The Ten Commandments

[Morning Star]

Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 28 2007,17:45)

Clement? Im not even sure of. I was going to respond to your Polycarp statement. but I thought NO because incase you didnt notice Youre changing the Topic am I right? This is about the 10 commandments. Dont waste my time. You know the commandments are to be kept but it is so typical for a believer of satan to divert things Hugs Phoenix

Seriously, now why call me a believer in satan?

I am simply trying demonstrate that Christians will continue to argue the bible until Christ returns because of it's ambiguos nature.

There are ways to understand it's teachings and that is found in history.

I believe in the ten commandments. I believe each one has been fulfilled by Christ. He narrowed them and made them actually more difficult to keep. But he then gives us the new “way” which is living by the spirit with the spirit in us so that the burden becomes light.

Each of the 10 commandments has been altered. Read Matthew 5-7 and you will see this.

I will provide one example: We are not only not supposed to murder but we are also not even supposed to hate.

Jesus modified every commandment. Every one agrees and understands this. Yet, their are some who think that the sabbath was the lone solitary commandment that wasn't affected that wasn't narrowed.

Pauls teachings, Jesus's example and the early church fathers all agree that this change was that everday was kept holy as the Sabbath. No longer was one day more special than another but everyday are we to devote to God.

[Phoenix]

I said it because that is exactly what they do… DIVERT, DECEIVE, DIVULGE

Did you read my post about Pauls teachings? obviously NOT.

Quote

Whoever it was that told me to “reject the epistle of paul” Acts 17:2 As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, Paul still observed the Sabbath.. No? Acts 18:4 Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks. I believe this is Paul that observed the Sabbath. No? Also take note… its not just JEWS its Greeks as well!!! Matthew 24:20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. Tell me why would Jesus say that??? Why did he ask us to pray that the abomination will not take place on a Sabbath?? hmm??? I will tell you why…. because he expects the Sabbath to be still observed in the End Times!!!! thats why. And are you doing it? NO!!!

Now is this the Paul and Jesus that YOU are talking about? Or SATAN's Paul and Jesus hmmm?? Jesus did NOT modifiy the commandments he enhanced it theres a difference

[Morning Star]

Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 28 2007,18:08)

I said it because that is exactly what they do… DIVERT, DECEIVE, DIVULGE Did you read my post about Pauls teachings? obviously NOT. Quote Whoever it was that told me to “reject the epistle of paul” Acts 17:2 As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, Paul still observed the Sabbath.. No? Acts 18:4 Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks. I believe this is Paul that observed the Sabbath. No? Also take note… its not just JEWS its Greeks as well!!! Matthew 24:20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. Tell me why would Jesus say that??? Why did he ask us to pray that the abomination will not take place on a Sabbath?? hmm??? I will tell you why…. because he expects the Sabbath to be still observed in the End Times!!!! thats why. And are you doing it? NO!!! Now is this the Paul and Jesus that YOU are talking about? Or SATAN's Paul and Jesus hmmm??

Actually, I would think you would feel some kindredness in the fact that I agree the commandments are to be kept. I guess that isn't the case.

Our only empass is that you believe the Sabbath was unaffected by Christ and I believe he affected that commandment like he did all the others.

If you wish I will continue to discuss with you. But, by the way you respond to posts it seems to me you don't want to consider any evidence contrary to yours.

You simply want to defend your position by accusations that your opponents are directed by Satan.

To answer your question:

Paul went to the synagogues in order to witness to his fellow country men about the messiah. The synagogue on the sabbath was the best day to do that. The men would all be gathered to hear the gospel.

Christ Himself claims He does not know the time of the Second Advent. Whereas in the early section of that chapter he clearly knows the time of the events leading to the destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70. He tells His disciples that certain signs may come, but He knows full well that “the end is not yet. He dogmatically asserts that these things will happen to “this generation”. Thus, He can positively assert 'behold, I have told you in advance”. Jews would still be practicing the Sabbath when that happened. Pray the destruction of the temple doesn't occur on the sabbath.

[NickHassan]

Hi P,
Context.
Both Christ and Paul reached out to both Jew and gentiles.
The mission of Messiah was to the Israelites but God showed him later it also included the gentiles.

Matt 15
” 21Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.

22And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

27And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

28Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.”

Christ answered the questions from Jews regarding the OT Law so you do need to be aware that he is truth and be careful of what you ask.
But when that came to an end he offered the only way of perfection, salvation through faith in him.

Matt 19
” 16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.”

Paul went to reason with the Jews on the sabbath because that is when they assembled to study Torah.

Gentiles were never under the Old Covenant made only with the Jews and so were under conscience and not Law.

Rom 2
” 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11For there is no respect of persons with God.

12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) :”

[music4two]

Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 28 2007,16:26)

Hi Music Quote I am happy to hear you say that. In fact understanding the culture and language of the Hebrews is the first and most important thing one can do to interpret the bible. You see the Eastern cultures (especially the Hebrew culture) were vastly different then those we are used to living in. Trying to understand them from our perspective is a waste of time.  They thought and wrote in ways we cannot understand when we think in Western ways. If you are truly ionterested in learning more, I might suggest you google “Ancient Hebrew research Center” and read some of the pieces written by Jeff Benner. Im sorry Youre not listening to me. I said Let the Bible interpret itself. Why would I waste my time reading what other people write. We are in the End Times NOW why am I going to waste time reading something outside the Bible. All the Answers are in the Bible. Not in some history book. I cant understand why people bring in all these other people whose names are NOT even in the bible and claim… that we should acknowledge them. NO! Hugs Phoenix

OK! So I am to assume then that you are the worlds leading authority on ancient Hebrew writing and culture as well as ancient Greek and it's culture. Furthermore you must have copies ,unknown to anyone else, of the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts from which you study. (by the way there are no real original manuscripts in existance.) This is the only way you can truly ascert that you are studying without man's influince of some sort. Men have copied and translated scriptures for 6,000 years. Unless you have the knowledge and skill to translate the ancient texts yourself, you can only go by another's translations. The fact that you read an English translation is proof that you have chosen a man or men outside of scripture to translate them for you. You have decided that the men who translated the version you use are right and everyone else is wrong. The big problem with that is that all translations lose something in the process. To truly know what is said in scripture you must study the originalk text yourself or rely on others.

[music4two]

Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 28 2007,17:04)

Hi Music Hmmm I havent seen you prove much (in fact anything) with scriptures of the bible. I take it you dont believe in the bible?? Its amazing… why are you here? Here to lure people to believe you? Because they believe in God and not SATAN. Music, are you saying this because you are angry because you cant prove Ken wrong that you have to throw nasty remarks at him?? Are you angry because he throws scripture after scripture at you that you have to TWIST it to say the bible was interpreted by MAN (satans so called agents). Shame on you man. This is the perfect example of someone who cant stand the bible!! Whoever it was that told me to “reject the epistle of paul” Acts 17:2 As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, Paul still observed the Sabbath.. No? Acts 18:4 Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks. I believe this is Paul that observed the Sabbath. No? Also take note… its not just JEWS its Greeks as well!!! Matthew 24:20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. Tell me why would Jesus say that??? Why did he ask us to pray that the abomination will not take place on a Sabbath?? hmm??? I will tell you why…. because he expects the Sabbath to be still observed in the End Times!!!! thats why. And are you doing it? NO!!! Hugs Phoenix

1. So I assume that you have read all of my posts on this forum? If you will do so you will see that I constantly use scripture to back up what I say.
2. The very fact that I (unlike you) research the ancient languages of the scriptures proves that I am truly interested and dedicated to what the original writers of scripture actually meant by their words. I don't guess I research. You should try it sometime.
3. Only the origianal manuscripts can claim inspiration from God. Every copy and interpetation to another language has been done by man. Even assuming these were good men of God with good intentions does not rule out the possibility of mistake. Therefore study as close to the original as you can.

[music4two]

Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,14:59)

The bible was written by the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit teaches and guides us.  Why do we need man to tell us what the scriptures say.  Doesn't the Holy Spirit know what He's doing? If you trust man (Satan's agent) you will be deceived.

Certainly there are false teachers. The bible clearly speaks of these, but to throw out all teachers for fear that you might encounter a false one is silly. Certainly we are to be taught by the Holy Spirit, but this is not just supernaturally from God but also through His human anointed teachers.
To make a generality that all human teachers are agents of satan is nonsense.

Did God appoint agents of Satan?
1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

Did God give agents of satan?
Ephesians 4:11
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,

Does God wish us to aspire to the high calling of agents of Satan/teachers
Hebrews 5:12
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.

Paul and Baranabus taught. Are they Satan’s agents? —
Acts 15:35
But Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch, teaching and preaching with many others also, the word of the Lord.

John the Baptist taught. Is he an agent of Satan?
Luke 11:1
It happened that while Jesus was praying in a certain place, after He had finished, one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray just as John also taught his disciples.”

Apollos, Priscilla and Aquiilla taught. Are they agents of Satan?
 24Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures.

 25This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John;

 26and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.

Levi taught. Is he an agent of Satan?
 5″My covenant with him was one of life and peace, and I gave them to him as an object of reverence; so he revered Me and stood in awe of My name.

 6″True instruction was in his mouth and unrighteousness was not found on his lips; he walked with Me in peace and uprightness, and he turned many back from iniquity.

 7″For the lips of a priest should preserve knowledge, and men should seek instruction from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

Agents os Satan?
Malachi 2:7
“For the lips of a priest should preserve knowledge, and men should seek instruction from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

Fathers? Agents of Satan”
Ephesians 6:4
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Agents of Satan?
1 Thessalonians 4:1
Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more.

Whose instructions? Agents of Satan?
2 Thessalonians 3:14
If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame.

Better not preach, reprove, rebuke, exhort or instruct because you are an agent of Satan.
2 Timothy 4:2
preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction

No one should speak what they have learned because all men are agents of satan.
Titus 2:1
But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine.

Agents of Satan?
 25And he left for Tarsus to look for Saul;

 26and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch And for an entire year they met with the church and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

Truths of God taught by agents of Satan?
1 Cor 2
 12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,

 13which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

Words or letters from agents of satan?
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

Personaly, I am sick of those who are constantly bashing humanity. Generalities like calling all men agents of Satan betray an attitude warned about in scripture.
I find it disconcerting and very sad when I see anyone bashing those whom we are commanded to love.
Matthew 22
 36″Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”

 37And He said to him, ” 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'

 38″This is the great and foremost commandment.

 39″The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'

Perhaps it is just me, but I do not see calling all men agents of Satan a part of loving them.

1 John 2:9
The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now.
1 John 2:11
But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
1 John 4:20
If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.
1 John 3:15
Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

[Phoenix]

Quote

Actually, I would think you would feel some kindredness in the fact that I agree the commandments are to be kept. I guess that isn't the case.

I actually did to be honest. In fact I had it a while back when you were speaking to Ken.

Quote

Our only empass is that you believe the Sabbath was unaffected by Christ and I believe he affected that commandment like he did all the others.

NO now you are definitely wrong there. Not once did I say that Jesus has no affect on the subject. You Liar!! This is the same with your post too Nick. This is where the subject SALVATION comes into play. I do not think that following just Gods Laws will SAVE you. I didnt even say that. Salvation comes only through grace, as a free gift from Jesus Christ, and we receive this gift by faith, not by works. The law serves only as a mirror to point out sin in our lives. Cleansing and forgiveness from that sin come only through Christ. However this subject or topic is not about SALVATION its about the 10 Commandments and the rule that the Sabbath is still Gods Law and still must be observed. Just because Jesus said something different does not mean that you have the right to say that Gods Laws are Obsolete

“Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.” Ecclesiates 12:13. “By the law is the knowledge of sin.” Romans 3:20.

Quote

If you wish I will continue to discuss with you. But, by the way you respond to posts it seems to me you don't want to consider any evidence contrary to yours. You simply want to defend your position by accusations that your opponents are directed by Satan.

What just happened in our discussion this morning. Did you not DIVERT the topic??? What do Satans Followers do?? AND do not forget… youre talking to someone who HATED the Bible just over 2 months ago and who loved being a follower of Satan.

Quote

To answer your question: Paul went to the synagogues in order to witness to his fellow country men about the messiah. The synagogue on the sabbath was the best day to do that. The men would all be gathered to hear the gospel. Christ Himself claims He does not know the time of the Second Advent. Whereas in the early section of that chapter he clearly knows the time of the events leading to the destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70. He tells His disciples that certain signs may come, but He knows full well that “the end is not yet. He dogmatically asserts that these things will happen to “this generation”. Thus, He can positively assert 'behold, I have told you in advance”. Jews would still be practicing the Sabbath when that happened. Pray the destruction of the temple doesn't occur on the sabbath.

Thats right turn the story around. But I will admit though I guess we cant be sure on what specific events Jesus was exactly talking about. IF i remember right… Nick claims to think that Daniel Prophesy of the 7 year tribulation is not here yet. However, where I got that verse from was what Jesus was talking about in verse 15…

15″So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—

And then it goes on till we reach verse 20. So youre right?

Hugs
Phoenix

[Phoenix]

Oh Music… I cant be bothered reading all that yet. You know what? … you can bite all you like at me… when i have studied a book for as long as you have I will have the ammunition to throw it all back at you and I know this. None of you realise how much I have learned in 2 months and I repeat 2 months!! and Look how long I have managed to hold you back… You Pack of Vicious Wolves!!!

God Bless

Phoenix

[kenrch]

Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,16:19)

Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,15:46) Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,15:36) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,14:59) The bible was written by the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit teaches and guides us.  Why do we need man to tell us what the scriptures say.  Doesn't the Holy Spirit know what He's doing? If you trust man (Satan's agent) you will be deceived. I think these are some of the most rediculous statements I have ever seen posted on any of the dozen boards I have seen. Why do you post in English? That is not the Holy Language of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit wrote in ancient Hebrew pictographs . You should not use translations made by Satan's agents. It is helpfull in one respect. I can discount everything you say and so can everyone else, since you are one of Satan's agenst. (your words not mine) We all might as well stop posting because everything everyone has to say is coming from Satan's Agents. Get over it!!!! AH! I'm sorry you feel that way.  In fact I'm sadden that you feel that way.  But more I'm fear for your salvation because you trust in man instead of the Spirit of God. 1Jo 2:27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and  “ye need not that any man teach you”:  but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. You deny the very words oF God? I really must go. Latter IHL, Ken I am saddened for you and fear your salvatin is in peril because you just used an English version of the Bible that was translated by an Agent of Satan. (man) Secondly you interpet within yourself what the Holy Spirit is telling you and you cannot be trusted because you are an agent of satan. (your words not mine) Why don't you admit your hipocracy. What you are really saying is that anyone who does not agree with your edicts of what the Holy Spirit is saying must be learning from man who is an agent of Satan. By what wild stretch of the imagination are you the authority on what is being said by the Holy Spirit to others.  Jeff Benner, who worte the info I posted can as easily say that the Holy Spirit told him his interpretation of the ancient Hebrew is correct as you can say yours is.  I can as easily say that the Pictographs I have interpreted are as much taught by the Holy Spirit as anything you have posted.

Sir I have given you nothing but scripture save the UN-Bias definition of a dictionary.

You have quoted everything but the scriptures and the ones you twisted other scripture has straighten out.

I don't expect everyone to agree with scripture. If everyone did then scripture would be a lie.

Wide is the path to destruction and narrow is the path to righteousness.

Scripture will weed the garden.

[Phoenix]

Quote

1. So I assume that you have read all of my posts on this forum? If you will do so you will see that I constantly use scripture to back up what I say.

Oh sorry then. My bad mistake for not reading ALL your posts!!

Quote

2. The very fact that I (unlike you) research the ancient languages of the scriptures proves that I am truly interested and dedicated to what the original writers of scripture actually meant by their words. I don't guess I research. You should try it sometime

Im sorry did I guess somewhere??

Quote

3. Only the origianal manuscripts can claim inspiration from God. Every copy and interpetation to another language has been done by man. Even assuming these were good men of God with good intentions does not rule out the possibility of mistake. Therefore study as close to the original as you can.

Well You better hurry up and get the manuscripts correctly interpretated because we DO NOT have much time anymore. So FOR NOW?? I will stick to the Bible.

Hugs
Phoenix

[music4two]

Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 28 2007,19:21)

Oh Music… I cant be bothered reading all that yet. You know what? … you can bite all you like at me… when i have studied a book for as long as you have I will have the ammunition to throw it all back at you and I know this. None of you realise how much I have learned in 2 months  and I repeat 2 months!! and Look how long I have managed to hold you back… You Pack of Vicious Wolves!!! God Bless Phoenix

First of all, My priginal comment about agents of Satan as not even directed at you. I was disconcerted with Kenrich generalities that all men are agents of Satan. Then He had the nerve to question my salvation. something I have never done to anyone on this board.
The only thing I did for you was to post a resource you could use in your studies. For that I was blasted had my salvation questioned and was told all human teachers were agents of Satan. I happen to know Jeff Benner (the author of the website I gave you) and if there is a more Godly devout man, I have not met him. Perhaps I am a bit sensitive to those who choose to publish judgements on others they do not know or who use broad generalities against all mankind. Man is a precious commodity to God. so precious that Jesus died for them. Would Jesus die for junk or agents of Satan?

I applaud your dedication to learning truth from God. I too believe in the leading of the Spirit. i also believe there is need for good anointed teachers to help guide us.

If I have offended you, I do appologise. It was not my intention. I think lyou inadvertently got caught up in my frustration with Kenrich's remarks about mankind. and satans agents.

[kenrch]

Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,19:13)

Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,14:59) The bible was written by the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit teaches and guides us.  Why do we need man to tell us what the scriptures say.  Doesn't the Holy Spirit know what He's doing? If you trust man (Satan's agent) you will be deceived. Certainly there are false teachers. The bible clearly speaks of these, but to throw out all teachers for fear that you might encounter a false one is silly. Certainly we are to be taught by the Holy Spirit, but this is not just supernaturally from God but also through His human anointed teachers. To make a generality that all human teachers are agents of satan is nonsense. Did God appoint agents of Satan? 1 Corinthians 12:28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. Did God give agents of satan? Ephesians 4:11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, Does God wish us to aspire to the high calling of agents of Satan/teachers Hebrews 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food. Paul and Baranabus taught. Are they Satan’s agents? — Acts 15:35 But Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch, teaching and preaching with many others also, the word of the Lord. John the Baptist taught. Is he an agent of Satan? Luke 11:1 It happened that while Jesus was praying in a certain place, after He had finished, one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray just as John also taught his disciples.” Apollos, Priscilla and Aquiilla taught. Are they agents of Satan?  24Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures.  25This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John;  26and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. Levi taught. Is he an agent of Satan?  5″My covenant with him was one of life and peace, and I gave them to him as an object of reverence; so he revered Me and stood in awe of My name.  6″True instruction was in his mouth and unrighteousness was not found on his lips; he walked with Me in peace and uprightness, and he turned many back from iniquity.  7″For the lips of a priest should preserve knowledge, and men should seek instruction from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. Agents os Satan? Malachi 2:7 “For the lips of a priest should preserve knowledge, and men should seek instruction from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. Fathers? Agents of Satan” Ephesians 6:4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. Agents of Satan? 1 Thessalonians 4:1 Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more. Whose instructions? Agents of Satan? 2 Thessalonians 3:14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. Better not preach, reprove, rebuke, exhort or instruct because you are an agent of Satan. 2 Timothy 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction No one should speak what they have learned because all men are agents of satan. Titus 2:1 But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. Agents of Satan?  25And he left for Tarsus to look for Saul;  26and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch And for an entire year they met with the church and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. Truths of God taught by agents of Satan? 1 Cor 2  12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,  13which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. Words or letters from agents of satan? 2 Thessalonians 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us. Personaly, I am sick of those who are constantly bashing humanity. Generalities like calling all men agents of Satan betray an attitude warned about in scripture. I find it disconcerting and very sad when I see anyone bashing those whom we are commanded to love. Matthew 22  36″Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”  37And He said to him, ” 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'  38″This is the great and foremost commandment.  39″The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' Perhaps it is just me, but I do not see calling all men agents of Satan a part of loving them. 1 John 2:9 The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. 1 John 2:11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 1 John 4:20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 1 John 3:15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

I really don't think that any apostles were false teachers. However what has happened since the apostles. Why so many denominations? Because MAN has come along and twisted and commented the scriptures to death. If everyone kept the Sabbath there would be no evolution because everyone would be saying God is creator. If everyone kept the Sabbath then they would know God as their Father. If everyone kept the Sabbath they would know that the TEN (not nine) Commandments were not done away with as scripture says. If everyone kept the Ten commandments then you would not need a lock.

Mat 24:12 And because “lawlessness” will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.

Because people would rather listen to men rather than God is the reason the world is the way it is.

[Phoenix]

Quote

Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 28 2007,19:21) Oh Music… I cant be bothered reading all that yet. You know what? … you can bite all you like at me… when i have studied a book for as long as you have I will have the ammunition to throw it all back at you and I know this. None of you realise how much I have learned in 2 months and I repeat 2 months!! and Look how long I have managed to hold you back… You Pack of Vicious Wolves!!! God Bless Phoenix First of all, My priginal comment about agents of Satan as not even directed at you. I was disconcerted with Kenrich generalities that all men are agents of Satan. Then He had the nerve to question my salvation. something I have never done to anyone on this board. The only thing I did for you was to post a resource you could use in your studies. For that I was blasted had my salvation questioned and was told all human teachers were agents of Satan. I happen to know Jeff Benner (the author of the website I gave you) and if there is a more Godly devout man, I have not met him. Perhaps I am a bit sensitive to those who choose to publish judgements on others they do not know or who use broad generalities against all mankind. Man is a precious commodity to God. so precious that Jesus died for them. Would Jesus die for junk or agents of Satan? I applaud your dedication to learning truth from God. I too believe in the leading of the Spirit. i also believe there is need for good anointed teachers to help guide us. If I have offended you, I do appologise. It was not my intention. I think lyou inadvertently got caught up in my frustration with Kenrich's remarks about mankind. and satans agents.

I realise that after I posted. I have kids… and I had to hurry up and get them to school. So I didnt see who it was addressed to. But still. I wasnt just talking to you.. I was talking all those that direct their posts at me. I could really do with a smoke right now

Hugs
Phoenix

[kenrch]

Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 28 2007,17:57)

Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 28 2007,17:45) Clement? Im not even sure of. I was going to respond to your Polycarp statement. but I thought NO because incase you didnt notice Youre changing the Topic am I right? This is about the 10 commandments. Dont waste my time. You know the commandments are to be kept but it is so typical for a believer of satan to divert things Hugs Phoenix Seriously, now why call me a believer in satan? I am simply trying demonstrate that Christians will continue to argue the bible until Christ returns because of it's ambiguos nature.   There are ways to understand it's teachings and that is found in history. I believe in the ten commandments.  I believe each one has been fulfilled by Christ.  He narrowed them and made them actually more difficult to keep.  But he then gives us the new “way” which is living by the spirit with the spirit in us so that the burden becomes light. Each of the 10 commandments has been altered.  Read Matthew 5-7 and you will see this.   I will provide one example: We are not only not supposed to murder but we are also not even supposed to hate.   Jesus modified every commandment.  Every one agrees and understands this.  Yet, their are some who think that the sabbath was the lone solitary commandment that wasn't affected that wasn't narrowed. Pauls teachings, Jesus's example and the early church fathers all agree that this change was that everday was kept holy as the Sabbath.  No longer was one day more special than another but everyday are we to devote to God.

Since we are in the discussion I assume you are speaking of me. LOL!

“Yet, their are some who think that the sabbath was the lone solitary commandment that wasn't affected that wasn't narrowed”.

Not at all Jesus made the Sabbath spiritual. You yourself said that “you don't think even the Jews keep the Sabbath like that”.
I replied of course they don't because they don't believe in the one who made the law spiritual. Remember?

Truth is you can't keep the Sabbath the way Jesus wants us too everyday now can you?

[kenrch]

Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,19:46)

Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 28 2007,19:21) Oh Music… I cant be bothered reading all that yet. You know what? … you can bite all you like at me… when i have studied a book for as long as you have I will have the ammunition to throw it all back at you and I know this. None of you realise how much I have learned in 2 months  and I repeat 2 months!! and Look how long I have managed to hold you back… You Pack of Vicious Wolves!!! God Bless Phoenix First of all, My priginal comment about agents of Satan as not even directed at you. I was disconcerted with Kenrich generalities that all men are agents of Satan. Then He had the nerve to question my salvation. something I have never done to anyone on this board. The only thing I did for you was to post a resource you could use in your studies. For that I was blasted had my salvation questioned and was told all human teachers were agents of Satan.  I happen to know Jeff Benner (the author of the website I gave you) and if there is a more Godly devout man, I have not met him. Perhaps I am a bit sensitive to those who choose to publish judgements on others they do not know or who use broad generalities against all mankind. Man is a precious commodity to God. so precious that Jesus died for them. Would Jesus die for junk or agents of Satan? I applaud your dedication to learning truth from God. I too believe in the leading of the Spirit. i also believe there is need for good anointed teachers to help guide us. If I have offended you, I do appologise. It was not my intention. I think lyou inadvertently got caught up in my frustration with Kenrich's remarks about mankind. and satans agents.

Hey! If their teachings line up with the word of God then sure I will listen to that part of what they said. Problem is not everyone can't descern Satan's lies. Every denomination has some truth but at their core is a lie.

But if you are going to quote evryone and everything but scripture and then the little scripture you do quote is twisted (because your teachers are twisted men) to try and nullify the word of God when there are more than enough scriptures saying the same thing: “Keep the Commandments of God”.

Just give me scripture that says different. That's all you have to do is scripturely prove your teaching. But you haven't and cannot because it's not in the BIBLE. Now is it?

[music4two]

Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,19:33)

Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,16:19) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,15:46) Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,15:36) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,14:59) The bible was written by the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit teaches and guides us.  Why do we need man to tell us what the scriptures say.  Doesn't the Holy Spirit know what He's doing? If you trust man (Satan's agent) you will be deceived. I think these are some of the most rediculous statements I have ever seen posted on any of the dozen boards I have seen. Why do you post in English? That is not the Holy Language of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit wrote in ancient Hebrew pictographs . You should not use translations made by Satan's agents. It is helpfull in one respect. I can discount everything you say and so can everyone else, since you are one of Satan's agenst. (your words not mine) We all might as well stop posting because everything everyone has to say is coming from Satan's Agents. Get over it!!!! AH! I'm sorry you feel that way.  In fact I'm sadden that you feel that way.  But more I'm fear for your salvation because you trust in man instead of the Spirit of God. 1Jo 2:27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and  “ye need not that any man teach you”:  but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. You deny the very words oF God? I really must go. Latter IHL, Ken I am saddened for you and fear your salvatin is in peril because you just used an English version of the Bible that was translated by an Agent of Satan. (man) Secondly you interpet within yourself what the Holy Spirit is telling you and you cannot be trusted because you are an agent of satan. (your words not mine) Why don't you admit your hipocracy. What you are really saying is that anyone who does not agree with your edicts of what the Holy Spirit is saying must be learning from man who is an agent of Satan. By what wild stretch of the imagination are you the authority on what is being said by the Holy Spirit to others.  Jeff Benner, who worte the info I posted can as easily say that the Holy Spirit told him his interpretation of the ancient Hebrew is correct as you can say yours is.  I can as easily say that the Pictographs I have interpreted are as much taught by the Holy Spirit as anything you have posted. Sir I have given you nothing but scripture save the UN-Bias definition of a dictionary. You have quoted everything but the scriptures and the ones you twisted other scripture has straighten out.   I don't expect everyone to agree with scripture.  If everyone did then scripture would be a lie. Wide is the path to destruction and narrow is the path to righteousness. Scripture will weed the garden.

I have not seen you post one single Hebrew or Greek scripture. What you have posted is English translations of the original scriptures. Translations which, according to you, are made by “agents of Satan/man”. My original post on this thread was all about scripture. It was about understanding the Hebrew scriptures by which we derive our English verses. in particular it was about the verses concerning the 10 comandments, the subject of this thread. My point then and and still is, is that without a real understanding of what the Holy Spirit inspired and actually wrote (Hebrew and Greek) you cannot claim a positive understanding of scripture.
You can throw around all the English scripture you want, but unless you have the same understanding from the original languages that the Holy Spirit wrote in, you can be in great error.

I do not deny that we should all be led by the Spirit, but I also believe God can lead and annoint others to teach us.
What I do find at fault in your comments is your generalities that all men or at least all teachers are agents of Satan.
Secondly it is not appreciated when you question my salvation.

[kenrch]

Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,20:13)

Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,19:33) Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,16:19) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,15:46) Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,15:36) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,14:59) The bible was written by the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit teaches and guides us.  Why do we need man to tell us what the scriptures say.  Doesn't the Holy Spirit know what He's doing? If you trust man (Satan's agent) you will be deceived. I think these are some of the most rediculous statements I have ever seen posted on any of the dozen boards I have seen. Why do you post in English? That is not the Holy Language of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit wrote in ancient Hebrew pictographs . You should not use translations made by Satan's agents. It is helpfull in one respect. I can discount everything you say and so can everyone else, since you are one of Satan's agenst. (your words not mine) We all might as well stop posting because everything everyone has to say is coming from Satan's Agents. Get over it!!!! AH! I'm sorry you feel that way.  In fact I'm sadden that you feel that way.  But more I'm fear for your salvation because you trust in man instead of the Spirit of God. 1Jo 2:27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and  “ye need not that any man teach you”:  but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. You deny the very words oF God? I really must go. Latter IHL, Ken I am saddened for you and fear your salvatin is in peril because you just used an English version of the Bible that was translated by an Agent of Satan. (man) Secondly you interpet within yourself what the Holy Spirit is telling you and you cannot be trusted because you are an agent of satan. (your words not mine) Why don't you admit your hipocracy. What you are really saying is that anyone who does not agree with your edicts of what the Holy Spirit is saying must be learning from man who is an agent of Satan. By what wild stretch of the imagination are you the authority on what is being said by the Holy Spirit to others.  Jeff Benner, who worte the info I posted can as easily say that the Holy Spirit told him his interpretation of the ancient Hebrew is correct as you can say yours is.  I can as easily say that the Pictographs I have interpreted are as much taught by the Holy Spirit as anything you have posted. Sir I have given you nothing but scripture save the UN-Bias definition of a dictionary. You have quoted everything but the scriptures and the ones you twisted other scripture has straighten out.   I don't expect everyone to agree with scripture.  If everyone did then scripture would be a lie. Wide is the path to destruction and narrow is the path to righteousness. Scripture will weed the garden. I have not seen you post one single Hebrew or Greek scripture. What you have posted is English translations of the original scriptures. Translations which, according to you, are made by “agents of Satan/man”. My original post on this thread was all about scripture. It was about understanding the Hebrew scriptures by which we derive our English verses. in particular it was about the verses concerning the 10 comandments, the subject of this thread. My point then and and still is, is that without a real understanding of what the Holy Spirit inspired and actually wrote (Hebrew and Greek) you cannot claim a positive understanding of scripture. You can throw around all the English scripture you want, but unless you have the same understanding from the original languages that the Holy Spirit wrote in, you can be in great error. I do not deny that we should all be led by the Spirit, but I also believe God can lead and annoint others to teach us. What I do find at fault in your comments is your generalities that all men or at least all teachers are agents of Satan. Secondly it is not appreciated when you question my salvation.

Let me see if I understand you. God allows His word to be mistranslated into another language. Who determines what mistakes God made LOL! MAN

[Morning Star]

Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 28 2007,19:16)

Quote Actually, I would think you would feel some kindredness in the fact that I agree the commandments are to be kept. I guess that isn't the case. I actually did to be honest. In fact I had it a while back when you were speaking to Ken. Quote Our only empass is that you believe the Sabbath was unaffected by Christ and I believe he affected that commandment like he did all the others. NO now you are definitely wrong there. Not once did I say that Jesus has no affect on the subject. You Liar!! This is the same with your post too Nick. This is where the subject SALVATION comes into play. I do not think that following just Gods Laws will SAVE you. I didnt even say that. Salvation comes only through grace, as a free gift from Jesus Christ, and we receive this gift by faith, not by works. The law serves only as a mirror to point out sin in our lives. Cleansing and forgiveness from that sin come only through Christ. However this subject or topic is not about SALVATION its about the 10 Commandments and the rule that the Sabbath is still Gods Law and still must be observed. Just because Jesus said something different does not mean that you have the right to say that Gods Laws are Obsolete “Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.” Ecclesiates 12:13. “By the law is the knowledge of sin.” Romans 3:20. Quote If you wish I will continue to discuss with you.  But, by the way you respond to posts it seems to me you don't want to consider any evidence contrary to yours.   You simply want to defend your position by accusations that your opponents are directed by Satan. What just happened in our discussion this morning. Did you not DIVERT the topic??? What do Satans Followers do?? AND do not forget… youre talking to someone who HATED the Bible just over 2 months ago and who loved being a follower of Satan. Quote To answer your question: Paul went to the synagogues in order to witness to his fellow country men about the messiah.  The synagogue on the sabbath was the best day to do that.  The men would all be gathered to hear the gospel. Christ Himself claims He does not know the time of the Second Advent. Whereas in the early section of that chapter he clearly knows the time of the events leading to the destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70. He tells His disciples that certain signs may come, but He knows full well that “the end is not yet. He dogmatically asserts that these things will happen to “this generation”. Thus, He can positively assert 'behold, I have told you in advance”.  Jews would still be practicing the Sabbath when that happened. Pray the destruction of the temple doesn't occur on the sabbath. Thats right turn the story around. But I will admit though I guess we cant be sure on what specific events Jesus was exactly talking about. IF i remember right… Nick claims to think that Daniel Prophesy of the 7 year tribulation is not here yet. However, where I got that verse from was what Jesus was talking about in verse 15… 15″So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—   And then it goes on till we reach verse 20. So youre right? Hugs Phoenix

Pheonix,

I thought you were saying that Jesus didn't effect the sabbath. I am sorry.

I would like it if you would stop calling me names like agent of satan and liar.

If I make a mistake then I try and correct it. Lets get back to developing a bond while we learn.

Touching on the subject with Nick.

I don't think that you get saved by following the commandments. That is by faith.

However, you remain saved by abiding in Christ and following his commandments. Those who endure to the end shall be saved. Those who do not abide in the true vine and cut off and tossed into the fire.

So I am in no way saying the laws are obsolete. They are very important. If you do not follow the commands you are not abiding in Christ.

Once again the only difference that I can detect is the understanding of what Christ's teachings on the sabbath were.

Ken, brings up the idea of it being spiritual since we cannot perfectly keep it as being Jesus's change or narrowing of the sabbath. Though he maintains it stayed a saturday observation.

My position is that the sabbath is spiritual and has been made an everday rest in Christ. We are to daily devote our whole being to God. While we work, we work as if for the Lord. While we love our family we love them as brothers and sisters in the Lord. While we visit with neighbors as ambassidors for the Lord. Everything is done with the ultimate purpose in mind. No more division between sacred and mundane.

[music4two]

Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,20:09)

Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,19:46) Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 28 2007,19:21) Oh Music… I cant be bothered reading all that yet. You know what? … you can bite all you like at me… when i have studied a book for as long as you have I will have the ammunition to throw it all back at you and I know this. None of you realise how much I have learned in 2 months  and I repeat 2 months!! and Look how long I have managed to hold you back… You Pack of Vicious Wolves!!! God Bless Phoenix First of all, My priginal comment about agents of Satan as not even directed at you. I was disconcerted with Kenrich generalities that all men are agents of Satan. Then He had the nerve to question my salvation. something I have never done to anyone on this board. The only thing I did for you was to post a resource you could use in your studies. For that I was blasted had my salvation questioned and was told all human teachers were agents of Satan.  I happen to know Jeff Benner (the author of the website I gave you) and if there is a more Godly devout man, I have not met him. Perhaps I am a bit sensitive to those who choose to publish judgements on others they do not know or who use broad generalities against all mankind. Man is a precious commodity to God. so precious that Jesus died for them. Would Jesus die for junk or agents of Satan? I applaud your dedication to learning truth from God. I too believe in the leading of the Spirit. i also believe there is need for good anointed teachers to help guide us. If I have offended you, I do appologise. It was not my intention. I think lyou inadvertently got caught up in my frustration with Kenrich's remarks about mankind. and satans agents. Hey! If their teachings line up with the word of God then sure I will listen to that part of what they said.  Problem is not everyone can't descern Satan's lies.  Every denomination has some truth but at their core is a lie.   But if you are going to quote evryone and everything but scripture and then the little scripture you do quote is twisted (because your teachers are twisted men) to try and nullify the word of God when there are more than enough scriptures saying the same thing:  “Keep the Commandments of God”. Just give me scripture that says different.  That's all you have to do is scripturely prove your teaching.  But you haven't and cannot because it's not in the BIBLE.  Now is it?

I think you mistake my comments with someone else. I have never (to my knowledge) said we should not keep the commandments. My original post was about a richer understanding of what that means. It was about understanding the meaning of the Hebrew words.translated concerning the 10 commandments.
I think you have me mixed with another on this thread.

did you dissagree with those interpretations of the Hebrew?
For example, I gave a Hebrew deffinition of Commandment as being – “direstions toward Zion”. This is preciesely the Herew concept Jesus taught when asked how to get eternal life. Jesus said follow the commandments/directions toward Zion. Do you dissagree with this deffinition? If so. i am more then willing to entertain your concepts of the Hebrew meaning of that word.
i also used the deffinition of Keep as to guard and protect. The concept of guarding and protecting was a very serious and important idea to the Hebrews. Do you dissagree with that? Again show me your Hebrew scholarship. I could be wrong. Show me.

Some on these boards are so busy throwing out English translations of scripture, they never stop to consider if the scriptures they so verbosely throw out rally mean what they think they mean in their original languages. From my original post untill now that is still my point.

[Author]

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