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Quote (942767 @ July 03 2009,14:22) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 02 2009,16:37) Quote (942767 @ July 02 2009,00:33) Hi BD: The curse of the law is that it brought condemnation to all of humanity because all of us have broken God's law, therefore, as the scripture that I have quoted for you states, by the works of the law shall no man be saved.
Jesus died a condemned man, accused of blasphemy and of breaking God's law, but God raised him from the dead declaring him not guilty, therefore no man speaking by the Holy Ghost calleth Jesus accursed. He paid the penalty that was due to all men in that he died a condemned sinner. All of us have broken God's law and the wages of sin is death.
Jesus is not accursed. God has raised him from the dead and has exalted him to his position as head of the church, and sitting at His right hand.
Quote 2Cr 5:18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Cr 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Cr 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.Yes, we in the body of Christ are to obey God's law. Jesus is our example in how we should live our lives so that we might be in right standing with God, and he is the propitiation for our sins.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi 94As far as I can tell, BD doesnt believe Jesus was crucified!
WJ
Hi WJ:True, the Quran teaches that Jesus was not crucified, and so, although there may be much truth that is taught in the Quran, this teaching is false, and I have already discussed this with BD.
Love in Christ,
Marty
One thing for sure is that Jesus was taken up to heaven alive(2) That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #157)The Jews believed that Jesus being the Messiah was false but it turned out they were wrong there is reason to believe that he was not killed although it may have appeared that it occured.
The Quran states that they plotted to Kill:
Aal-e-Imran
51 “'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'”
52 When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: “Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah.” Said the disciples: “We are Allah.s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
53 “Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger. then write us down among those who bear witness.”
54 And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
55 Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.One thing is for sure and that is Jesus was taken up to heaven alive.
Why did mary not recognize Jesus when she saw him? was he in a disguise?
Which of those who wrote the Gospels actually witnessed his crucifixion
Mark 14:49-51 (New King James Version)
50 Then they all forsook Him and fled.
and most importantly who is this young man
51 Now a certain young man followed Him, having a linen cloth thrown around his naked body. And the young men laid hold of him, 52 and he left the linen cloth and fled from them naked.
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 02 2009,18:21) Quote (942767 @ July 02 2009,16:33) Hi BD: The curse of the law is that it brought condemnation to all of humanity because all of us have broken God's law, therefore, as the scripture that I have quoted for you states, by the works of the law shall no man be saved.
Jesus died a condemned man, accused of blasphemy and of breaking God's law, but God raised him from the dead declaring him not guilty, therefore no man speaking by the Holy Ghost calleth Jesus accursed. He paid the penalty that was due to all men in that he died a condemned sinner. All of us have broken God's law and the wages of sin is death.
Jesus is not accursed. God has raised him from the dead and has exalted him to his position as head of the church, and sitting at His right hand.
Quote 2Cr 5:18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Cr 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Cr 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.Yes, we in the body of Christ are to obey God's law. Jesus is our example in how we should live our lives so that we might be in right standing with God, and he is the propitiation for our sins.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Okay, so you do have to obey God's law even with your propitiation, right?You still must repent when you sin, right?
Paul says that if you backslide and sin afetr accepting Christ there is no more a propitiation for your sins because Christ cannot die again so tell me since you accepted Christ have you commited sin and if so what now?
Hi BD:Yes, as a Christian I do obey God's eternal Law, but not the letter of the Law. Jesus through obedience to God even unto death on the cross fulfilled the law, and so, by obeying the commandments that have come from God to humanity through him, I am obeying God's law.
The scripture states the following:
Quote 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
And,
Quote 8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law
When I was a baby Christian, I misunderstood the scripture that states “if you sin wilfully after you have received knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin”, thinking it this meant that if I sinned “one time wilfully” that was the end of any hope of salvation, but through a personal experience that God put me through, He has shown me that the scripture means that if you practice sin wilfully without repenting, then there remains no more sacrifice for sin.
I have seen God accept a backslider back. My son was in the church at one time and is now in a backslidden position, but God has shown me that he was going to be saved. God knows the circumstances in every situation, and He is merciful, but also, He will not be mocked.
Yes, I have sinned after having become a Christian, but I am not practicing sin wilfully. I do make mistakes, and when I do, I do repent, and try to learn from my mistakes.
I have already quoted this scripture, but let me post it again:
Quote 5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ July 03 2009,15:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 02 2009,18:21) Quote (942767 @ July 02 2009,16:33) Hi BD: The curse of the law is that it brought condemnation to all of humanity because all of us have broken God's law, therefore, as the scripture that I have quoted for you states, by the works of the law shall no man be saved.
Jesus died a condemned man, accused of blasphemy and of breaking God's law, but God raised him from the dead declaring him not guilty, therefore no man speaking by the Holy Ghost calleth Jesus accursed. He paid the penalty that was due to all men in that he died a condemned sinner. All of us have broken God's law and the wages of sin is death.
Jesus is not accursed. God has raised him from the dead and has exalted him to his position as head of the church, and sitting at His right hand.
Quote 2Cr 5:18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Cr 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Cr 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.Yes, we in the body of Christ are to obey God's law. Jesus is our example in how we should live our lives so that we might be in right standing with God, and he is the propitiation for our sins.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Okay, so you do have to obey God's law even with your propitiation, right?You still must repent when you sin, right?
Paul says that if you backslide and sin afetr accepting Christ there is no more a propitiation for your sins because Christ cannot die again so tell me since you accepted Christ have you commited sin and if so what now?
Hi BD:Yes, as a Christian I do obey God's eternal Law, but not the letter of the Law. Jesus through obedience to God even unto death on the cross fulfilled the law, and so, by obeying the commandments that have come from God to humanity through him, I am obeying God's law.
The scripture states the following:
Quote 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
And,
Quote 8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law
When I was a baby Christian, I misunderstood the scripture that states “if you sin wilfully after you have received knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin”, thinking it this meant that if I sinned “one time wilfully” that was the end of any hope of salvation, but through a personal experience that God put me through, He has shown me that the scripture means that if you practice sin wilfully without repenting, then there remains no more sacrifice for sin.
I have seen God accept a backslider back. My son was in the church at one time and is now in a backslidden position, but God has shown me that he was going to be saved. God knows the circumstances in every situation, and He is merciful, but also, He will not be mocked.
Yes, I have sinned after having become a Christian, but I am not practicing sin wilfully. I do make mistakes, and when I do, I do repent, and try to learn from my mistakes.
I have already quoted this scripture, but let me post it again:
Quote 5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Love in Christ,
Marty
So, since there is no more sacrifice for your sin you take that to mean that you must repent from your sin and ask for forgiveness?If that is so is the only difference that at one time you were not a believer at all or what? Because, Jews and Muslims repent and pray just like you and since Jesus can not die again for your current sins it seems you would have to pray and repent and rely on the mercy of God.
In-fact isn't each sin magnified that much more because of the “sacrifice”?
Hi BD,
Does repentance alone save anyone?
Admission of guilt simply shortens the courtcase.Forgiveness is the issue and it is found in Jesus.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 03 2009,15:23) Hi BD,
Does repentance alone save anyone?
Admission of guilt simply shortens the courtcase.Forgiveness is the issue and it is found in Jesus.
God forgives those who repent for God is Most Merciful and Most Gracious, have you heard what Jonas said after his ordeal:2 So he prayed to the LORD, and said, “Ah, LORD, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm.
Exodus 34:5-7 (New King James Version)
5 Now the LORD descended in the cloud and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 6 And the LORD passed before him and proclaimed, “The LORD, the LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, 7 keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and the fourth generation.”Joel 2:12-14 (New King James Version)
12 “ Now, therefore,” says the LORD,
“ Turn to Me with all your heart,
With fasting, with weeping, and with mourning.”
13 So rend your heart, and not your garments;
Return to the LORD your God,
For He is gracious and merciful,
Slow to anger, and of great kindness;
And He relents from doing harm.Psalm 103:7-9 (New King James Version)
7 He made known His ways to Moses,
His acts to the children of Israel.
8 The LORD is merciful and gracious,
Slow to anger, and abounding in mercy.
9 He will not always strive with us,
Nor will He keep His anger forever.It seems to me you don't know how Gracious and Merciful your Father is.
Don't you know if you know the son then you know the Father. Didn't Jesus say he only does what he sees his Father do and that he was taught by his Father so how is it that you do not realize that while Jesus is gracious and merciful God Almighty is Most Gracious and Most Merciful.
Hi BD,
So man has no control over the Sovereign choice of God's forgiveness?
Rejection of His son would seem to be entirely risky behaviour.
[Jn3]Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 03 2009,18:31) Hi BD,
So man has no control over the Sovereign choice of God's forgiveness?
Rejection of His son would seem to be entirely risky behaviour.
[Jn3]
The rejection of any that belong to God is entirely risky behaviour.You must believe in the books, the prophets, angels, the day of judgement all of it.
You must even love me and if you don't you don't love Jesus
Hi BD,
Does everyone belong to God?
Will all be saved and is that your hope?
Will all the religious people of every kind in the world be saved?
Is any religion that man develops sufficient to establish men in relationship with God?How would you come to such bizarre thoughts?
Whoever wants to save his own life will lose it.
The choice God offers is in Jn3take it or leave it.
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 04 2009,04:55) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 03 2009,18:31) Hi BD,
So man has no control over the Sovereign choice of God's forgiveness?
Rejection of His son would seem to be entirely risky behaviour.
[Jn3]
The rejection of any that belong to God is entirely risky behaviour.You must believe in the books, the prophets, angels, the day of judgement all of it.
You must even love me and if you don't you don't love Jesus
Hi BD:And so, is loving you telling you what you want to hear by lying to you or is loving you, telling you the truth, and that is that only those in the body of Christ will be saved.
Without the blood that was shed for the sins of humanity, no man can be saved. In the OT sacrifice for sins was the blood of animals, but this was only symbolic of what God was going to do in the person of Jesus. In the day of atonement, the High priest in the OT went into the holy of holies into the presence of God with blood for his own sins and for the sins of the whole nation of Israel. Jesus is our High Priest who entered into the Holy of Holies into the very presence of God not in the tabernacle on earth, but in heaven. His sacrifice is that perfect sacrifice which has been offered once and for all and does not have to repeated each year as was done in the OT in the day of atonement.
Quote Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. Hbr 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein [was] the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
Hbr 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
Hbr 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein [was] the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
Hbr 9:5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
Hbr 9:6 ¶ Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service [of God].
Hbr 9:7 But into the second [went] the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and [for] the errors of the people:
Hbr 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Hbr 9:9 Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Hbr 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.
Hbr 9:11 ¶ But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Hbr 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].
Hbr 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Hbr 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hbr 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Hbr 9:16 ¶ For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Hbr 9:17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Hbr 9:18 Whereupon neither the first [testament] was dedicated without blood.
Hbr 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Hbr 9:20 Saying, This [is] the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Hbr 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
Hbr 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Hbr 9:23 ¶ [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Hbr 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Hbr 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (bodhitharta @ July 03 2009,15:15) Quote (942767 @ July 03 2009,15:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 02 2009,18:21) Quote (942767 @ July 02 2009,16:33) Hi BD: The curse of the law is that it brought condemnation to all of humanity because all of us have broken God's law, therefore, as the scripture that I have quoted for you states, by the works of the law shall no man be saved.
Jesus died a condemned man, accused of blasphemy and of breaking God's law, but God raised him from the dead declaring him not guilty, therefore no man speaking by the Holy Ghost calleth Jesus accursed. He paid the penalty that was due to all men in that he died a condemned sinner. All of us have broken God's law and the wages of sin is death.
Jesus is not accursed. God has raised him from the dead and has exalted him to his position as head of the church, and sitting at His right hand.
Quote 2Cr 5:18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Cr 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Cr 5:21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.Yes, we in the body of Christ are to obey God's law. Jesus is our example in how we should live our lives so that we might be in right standing with God, and he is the propitiation for our sins.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Okay, so you do have to obey God's law even with your propitiation, right?You still must repent when you sin, right?
Paul says that if you backslide and sin afetr accepting Christ there is no more a propitiation for your sins because Christ cannot die again so tell me since you accepted Christ have you commited sin and if so what now?
Hi BD:Yes, as a Christian I do obey God's eternal Law, but not the letter of the Law. Jesus through obedience to God even unto death on the cross fulfilled the law, and so, by obeying the commandments that have come from God to humanity through him, I am obeying God's law.
The scripture states the following:
Quote 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
And,
Quote 8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law
When I was a baby Christian, I misunderstood the scripture that states “if you sin wilfully after you have received knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin”, thinking it this meant that if I sinned “one time wilfully” that was the end of any hope of salvation, but through a personal experience that God put me through, He has shown me that the scripture means that if you practice sin wilfully without repenting, then there remains no more sacrifice for sin.
I have seen God accept a backslider back. My son was in the church at one time and is now in a backslidden position, but God has shown me that he was going to be saved. God knows the circumstances in every situation, and He is merciful, but also, He will not be mocked.
Yes, I have sinned after having become a Christian, but I am not practicing sin wilfully. I do make mistakes, and when I do, I do repent, and try to learn from my mistakes.
I have already quoted this scripture, but let me post it again:
Quote 5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Love in Christ,
Marty
So, since there is no more sacrifice for your sin you take that to mean that you must repent from your sin and ask for forgiveness?If that is so is the only difference that at one time you were not a believer at all or what? Because, Jews and Muslims repent and pray just like you and since Jesus can not die again for your current sins it seems you would have to pray and repent and rely on the mercy of God.
In-fact isn't each sin magnified that much more because of the “sacrifice”?
Hi BD:If there is no more sacrifice for your sins, then you will have to give an account to God for your own sins.
Jesus said this:
Quote Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. You may believe in God and may be in your own way of thinking obeying Him, and I am certain of that in the case of devout Jews and Muslims.
However, in the ministry of Jesus to the Jews there were many devout Jews, but they did not believe the gospel. This
is what the Apostle Paul states about them:Quote Rom 9:30 ¶ What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 10:1 ¶ Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
You say:
Quote In-fact isn't each sin magnified that much more because of the “sacrifice”? Yes, it does, and it means that you need God's mercy, and it will only come through His provision.
This is what the Apostle Paul stated about the time that he was under the law:
Quote Rom 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 ¶ Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Quote Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 ¶ [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
I hope this will help you to understand.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 04 2009,07:16) Hi BD,
Does everyone belong to God?
Will all be saved and is that your hope?
Will all the religious people of every kind in the world be saved?
Is any religion that man develops sufficient to establish men in relationship with God?How would you come to such bizarre thoughts?
Whoever wants to save his own life will lose it.
The choice God offers is in Jn3take it or leave it.
It doesn't matter who belongs to God, Jesus said you must love your enemies.Do you love your enemies?
It is not up to you to judge the religion of men but to be a light unto them.
Now, we can reason together and discuss the finer points of belief but in reality I discuss these things out of Love not persecution.
You seem to want to persecute and for what reason? Which one of us did you create that you should judge us or who made you a judge over us?
Hi BD,
Indeed it is wisdom to examine and discard the false pretensions claiming to be godly religion.
We cannot align with you if you choose to disregard the warning and refuse the offer of God in Jesus.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 04 2009,08:51) Hi BD,
Indeed it is wisdom to examine and discard the false pretensions claiming to be godly religion.
We cannot align with you if you choose to disregard the warning and refuse the offer of God in Jesus.
You keep saying these thing about me ragarding Jesus but the fact is Jesus is integral to my religion but I don't worship him like you would like me to.I can not worship any other that God Most High that is pure worship. I can not worship any other God or place any lords or gods as partners. My Worship of God is Sovereign and directed to Him alone, this is PURE UNTAINTED MONOTHEISM
Hi BD,
The branch does not worship the vine.
But it is utterly dependant on that vine for life and the ability to produce fruit.No man can come to the Father except through Jesus.
Your efforts are cursed to be fruitless.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 04 2009,09:40) Hi BD,
The branch does not worship the vine.
But it is utterly dependant on that vine for life and the ability to produce fruit.No man can come to the Father except through Jesus.
Your efforts are cursed to be fruitless.
You got it wrong no one can even come to know Jesus unless the Father let's them know Jesus. Jesus said the Father gave them to him and no man can take them out. So the Father led me to Jesus and then Jesus led me to The Father in Peace.So I have Jesus and The Father but it seems to me you haven't really got to meet the Father yet. Pray to Jesus to let you understand The Father. Jesus came to set you free so that you might worship God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind but you seem spli between the two.
You essentially keep telling me I worship the Father too much.
Jesus didn't come to the righteous those who already loved God he came to the lost and those who did not believe.
Matthew 9:12-14 (New King James Version)
12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’[a] For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”I have always believed in God, You believe in sacrifice but I believe in Mercy.
Hi BD,
You mean KNOW OF?Hope in mercy is a reasonable hope.
But we are urged to enter the way of Jesus[heb4]
God may not agree with your own assessment of your own merciful behavior[mt25]It is specified as being towards the brothers of Jesus.[mt25]
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 04 2009,16:20) Hi BD,
You mean KNOW OF?Hope in mercy is a reasonable hope.
But we are urged to enter the way of Jesus[heb4]
God may not agree with your own assessment of your own merciful behavior[mt25]It is specified as being towards the brothers of Jesus.[mt25]
You are once again incorrect have you never read the story about the samaritan?Luke 10
25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’[h] and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”
29 But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 Then Jesus answered and said: “A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. 31 Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32 Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side. 33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had compassion. 34 So he went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. 35 On the next day, when he departed,[j] he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I come again, I will repay you.’ 36 So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?”
37 And he said, “He who showed mercy on him.”
Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”Now simply exchange Samaritan with Muslim and be reborn into the truth.
Hi BD,
Do you think that this answer given to the Jews who questioned him about the Law is the way of salvation for you?
But you are not a Jew and are not keen to become one we understand.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 04 2009,17:15) Hi BD,
Do you think that this answer given to the Jews who questioned him about the Law is the way of salvation for you?
But you are not a Jew and are not keen to become one we understand.
This was not about being Jewish face it Nick your running on empty now the only thing seperating you from furthering your spiritual journey is your ego and arrogance.
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