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Thanks, seekingtruth, I've been doing some dry runs. I think that I can get the hang of it.
God Bless you–A friend in need is a friend indeed!
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 11 2006,00:59) Nick: I don't know how to do the quote boxes. I'd like to learn.
I agree with you that salvation is in the Son. John 6:54 “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day”. John 6:63 states: It is the spirit that quikeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life”. If we are not abiding in the Son who is the Word of God, then the Holy Ghost does not indwell us. It is sin that indwells us if we are not obeying.
“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin”. (James 4:17) And “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23) and not salvation.
“But and If that servant say in his heart, My Lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes”. (Luke 12:45-47)
HI 94,
First things first.Matt 6
” 33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. “Jn 3
” 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. “No amount of law abiding behaviour can save anyone who has yet to go through the gate of Jesus.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 11 2006,03:12) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 11 2006,00:59) Nick: I don't know how to do the quote boxes. I'd like to learn.
I agree with you that salvation is in the Son. John 6:54 “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day”. John 6:63 states: It is the spirit that quikeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life”. If we are not abiding in the Son who is the Word of God, then the Holy Ghost does not indwell us. It is sin that indwells us if we are not obeying.
“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin”. (James 4:17) And “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23) and not salvation.
“But and If that servant say in his heart, My Lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes”. (Luke 12:45-47)
HI 94,
First things first.Matt 6
” 33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. “Jn 3
” 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. “No amount of law abiding behaviour can save anyone who has yet to go through the gate of Jesus.
Nick:Of course, we cannot be in the body of Christ without first being born again. We have already covered this territory.
Hi 94,
Then the tribunal judgement of the saints is described in Matt 25
” 14For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.15And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
It seems to be according to the profit made through us for the returning Master rather than any record kept of our unresolved imperfections.
Nick:
I am not sure that I understand what you mean by “unresolved imperfections”. God does not remember our mistakes if we repent when we make them but He won't reward us for those mistakes. He does reward us for using whatever he has entrusted to us in his service as is shown by Matt. 25.
“For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; every man's work whall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: (he won't get a reward) but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire”. (1 Co. 3:9-15)
Hi 94,
So the foundation stone of Jesus in our life, built on the rock of the Word, is added to by grace we are given when we seek it.2Peter 1
“1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
12Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
13Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
14Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
15Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. “
Hi 94,
The point is our salvation is by grace.We look to our saviour, not at our own inadequacy and failure.
Our sin is covered by the robe of his righteousness and the sanctification work is by the Spirit.
Zech 3
1And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.2And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
3Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
4And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
5And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by”
Lk 15
” 22But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:”2 Thessalonians 2:13
“But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.”
Heb 12
” 1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”
Hi,
At the end of the tribunal of Christ where he judges the saved he says in Lk 19“26”I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
27″But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence.”
No man wants to have nothing to show for the work of Christ in him.
The Spirit gives us life.
We must allow ourselves to be led by the Spirit.
The Sons of God are led by the Spirit of God.Hi 94,
You say in another thread
“Jesus had to die in order that even the most wicked man on earth could have the opportunity to be saved, and this is good, but also, because he rose again from the dead, it means that every man will be accountable to God for the life that he has lived. Judgment day is coming for all men.”Those in Christ are not judged but have already passed over from death rise to life in the millenial kingdom[Jn 5]and to face the tribunal of Christ, which is according to fruits and not our works.
Hi,
2Cor5
8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
So this tribunal of the saved seems to precede the general judgement as shown in Mt25.
No overconfidence seems to be justifiable among us.Hi,
The parallel verses in Lk 19 seem to indicate the appointment of the sons of God to various authorities in the millenial reign. Surely then this judgement is at the beginning of the reign of Jesus-judgement begins with the household of God.” 13And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities. “
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2005,08:24) Hi,
We who are saved, I believe, escape the general judgement. There is no condemnation for them that are in Christ Jesus. We have passed from death to life. Instead we are raised into the millenium in the first resurrection. We sit as judges too.I believe we face the Tribunal of Christ of 2Cor 5.10, a judgement of reward. I believe it is detailed in the parable of the talents and described just before the general judgement in Matt 25.14f
I would like some feedback on this concept.
NickYou are contradicting yourself, in one sentence you say, we who are in Christ escape the judgment, and in the next you say, we face his tribunal. I never heard it said, judgment of reward.
Are you talking about the first or the second resurrection?
Just what do you think the meaning is of Mat. 25:21? ever wondered who rules in God's kingdom?What does “topical” mean?
Btw, quoting scriptures does not explain what they mean to you.
Georg
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