THE TRUE CHURCH: The Living Temple

[SimplyForgiven]

The Case for the True Church of God.

I have made many “blanket” statements and many “generalizations” about how I find Today’s Church’s to be Unscriptural.  I would even go further to say that Today’s church’s are not from God.
If you agree or disagree, feel free to add your own personal points of view and points to discuss

I have come to this conclusion not as a discovery of some sort based on my own intellect, but by experience.
An Experience that only the Lord can put someone through to understand and be drawn out of the imposter that is what most of all everyone calls presently “The Church”

Its like being exposed that everything you knew was not what you thought it was, and there is so much more to it.

My Resolve: Today’s Churches are not of God
However let me Correctly define what I’m referring to:

>“Today's Churches”  I Refer to This: “Any structure or organization that has a name, a license from the government (whatever earthly government it may be), fancy church buildings and hirelings for leaders (that is, priests, pastors and teachers on staff with salary), religious garb of any kind, canned prayers and “church services” where you can count on a program of some sort, usually on Sundays as well as other days of the week, when people get all dressed up to “attend”, various “ministries” specializing in youth, college and career, children, the slums of cities, etc., that structure or organization is not the church of God.
The Best defintion of what Im refering is stated above.
http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/church.htm

>“Not of God” I refer to as not being fashioned by God or “without earthly banner or government legalization or registration.”

For Now I will focus on the Scriptural warrents to affirm my Resolution.

1. Today's Churchs is not the Temple of God.
Many Claim that: “The “House of God” is a building that the church organization has created to worship and hear the word of God, however its unscriptural.
Lets compare whats actualy going on with the church building and to what scriptures claims.

A. The House of God according to the Church:
A Building that is created for worship first of all requieres of course money, and permits to create such a place from the governing City.   If Its not a building its a special place in someones house that one keeps clean because its “God's temple”.
Its stamped with a Church Logo and made to be filled for the masses of people that may come.
It is man-made designed to make one feel comfortable and of course consists of a stage for the “speaker” to speak from.
This is a place where members gather to hear from a particular speaker and worship typically in the front of the church where the “spirit of God” moves the most.  Where people dance and cry and go through so many various emotions, some vomit, some do strange things.  Some say to receive healings other say they have been delievered from demons or have received prophecy.

The True Church described in the scriptures, not only has nothing to do with what was stated above but paints a entirely different picture of how things should be.  

B. God's Temple Dwells in You.   God is the God of the Individual and not solely a mass of people. Ephesians 2:21,22
21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
This is a Spiritual matter, a Personal matter between you and God, but of course not a isolated matter.   The Bible presents the Plans and ambition of God wanting to have a zealous people for Himself, a Holy Nation.  Which is why God called Abraham alone into the wilderness.   Out of nothing He will create something that is beyond the number of stars.  Where He finally presented what He wanted is to “And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God. (Exodus 29:45)
Leviticus 26:12
“And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.”
God presents that His temple is being amoung us, not located in a certain place.  We are His Temple.   Just as the Tabernacle was not located, but a moving Temple with the people, its the same way John records:  “….Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. ” (Revelatinos 21:3)

C. The Temple According to Jesus:
One of Jesus's absurd remarks about the Temple of God is when He calimed to be “… able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days. (Matthew 26:61)”
Of course Jesus wasn't referring to a building or a physical temple, but His body in which God Dwells in I.E. (Immanuel).
Also Jesus States:“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Matthew 16:18
But we know that This Rock is God.  The Rock of our Salvation, and that Peter is an individual who became Jesus Diciple to carry on the gospel after this Death and Ressuerction.
So of Course again, this Temple or Church must be something more than a “house of worship” and something more “for the Masses to come into”  but in fact a personal intimicay with your Lord and Savior individually and Assembling yourselves not as a legetitamte organization in the world but as ones who know God and love eachother and do His Will.  

In fact Jesus states his desire that we may all be ONE “John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. “

We also know that Todays churchs are not doing this because they all have thier own seperate building, living thier own seperate vision and purpose.
They have seperated themselves from eachother living thier own imaginations using “some truth” to legitmatize thier deciet.
Using a Name other than the “name above all names” is not identifying ones self with the Lord.

In summ up my point, the “House of God” that people claim to come to worship God in, and claim to learn from the Lord is a Lie.  The Truth is People have come to worship the Church and the Idea of Church.   Its Idolatry.

2. The Church Authority is not The Authority of God.
The Authority that Men excerise within the Church is not only abusive but diabolical.
Now Typicaly the authority in which the Church is governed by is through:
1. Pastors 2. Goverment 3. Parlimentry procedure 4. People 5. Propehts 6. Apostles and etc.

Its clear that even Peter holds that Christ is the Chief Shepherd.
   1 Peter 5:4
   And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

However The final authority in all things within a church comes down to one man per ministry?  That per church organization through the basic “chain of command” comes down to one man pulling the strings, to Lord over all.

Each Authority abuser receives money from the sheep and acts as Lord over them.
There has been even countless examples where a particular Pastor would lord over the Wife and house
hold of the Man of the House and Lord over his wife.
In other words eventually Lording over the Man as well.

It should not be this way for there is only One Lord.
I liked what Victor stated in his Article that “He sends His apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers to feed His sheep. Sent of God, they feed the sheep what they receive from the Chief Shepherd, not lording it over them but being an example to them.”

Where now we call these men “servants of God” when in fact its quite the opposite.  These Servants are like Kings amoung the congregation while the servants serve the servants?
Its ridiculous.

Even Paul whom was not below Peter nor above him had a direct relationship where they could count on eachothers corrections.
Jesus Christ Mark 9:35
And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

In this case these Authority abusers are not “servants of all” but are like Kings over an enslaved people.  

And the things that the Authority abusers have you do, are not things that Christ would do.
Like Victor says here Tell me, when did you ever hear or read of Jesus wearing religious garb or His disciples wearing any? Was it not those with religious garb who killed Him and His followers? When did Jesus call for “church” buildings? When His disciples were impressed with and remarked on the structural magnificence of the temple, did He not downplay such?

Did He ever indicate to them that they should build their own when the temple was destroyed? Did He call on His disciples to have titles? Did He ever institute formal ceremonies or rituals? Did He encourage any of the religious garbage you see today? Not in the very least. In fact, it was people with those very kinds of things who were His greatest opposition, and men killed Him because He testified against the world.
We should ask ourselves why do we do the things we do at church and whom Came up with it, because surely the things we do are not only unbiblical but not ordained by God.

These Abusers are the same Characters that Jesus spoke against which are the Pharasis, and scribes.

They say true things, but don't do it.  They live ever learning about scripture but do not know whom the scriptures speak of which is the True Gospel, the True word of God, whom is Jesus Christ.

Its the same ministry that Jesus spoke against, yet its what’s popular in these days.
People come together to see Benny Hin, and other men like him, so they can hear the Word of God for themselves, in which they exchange the Image of the incorruptible God into worshipping the creature.

These people end up worshipping the wicked servants, hoping for Gods word.

Doesn't this situation sound familiar?

Matthew 7:
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[For now Ill End it Here because I believe it's too long, however I will probably post more points to prove the resolve Later]

[terraricca]

dennison

this is very good and agree to it

i will add if religion would have made disciples for God and Christ they would not have been so rich today.

Jn 4:21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

with in those rules where is the worshiping done?
in the spirit and the heart of a person

Pierre

[SimplyForgiven]

Hi WJ,

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Hi Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 07 2011,00:23) Dennison Okay, but you would have to prove that the “observational points” apply to the assembly of believers or the churches you speak of. So lets look at them one at a time young man.

I think my Defintion of terms above solve that dilema, and clarifys exactly to what I refer too.   In my rants I didnt give much warrants nor enough clarfication for you to understand what im trying to point out, however thats my faults and irresponisble on my part.  Now with this thread and from what Ive posted, and what im going to post later should solve most of the misconceptions you have so that we can continue to iron out our differences.

So either way I will respond what I can, unless I am convinced that the Intitial thread already answers it.

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How is this different than the early churches like the seven churches in Revelations or the church of Corinth or church of Philippi etc, except that we have more of them?

From the begining it was different based on the ministry of the Apostals.  As many of them went far and wide to preach the gospel, and were hunted down of course hated amoung the nations.  but of course the Church of those days doesnt match the defintion of terms i give above.

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Didn't the NT churches have names? See above.

I dont believe the Church of Corinth had a big sign to welcome everyone and also have thier own set logo.  
Paul was writing to the people, the body, not the organization, in which we have now.

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Paul was the overseer of the churches he started and had the authority from God to set certain things in order.

Paul was not Lord over his church.  Actually he was servant of God, and worked so that he doesnt have to be a hinderance to the people.  And Pauls church wasnt against the Church of Ephesus, or the Church of Philipi or wasnt set to aquire more membership in competition with Peters and the 12 Apostals.
They were ONE BODY.
They werent divided amoung eachother, until of course the Nicolites.

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Well look again because not all churches require membership. Many assemblies take place in store fronts, warehouses, schools, and homes and do not require you to be a member on some list of membership. Most require that you are proven and tested as faithful before you are able to teach in ministry or have a place of leadership in the church and that is scriptural.

I would again state that the True church is Us.  We are that living and moving temple,  we are the church 24/7.  
God is not stuck in some distant temple, He is Immanuel, God with us, and always will be.  
How is it that we are proven and tested? by whoms standards?
The Scriptures state otherwise:
1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Shouldnt one have discernment from God to know who is our brothers and who is not?
What test did moses have to take before being ready to tell the pharaoh to let his people go?
What test of leadership does one have to take ?
God is sovereighn over all of this, and If He tells you to go, than you will go.  

(WJ, by your standards to teach, I was able to decieve so many pastors, and preachers, and impressed the best of them.  They are blind about the heart of the believer.)

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How do you know that? Kathi admits she is not a Trinitarian yet she goes to a Trinitarian church and fellowships with them as believers in Christ. It is true that if someone doesn’t agree with the basic doctrine of a church then they will not stay or if they do agree they may stay. But in no way does it mean that “they only listen” to one mans interpretation. I have yet to see a person agree with everything the Pastor believes or any member of the assembly for that matter. Besides if we had to have complete unity in the faith to assemble together then we would never obey the scriptures that teach us to assemble. The churches have more than a Pastor, for they have elders, teachers and associate Pastors. The churches I have been to have not been a one man show.

Than Kathi lives in a deluded state.  It makes no sense to go to church and than say “we dont agree with certain things” and stay there?  You said yourself that where there “two or three gathered together in agreement, there the Lord will dwell” am I right?
So how is that The church is full of people who disagree, but thats ok because we go for God.  Than according to scripture God ISNT there because they are not in agreement with God whom is “the way, the true, and the life” of all men.

Kieth, your missing the point, that it is a One Mans show, because its all based on Man.  Someone is always pulling the strings of another.  

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So what? Practically everyone today have Bibles yet in the Apostles times that was not the case. The Pulpit is not only for one man but is used by many church members for a place to sit their Bible on to read from or for exhortation, or testimonies. How does a piece of furniture make a church invalid? Is there a scripture that says “thou shalt not have a “pulpit” a piece of furniture to set your Bible and a bottle of water on”?

The Pulpit is taught to be holy.  I have been to many places where the pulpit had to be a certian way because the “man of God” stands there.   The Apostles didnt need a bible, they are the bible, if they didnt do the things they did, than none of it could be written.  First came the Manifestitation than came the recording of it.  
Don't belittle the Idolatry that people have for the Pulpit.   Not only that there isnt a need for it. However one should “Eat the scrolls”
And what the pulpit also represents is a typical service where one speaks from a stage to a mass of people.  Jesus was amoung the people and talked to each person individually.
What need is it to make a custom of speaking from a pulpit.

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And your point is? The NT church met under one roof w hether it was the synagogues, buildings or homes. The point was they “assembled together” which is what the word church means, “an assembly”.

It actually means to be “called out” into a assembly.  Which as nothing to do with what Churchs offer today.  Lets not excuse it.  Each building represents a “seperate” body that is not whole with the other church right by side it.
For example, in houston we have 4 churchs in like one street, each with its own name and purpose.  They are not one church, and even battle for memberships.  This is exactly what im referring to.

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That is not at all true because as we have stated the majority of Christendom (the churches you condemn) today are the ones leading men to Christ and discipling them and feeding the hungry, attending to the needs of the poor, and visiting the widows and the fatherless.

They cannot lead men to Christ unless by Christ they are drawn in.  For example Jesus stated that Peter will be a “fishermen of men” which basically means he will casts his nets and he will catch a bountiful of souls.   Fish however dont have a choice whether they are caught or not, though they may struggle, and the Fishermen only casts his nets out.  
Its God who is in control of it all.  
And again i would say so what? Many people of different nations and beliefs do many “good' things, doesn't set a particular difference between what is of God and what is not.
“Satan comes as an angel of light”?

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First of all you have not established your points as being unscriptural and in fact you did not provide a single scripture for your claims. Come on Dennis, you haven’t made a scriptural point yet and it is disingenuous to stereotype all churches as the same. Don’t get me wrong, I think that denominations have a lot of things wrong but that doesn’t mean that many of those who go to them are not saved or not doing the will or work of God. Was there ever a perfect church or assembly? No. For if there were then when you or I or anyone for that matter walked into it then it would cease to be perfect.

They were simply observational points, in reference to what i was referring to as the “church”.
Now that i have made my points old man, what say you?
You said that there isnt a “perfect church or assembly”
I disagree with you.
John 17
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Ephesians 5:27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The Scriptures teach about Perfection alot.  IF God dwells inside you, than how could you not be perfect?
And if you disagree, than why would Jesus ask you to be perfect as the Father is perfect?
However, thats the point “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” 1 Corinthinas 13:10-12
The Perfection of God is the end of ourselves.

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And just how many hundreds did you not go too? And at “your age” how many churches could you have possibly visited and stayed at for any length of time? Should we believe your generalities without some proof? Because I can tell you that every church I have been in there were people getting  saved, healed and filled with the Holy Spirit and also where they feed the hungry and take care of the poor. I am a living testimony of it.

I think I already solved for the proof on my side.  However I have been to many churchs and took classes side by side by pastors.  They were my friends, my classmates, but in the end i discovered great horrors in my time with them.  
However, your asking me for proof about my generalities (which I already oblidged) Yet what do have to offer me?
You state they are saved? according to who?
Filled with the holy spirit? how are you so sure?
what proof do you have to show me that this is true?

I am also a living testimony “at my age”.  And thank God it happened to me sooner than later.

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If you  don’t mind can you give us more information to substantiate your claims above like what churches you went to and for how long and what you believe was unscriptural and deceiving?

I have already substanitated my claims, but I can tell more about what I have seen later.

Duece,

[Pastry]

Most Churches either believe in the trinity, or they teach Legalistic Government.   Gods Church is neither.   The trinity is a doctrine of men and not of God.  Therefore I agree…
Scripture says in

Mat 15:9   But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.  

As far as others are concerned, I do not judge them,  leave that up to God and Scripture.  I have never heard of a doctrine of a half trinity….
Peace Irene

[SimplyForgiven]

bump for WJ.

[SimplyForgiven]

Pierre,
you made an excellent point, Jesus was clarifying how worship is not in a building or a place but in spirit and truth.

irene,
what does half trinity got to do with it? that doesnt make sense….

[SimplyForgiven]

A Good article to read:
http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/caseforcomingout.htm

The visible, accepted, recognized “churches” of this world are not the true called out ones. They are of the world and the world hears them and loves them. They see no persecution. Men speak well of them. Hear me now: They are not called out by God, but called in by men.

Their leaders are not called of God, but appointed and trained by men. Their ordinations are of this world and not of Heaven. Search the Scriptures and you will find not one man of God undertaking systematic study for a set period of time and receiving some sort of degree or diploma. Not one man of God was put on a salary. Not one man of God was called “Reverend;” Jesus said that we should call no man “Father” (Matthew 23:8-10). Not one man of God served a denomination – not one was a Pharisee, Sadducee, Scribe, Essene or any other sect. Paul the apostle spoke directly against denominationalism (1 Corinthians 1:12-15). All men of God were and are called out, and they came and come from without:

“So the child grew and became strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his manifestation to Israel” (Luke 1:80 EMTV).

[Tim Kraft]

SF: If this truth is new to you, congratulations on revelation knowledge. Doesn't it feel wonderful. May I say, flesh and blood did not reveal that to you. It was our Father in heaven the God our lord Jesus. As you delve deeper in the truth, you will find the physical, brick and mortar so called churches are mostly anti-christ. They say lord, lord but their doctrines of control and ritual are the opposite of Jesus.

Darkness and deception come to steal, kill and destroy the true light. Yet they come as though they are light! God bless your truth, TK

[Rena]

SF, that was a lot of reading, but good on you – well put.

[Tim Kraft]

All: We are the new church. We are the body of Christ. We are the annointed of God. We have the exact same annointing that Jesus had when he came to minister. You cannot GO TO CHURCH ! You are the CHURCH! You can meet in a building but you are the Church, the embodiment of the annointing of God! IMO, TK

[NickHassan]

Hi,
We are each a temple.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 10 2012,19:11)

Hi, We are each a temple.

yes,but did you find the true spirit in it to worship ??

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Baptism in water and the Spirit following Yahshua.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 10 2012,19:38)

Hi T, Baptism in water and the Spirit following Yahshua.

Nick

physical application for the purpose to be save is over no signs no circumcision,but the renewal in the spirit ,born again in the spirit ,the new way to worship God is ;

Jn 4:13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again,
Jn 4:14 but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

Jn 4:22 You Samaritans(gentiles) worship what you do not know; we(Jews) worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

religion like ceremonies for cash,and enslave the flesh,only the Jews have to repent from there blindness,

Pierre

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
You should follow Jesus.
you must be born again of water and the Spirit.

It is not popular.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 10 2012,21:08)

Hi T, You should follow Jesus. you must be born again of water and the Spirit. It is not popular.

Nick

on the contrary it is popular all false religion practice it ,this guaranties their group of membership, proselytes,converts ,

just as the Jews want all Christians to be circumcised ,

No ritual can save you or give you eternal live

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Rituals are not what saves you but obedience to the commands makes Jesus your Lord.
Mere mental assent is not offered as the way of truth in scripture

Why do you call me LORD LORD and not do as I say?

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 11 2012,10:40)

Hi T, Rituals are not what saves you but obedience to the commands makes Jesus your Lord. Mere mental assent is not offered as the way of truth in scripture Why do you call me LORD LORD and not do as I say?

nick

this as been discussed before ,so if you feel that you have to be baptized please find someone that suits you and do it ,

I personally I do not see it that way ,I guess I am more mature ,but do not want to be a stumbling block for others ,so do as your conscience dictate it to you,

Pierre

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
The gospel has rarely been well received

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 11 2012,14:25)

Hi T, The gospel has rarely been well received

nick

the gospel as most of the time been well received ,but it is the believe in the promise that is difficult to accept by many

[Author]

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