for the better, the beast wants to be in control.
v. 12 “And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, come up hither.
And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.”
If we understand that no one goes to heaven, than we should know that this is meant metaphorical. God has promised protection to those that love him in the day of his wrath.
Zeph. 2:3 “Seek ye the LORD all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his
judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness; it may be ye shall be hid in the day
of the LORD’s anger.”
A cloud usually hides what is behind it, and that is the meaning of verse 12, God will protect you, hide you from his wrath. Not that he is going to take you to heaven; this has nothing to do with the rapture, only with the safety of those that have God’s Holy Spirit. His call will be a call to safety, not to heaven. The enemies of God will become aware of that, because the wrath is on them.
Rev. 11:13 “And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the
city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.”
This great earthquake is how God will punish the world. Whether it is one big earthquake really makes no different, God has many options; what is important is that this shaking of the earth, does affect the entire world. The tenth of the city; what city? The world is the city, remember verse 8? Also the number seven is God’s number of perfection, seven therefore is the perfect thousands of men slain; and if a tenth of the world is destroyed? How many would be the perfect thousand killed? Those that are killed outright may be the lucky ones. Consider the disasters we have experienced, Hurricanes, Tornados, Tsunamis, ect; how long did people have to wait till help arrived? Only then, there will be no help, from anywhere. It will be God’s wrath on all mankind.
Is. 13:11 “And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity;
and I will cause the arrogance of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.”
That is why it’s good to know,
Nah. 1:7 “The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them
that trust in him.”

Peace and Love Mrs.

P.S. I hope that you read this all.

[NickHassan]

Thanks Im4,
So it could be another way of showing the worldwide gospel testimony.

[942767]

Hi:

The scripture states “these two prophets”, therefore, they are two individuals.

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Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because THESE TWO PROPHETS tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Two individual whats?
Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

The books and the Spirit are prophets too.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2008,09:16)

Hi 94, Two individual whats? Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:   The books and the Spirit are prophets too.

Hi Nick:

The scripture states that they are two prophets, and so, they are two individuals whether two men or a man and a woman or two women. Two prophets.

The following is what the dictionary states:

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The “prophet” proclaimed the message given to him, as the “seer” beheld the vision of God. (See Numbers 12:6, 8.) Thus a prophet was a spokesman for God; he spake in God's name and by his authority (Exodus 7:1). He is the mouth by which God speaks to men (Jeremiah 1:9; Isaiah 51:16), and hence what the prophet says is not of man but of God (2 Peter 1:20, 21; Comp. Hebrews 3:7; Acts 4:25; 28:25). Prophets were the immediate organs of God for the communication of his mind and will to men (Deuteronomy 18:18, 19). The whole Word of God may in this general sense be spoken of as prophetic, inasmuch as it was written by men who received the revelation they communicated from God, no matter what its nature might be. The foretelling of future events was not a necessary but only an incidental part of the prophetic office. The great task assigned to the prophets whom God raised up among the people was “to correct moral and religious abuses, to proclaim the great moral and religious truths which are connected with the character of God, and which lie at the foundation of his government.” Any one being a spokesman for God to man might thus be called a prophet. Thus Enoch, Abraham, and the patriarchs, as bearers of God's message (Genesis 20:7; Exodus 7:1; Psalm 105:15), as also Moses (Deuteronomy 18:15; 34:10; Hosea 12:13), are ranked among the prophets. The seventy elders of Israel (Numbers 11:16-29), “when the spirit rested upon them, prophesied;” Asaph and Jeduthun “prophesied with a harp” (1 Chronicles 25:3). Miriam and Deborah were prophetesses (Exodus 15:20; Judges 4:4). The title thus has a general application to all who have messages from God to men.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Men who are firebreathers?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2008,15:39)

Hi 94, Men who are firebreathers?

Are you referring to the following scripture?

Quote

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

If so, this is not literal fire, but the Word of God that shall come forth from God through the prophets as judgment against those who persecute them. Verse 11:6 gives us some of the judgments that will come forth.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
I respect your opinion.
And your scriptural evidence is?

If you cannot show this then why say they are men without scriptural proof?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2008,16:47)

Hi 94, I respect your opinion. And your scriptural evidence is? If you cannot show this then why say they are men without scriptural proof?

Nick:

I already showed you that they are men because the scriptures states that they are prophets. Can you accept this? If not, why not?

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
There are points either way.
But since it is not written that they are men we should not state it so.

If they are men can you show from scripture where men breathe fire?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2008,06:50)

Hi 94, There are points either way. But since it is not written that they are men we should not state it so. If they are men can you show from scripture where men breathe fire?

Hi Nick:

What are the points contrary to them being men?  Do prophets or anyone, for that matter, breathe literal fire? What is the point of them doing so?

This is an example of the fire that to which this refers:

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Num 11:1 ¶ And [when] the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard [it]; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed [them that were] in the uttermost parts of the camp.

And compare:

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Rev 11:6  These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will

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