- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Hi,
We who are saved, I believe, escape the general judgement. There is no condemnation for them that are in Christ Jesus. We have passed from death to life. Instead we are raised into the millenium in the first resurrection. We sit as judges too.I believe we face the Tribunal of Christ of 2Cor 5.10, a judgement of reward. I believe it is detailed in the parable of the talents and described just before the general judgement in Matt 25.14f
I would like some feedback on this concept.
Hi Nick,
I agree with you, The teaching of the sheep and goats to me indicates that we are not the sheep but the sheep are those without the Gospel, those without knowledge of Jesus and they will be judged by their works. Their works reveal their motivate, if their motivation was love, then through that, I believe that God will count it as having fulfilled the law (Romans 13:8 “Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law.”The price for their sins is still covered by the blood of Jesus as it is for all men from Adam on.
Amen ST,
And I think it is detailed in Matt 25.14-30 and Lk19.11-27.The salvation of the sheep in the sheep and goat judgement is according to works. We are not saved by works.
Revelation 20:4 “I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.” I believe that we are those sitting in judgment at the first resurrection. I believe God has shown me that Christians (those at salvation having already passed from death on to life) will arise and are caught up but are not considered “resurrected” (the advantage of the Gospel).
This is one of many reasons I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture (as time allows I hope to post my beliefs there). I believe it is during the beginning of the tribulation that the wedding feast of the Lamb takes place. Seven years latter, the “last”, (tribulation saints) will be resurrected and judged “first”. Then 1000 years later those who were “first” (Adam up to the Gospel) will be resurrected and judged “last”.
I'm open to correction if this is of God, or man.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.All the saved will be priest and will reign with Christ? Only the saved will be in the New Kingdom. So who are all the saved going to judge?
Those who had not worshipped the beast, the remnant, angels, and I believe that during the millenium there will be people capable of errors and needing judges possibly as in established by Moses.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 09 2006,15:23) Those who had not worshipped the beast, the remnant, angels, and I believe that during the millenium there will be people capable of errors and needing judges possibly as in established by Moses.
What are the 144k to do? Only those who are perfect will judge those who are not.You cannot take a splinter out of anyone's eye while you have a log in yours. Unless you are perfect?
When we see Him we will be like Him. I am confused, we have talked about saints on another tread and through PM but are you saying you believe that the 144k are the saints through out the ages? I need to understand better (of course we should probably move to your saints thread).
Hi all:
The verdict for all who have striven to obey God from the beginning until the end will be not guilty, but all will go before the judgment seat of Christ and will be rewarded according to their works.
“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am the Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murders, and idolaters, and whoever loveth and maketh a lie”. (Rev. 22:12-15)
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord”. (1 Thes. 4:16-17)
“If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he will be saved; yet so as by fire”. (1 Co. 3:14-15)
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether good or bad”. (2 Co. 5:10)
Hi 94,
Salvation is not essentially according to works.Rom 1
” 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:11For there is no respect of persons with God.
12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”
Jn 3
” 35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
Lk 13
“1There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.2And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
Salvation is rescue.
Safety is in the Son.Jn 3
“14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. “
1Jn 5
9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
All the verses you quoted from Paul are written about the fate of the saved and not the unsaved.
Hi Nick:
Salvation is not of works to me means that I although I am striving to obey God through the commandments that God has given us through our Lord Jesus that I did not obey him without making many mistakes along the way. If it weren't for the blood of Jesus which cleanses me from sin when I do make a mistake, I would not be saved.
Romans 8:1-4 states: “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit”.
Matt. 7:21 states: “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”.
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 10 2006,22:01) Hi Nick: Salvation is not of works to me means that I although I am striving to obey God through the commandments that God has given us through our Lord Jesus that I did not obey him without making many mistakes along the way. If it weren't for the blood of Jesus which cleanses me from sin when I do make a mistake, I would not be saved.
Romans 8:1-4 states: “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit”.
Matt. 7:21 states: “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”.
Hi 94,
Salvation is in the Son.
It is finished.
Santification is the work of the Spirit in those who are in the Son.
Good fruit is not the result of striving but feeding of the Word and allowing ourselves to be led by the Spirit.Jn 6
“63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:…”The issue is no longer sin and failure and condemnation
for those reborn into the Son,
but obedience, overcoming and triumph
in the power of the Spirit.Zechariah 4:6
Then he said to me, “This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel saying, ' Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' says the LORD of hostsNick:
I don't know how to do the quote boxes. I'd like to learn.
I agree with you that salvation is in the Son. John 6:54 “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day”. John 6:63 states: It is the spirit that quikeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life”. If we are not abiding in the Son who is the Word of God, then the Holy Ghost does not indwell us. It is sin that indwells us if we are not obeying.
“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin”. (James 4:17) And “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23) and not salvation.
“But and If that servant say in his heart, My Lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes”. (Luke 12:45-47)
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 10 2006,19:59) Nick: I don't know how to do the quote boxes. I'd like to learn.
I agree with you that salvation is in the Son. John 6:54 “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day”. John 6:63 states: It is the spirit that quikeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life”. If we are not abiding in the Son who is the Word of God, then the Holy Ghost does not indwell us. It is sin that indwells us if we are not obeying.
“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin”. (James 4:17) And “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23) and not salvation.
“But and If that servant say in his heart, My Lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes”. (Luke 12:45-47)
I use the quote in upper right corner of the box containing the item you want to quote, if you do not want to quote everything then erase everything except the “[quot]” at the beginning, what you want to leave, and then the “[/quot] at the end and it will put only what you leave between the “quotes” in a box. NOTE: I had to drop the “e” from quote to get it to not do it.
If it is a short section just hit the quote box above where you enter your post, type in or copy and paste in what you want to quote, then hit the quote box again.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
