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Hi Nick
then there has to be a contradiction somewhere…
Malachi 3:6
For I am the Lord, I change not.Hugs
PhoenixPS: sorry i havent had the chance to check that chapter you showed me but I will after. I promise
Hi P,
God does not change.
But how He judges the sabbath to be fulfilled for those in Christ is the question.Hi Nick
No. I dont think so
“It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.” Luke 16:17.
“My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.” Psalms 89:34.
“All his commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever.” Psalms 111:7, 8.
The Sabbath is ONE TITLE of the Commandments.
They were SET in STONE for a reason. They were transferred to our Hearts and Mind.“Think not that I am come to destroy the law. … I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. … Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Matthew 5:17, 18.
till all be fulfilled? I think he meant till the new kingdom comes.
“19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Hugs
PhoenixTo you see how the commandments have been narrowed?
The sabbath is not suppost to be done away.
Rather it is a state of everyday living, where all things are done in sanctity and nothing is done profanely?
All the commandments became narrower.
This is how the early Christians understood the Sabbath and once understanding this from their perspective go back and reread the epistles of Paul.
The only ones historically who kept the sabbath were the Ebionites or those who did not except the epistles of Paul.
It's history, we could choose to reject Paul's writings.
These same individuals who kept the Sabbath also did not believe in the virgin birth and they only used the Gospel of Matthew.
Hi MS
What does Sabbath mean??
1. the seventh day of the week, Saturday, as the day of rest and religious observance among Jews and some Christians. Ex. 20:8–11.
Some?? Sheesh how tragic
2. the first day of the week, Sunday, similarly observed by most Christians in commemoration of the Resurrection of Christ.
Even worse!!
3. any special day of prayer or rest resembling the Sabbath: Friday is the Muslim Sabbath.
Ok well … this is when you look back in Exodus where God explains this more in depth
4. (sometimes lowercase) a period of rest.
Ok as I explained above
5. (sometimes lowercase) Demonology. Sabbat.
Woah!! seriously?
Exodus 20:8-11
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.Not every day as you claim
Hugs
PhoenixHi P,
The followers of Jesus as well as the Master himself were judged for failure to observe the sabbath.Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 27 2007,23:35) Then reject Gods Law like all those nonbelievers Bleh typos
I dont reject it I believe in following the fulfilled version.Which is stricter and narrower.
Before one begins to understand the 10 commandments, it would be wise to understand from a Hebrew perspective what a commandment is in their culture.
The Hebrew word for commandment is mits’vah. Most churches today, based on Western understanding of the English translations, lose the real meaning of the word. Mits’vah is not a rule, command, regulation or law. Rather the mits’vah or commandments are directive or guides to help us find our way. It is often used in conjuction with the word tsiyon which is “Zion”. So the commandments are directions to Zion.For a look at one commandment from a Hebrew perspective allow me to post a page from the Ancient Hebrew Research Center.
Exodus 20:7
By: Jeff A. Benner
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vainTake (Strong's #5375)
The Hebrew verb behind this English word is
(nasa) and is a very generic verb used in a wide variety ways in the text. This word has been translated as lift, carry, accept, exalt, regard, obtain, respect and many other ways. In the context of this verse it is the “name” that is being “lifted up.” One lifts up a name by making it known to others. Name (Strong's #8034)
In our modern western culture a name is nothing more than an identifier, really no different than being assigned a number. The Hebrew word for a name is ?? (shem) But, in the Ancient Hebrews culture the “shem” is much more than just a name it is the “breath” of the individual. To the Hebrews the breath is more than just the exchange of air in the lungs it is his “character,” the internal qualities of an individual that make him unique. This idea of the word shem meaning character can be seen in 1 Kings 4:31, “and his fame was in all the nations round about.” Here, the word fame is understood as his “character.”
All Hebrew names are words with meaning and these words reflects their characters. For instance, Eve (Hhavah in Hebrew) means “life” because she is the mother of all the living (Hhay, a related word to Hhavah, see Genesis 3:20). The names for God is no different. The name Yahweh means “he exists” and God (Elohiym) means “one of power and authority.” Some other names of God include “Jealous” (Exodus 34:14), “One” (Zechariah 14:9 which literally reads “his name is one”), Holy (Isaiah 57:15) and others. What is God's name? Most will answer with Yahweh or God but we must remember that a name or shem in Hebrew is the character of the individual so the correct question should be “What is God's character?”Vain (Strong's #7723)
The third word that we need to understand correctly is the word “vain.” This is the Hebrew word (sheva). This word literally means “empty” and vain actions are empty of substance. This word can also be understood as “falsely” in the sense of being empty of its true substance. This idea can be seen in Exodus 23:1, “You shall not utter a false report.” The word “false” is the very same Hebrew word (sheva).
Now that we have a more complete understanding of the words in the passage we are able to make a more Hebraic interpretation.
You shall not represent the character of Elohiym FalselySo, what does this mean? In another study we saw that when it says “God created man in his own image” it is in fact saying that God had placed within us a representation of himself. This representation is his shem or character and we are to show this character to others. If however, we represent that character falsely, in other words live our lives contrary to the character of God, then we are violating this command.
I hope that sheds a bit of light on the subject.
Hi Music
Im worn out. I dont even want to know what strongs definition is on the words in the bible.
LET THE BIBLE INTERPRET ITSELF!!!
Amen
Thats all i can say to that.
Hugs
PhoenixQuote Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 27 2007,23:35)
Then reject Gods Law like all those nonbelieversBleh typos
I dont reject it I believe in following the fulfilled version.
Which is stricter and narrower.
I dont even wanna talk to you. If its ok for you to throw insults at me I will throw it back. I dont reject Pauls writings either he is just hard to understand like Peter said…. But I think Id rather follow God not Paul. God has made it clear right through the WHOLE bible about his commandments even in Revelations
Like I said above Let the Bible interpret itself… not some History book.
Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 28 2007,01:59) LET THE BIBLE INTERPRET ITSELF!!![/b]
I agree with your statement. However, I do have a question for you. Do you think it is necessary to understand the original language the verse is written in? Do you think it is important to understand the culture in which the writers of verse lived?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2007,18:51) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 27 2007,13:35) MS why is the Sabbath always under attack? If you kept nine but always murder or steal or whatever I would be saying don't murder don't steal. But those commandments NEVER come under attack. Just the forth commandment is attacked why? The forth commandment starts with REMEMBER. Do you vist with the Father all day everyday? Again you cannot that is impossible don't you think God knows that. Try that you may you cannot worship God all day on the other six days that were created for work. I keep the Sabbath. Am I sinning?
Hi kenrch,
Matt 19
“16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18He saith unto him, Which?
Jesus said,
Thou shalt do no murder,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,19Honour thy father and thy mother:
and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.Where is it?
It does not apply to the Lord of the sabbath.
Maybe it's with the other three. You know the first four shows how you
would love the God.
Then James says if you break one you have broken them all.Sin is Sin Nick. Don't you know that?
You keep trying to explain scripture away. Over and over scripture says
keep the commandments.
At one time you said the commandments were for Jews only. Now you are
trying to say Jesus said keep the commandments but one!
Your attempts to discredit the scriptures is not working. So much so that
you are contradicting yourself.IHL,
Ken
Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 27 2007,20:48) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 27 2007,13:55) MS you worship God all day on the other six days.
Love the Lord with ALL your mind. You can't MS how would you work? Part of your mind has to be on your work. Don't you want to vist with your Father ALL day. Your Father has set a day apart blessed it made it Holy. You make all the other days holy?If I'm not sinning by keeping the forth Commandment. And I'm not sinning by not commiting adultery, am I? WELL?
No, I am not perfected.I don't think that I am trying to make all days holy I believe Christ wanted us to do so. We are to be living in the Kingdom of God. We are stuck in the world but are not part of it. Sojourners passing through.
We have entered the Sabbath rest of Christ.
Hebrews 4
1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith.[a] 3Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
“So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.' “ And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. 4For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “And on the seventh day God rested from all his work.”[c] 5And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
6It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. 7Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”[d] 8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
Did you read what that UN-BIAS dictionary said.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2007,21:37) Hi P,
Amen. The only question then is how God sees the sabbath for us who are in Christ. Should men impose rules when scripture says this in Col 2“16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. “
Tell me Nick what does food and drink and moons and feasts and annual Sabbath days have to do with the seventh day Sabbath?What was nailed to the cross?
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of “ordinances” that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
What law did Jesus fulfill?
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
So which laws (Ordnances) were nailed to the cross?
Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,03:49) Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 28 2007,01:59) LET THE BIBLE INTERPRET ITSELF!!![/b]
I agree with your statement. However, I do have a question for you. Do you think it is necessary to understand the original language the verse is written in? Do you think it is important to understand the culture in which the writers of verse lived?
I think that if you have the Holy Spirit to teach and guide you then why
would you need anything that man has written. John 14:16, 26; 15:26.
The bible IS written by the Holy Spirit isn't it?Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 27 2007,23:44) Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 27 2007,23:35) Then reject Gods Law like all those nonbelievers Bleh typos
I dont reject it I believe in following the fulfilled version.Which is stricter and narrower.
By keeping the Sabbath everyday? You are striving to do what God didn't even do! That's why you cannot and never will! You don't think you can out do God do you? God made the other six days to work and that's what you will do.Quote Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 28 2007,01:59)
LET THE BIBLE INTERPRET ITSELF!!![/b]I agree with your statement. However, I do have a question for you. Do you think it is necessary to understand the original language the verse is written in? Do you think it is important to understand the culture in which the writers of verse lived?
Hmmm to be honest Im not sure. I learned from everyone… and Doug Batchelor… he taught me the most. The first time I heard of Strong… was through a Zen Master. So hmm yeah you might be right.
Hugs
Phoenix
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