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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 04 2009,18:50) Hi BD,
You offer your personal piety as a hope of salvation?
It has never worked before
All Muslims accept Jesus Christ, Everyone of them. The Quran is clear on that. So when you keep triying to talk to me about Jesus not only you are preaching to the choir. You are wasting your posts.If someone tells you that they believe and accept Jesus it is wrong for you to keep telling that they don't.
The funny thing about you is you tell me to accept Jesus as if I didn't accept him when instead you should be asking trinitarians and others why they do not accept him for who he is and for what he is?
Jesus is The Christ, now if you continue asking me about Jesus it can only be because either you worship Jesus or you do not Worship God as you are supposed to.
Just because you have no knowledge of the Quran does not make it wrong in-fact look what the bible has to say about this matter:
Matthew 1
16And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
1 John 4
2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:1 John 5
1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
John 17
3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.1 John 2
22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.(1) Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #45)(2) That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #157)(3) O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not “Trinity” : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)(4) In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: “Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every – one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things.”
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #17)(5) They do blaspheme who say: “(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary.” But said Christ: “O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #72)(6) The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah.s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #30)(7) They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #31)It seems to me that The Quran is explicit about Jesus being The Christ and according to the scriptures I gave you in the Bible you cannot say that Muslims are not of God or do not believe in Christ so don't be sinful and arrogant, stating what you should not. There are only two main things you should be trying to get across in this forum. 1. God is Sovereign and has no partners and 2. Christ who is Jesus came in the flesh and was sent by God and in no way is he God.
Telling people who love Jesus that they do not is simply evil.
Hi BD,
I accept the local grocer and the Mayor and the Prime Minister too.
Do you think acceptance is relevant?We are to DIE with him in baptism that we may be raised with him.[Rom5]
Such belief avoids the wrath of God on sinful mankind.
He is the Son of God and Lord of all.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 05 2009,06:54) Hi BD,
I accept the local grocer and the Mayor and the Prime Minister too.
Do you think acceptance is relevant?We are to DIE with him in baptism that we may be raised with him.[Rom5]
Such belief avoids the wrath of God on sinful mankind.
He is the Son of God and Lord of all.
If Jesus is your lord, then you must believe he is your GodBecause the scripture is simple
Deuteronomy 6
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:If you are a heathen then Jesus is your Lord
Psalm 2:7-9 (King James Version)
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
I am a believer since birth so MY Lord and MY God is The Almighty.
but nick you need to get in alignment with this scripture:
John 4:21-23 (King James Version)
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Now if Salvation is of the Jews who do the Jews say is their ONE LORD.
Deuteronomy 6
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 05 2009,08:54) Hi BD,
You really do not understand do you?
The Father is our Lord's God and our God.
I agree with you Nick but for the sake of some peoples ongoing confusion I must be as specific as possible.They cling to words like “lord” for the sake of worship but “Christ ” is more than sufficient and a much greater title than even lord.
We have God and we have Christ that is crystal clear and cannot be manipulated.
Hi BD,
He is Lord of all.
Nothing to do with worship but servanthood of all, even the branches of the vine.All will bend the knee to King Jesus.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 05 2009,12:43) Hi BD,
He is Lord of all.
Nothing to do with worship but servanthood of all, even the branches of the vine.All will bend the knee to King Jesus.
Psalm 956 Come in, we bow ourselves, and we bend, We kneel before Jehovah our Maker.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2009,07:44) Hi BD,
Are you hopeful in the Old Law?
God offered you His Son and would you offer him contempt?
God sent him and I believe and accept him I worship God alone as Jesus told me too. Why do you want me to be disobedient to Jesus?Matthew 4:8-10 (King James Version)
8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
So either you are saying that Jesus is God and I should serve him or I should do what Jesus said and tell you “get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him ONLY shalt thou serve.”
Hi bd,
Neither should you worship the appointed Lord Jesus but you will bend the knee to him as will all men.He will come again to judge mankind.
Islam will have no advantage before him.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2009,15:26) Hi bd,
Neither should you worship the appointed Lord Jesus but you will bend the knee to him as will all men.He will come again to judge mankind.
Islam will have no advantage before him.
Where is the scripture that says all men will bend their knee to him, and just to save you time.Philippians 2
10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Did you notice the word “should” the writer is saying that Jesus is so wonderful that everyone should bow and confess that Jesus is lord it is not a statement of Command otherwise Jesus would have given us this command himself or the writer would have said “Thus saith the Lord, Jesus is your lord so bow and confess this”
There is no command to do this and yet you want me to do this and yet Jesus tells us of the everlasting command to worship the Lord your God with all your heart all your soul and all your mind. It is an actual command to say “should” is an opinion.
Bless be the name of Jesus forever and with that said I should follow his teachings the way he taught them.
He will come to judge mankind according to there works he won't care what you say with your mouth.
Proverbs 24
12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?
Matthew 5:15-17 (King James Version)
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
But what if I should do wonderful works and serve Jesus only?
Matthew 7:21-23 (King James Version)
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It is best to turn away from evil
Jonah 3
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Matthew 16:26-28 (King James Version)
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
So not doing the will of The Father and offering Him exclusive devotion is iniquity according to Jesus Christ.
Imagine WJ, Thinker, CB, TC27 and others really feeling that they have defended the faith and telling Jesus how much they protected his Godhood status and how they made him equal to God or some say even God Himself can you imagine when they are shown the truth and Jesus asks them why didn't you believe that God was sovereign why didn't you believe in MY GOD and YOUR GOD can you imagine the shock (God Willing) Jesus will not say “I never knew you, depart from me”
Then what will you say when Jesus says “Nick, what is the first commandment” and then you tell him and he asks “Nick, who is Lord?
My advice:
1 Peter 3
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2009,22:22) Hi BD,
So if you should what option is God giving you?
I don't need an option and God didn't give me one it is a Commandment that Jesus further instilled and upheld as an unyielding Commandment.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2009,06:31) Hi BD,
Are you a jew under the OT?
You think in terms of OT and NT but I think in terms of God not changing I love God and all that He attests to.Hi BD,
Does God love everyone enough to save them all without Jesus?
Most false religions rely on this unwise premise.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2009,17:33) Hi BD,
Does God love everyone enough to save them all without Jesus?
Most false religions rely on this unwise premise.
God does not love evil doers and does not acquit the unrepentent guilty.The scripture says clearly:
James 5:19-20 (King James Version)
19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Ezekiel 33:12 (King James Version)
12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Ezekiel 3:19-21 (King James Version)
19Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
20Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
21Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
Hi BD,
All have sinned.
Islam cannot deal with that issue.
There is forgiveness of sin found in Jesus.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2009,19:48) Hi BD,
All have sinned.
Islam cannot deal with that issue.
There is forgiveness of sin found in Jesus.
Islam has dealt with that issue and you are correct forgiveness of sin is found in Jesus the Quran also agrees with that.Obeying the messengers of God is being obedient to God. This is why you say that Jesus is your lord because you obey him but the fact is you are obeying him according to what God has commanded him to teach you so in the ultimate sense your Lord is God.
It is the same as the owner of a business and a manager of a business. The owner is ultimately the Only real boss but he gives all authority and power to the manager to run the store.
The owner may have several managers of different types but the Owner is Sovereign.
Trinitarians consider the Owner a Corporate entity and Oneness believers consider the Owner and The Manager the same person.
Trinitarians also believe that even in their corporation there are 3 co-equal presidents the odd thing about that is since there are 3 presidents one will always be the weaker in any voting decision because Majority will always rule by 2/3's
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