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Hi
Ok Im not going to mock any further. Well… I can say that I would be happy to let the Sabbath go since I dont want to stop my son from going to scout camps because that would be like taking his psp away from him.
But here is a question… why are christians still worshipping on a Sunday since it was the Catholics that changed it? You cant tell me that Christians follow the Catholics.
And if it is to worship Jesus' resurrection… then please share with me the scripture that says we have to worship his resurrection.
Hugs
PhoenixQuote (Phoenix @ Feb. 26 2007,07:53) Hi Ok Im not going to mock any further. Well… I can say that I would be happy to let the Sabbath go since I dont want to stop my son from going to scout camps because that would be like taking his psp away from him.
But here is a question… why are christians still worshipping on a Sunday since it was the Catholics that changed it? You cant tell me that Christians follow the Catholics.
And if it is to worship Jesus' resurrection… then please share with me the scripture that says we have to worship his resurrection.
Hugs
Phoenix
catholics didnt change it, the early Christians worshipped on sunday. It had NOTHING to do with the sabbath.They didn't replace it.
It was a completely seperate assembly.
The Sabbath was everyday.
Assembling for fellowship, love feasts and the Lord's Supper took place on the Lord's day, sunday, in rememberance of his ressurrection.
It is a myth the catholics instituted this, the earliest of christians practiced this.
Including, Polycarp the bishop of smyrna, who receives praise from Jesus in revelations.
Including Clement of Rome mention by Paul in Phillipians chapter 4, whom he qualified by saying his name was written in the book of life.
Constantine outlawed the sabbath keepers, there were still those who kept it, just as Paul discussed some still did in Galatians.
To repeat the early Christians did not believe sunday replaced the Sabbath. It was a completely “new” assembly. They considered the “rest of the Sabbath” to be an everday event in Christ.
Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 26 2007,02:54) Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 26 2007,02:52) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 26 2007,02:31) Quote Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 26 2007,02:28) Hi kenrch,
Who do you know that does not keep all the commandments?
Does anyone?
We are all works in progress being perfected against high standards by the power of the Spirit.
I believe that's why Jesus died so that when we break the law we would have forgivness. You didn't know that?NOOOOOO!! LOL
“Oh im gonna murder…. Jesus will have forgiveness for me anyway”
NO WAY!!
Hugs
Phoenix
Yes IF you repent. There is only one sin that cannot be forgiven.
Prior to your salvation and baptism yes.After that, if you don't abide in the vine you are cut off. If you commit sins that lead to death then you are cut off and cannot longer be brought back to repentance because you crucify the Son of God all over again and trample under foot the blood of the covenant.
Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 26 2007,08:53) Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 26 2007,07:53) Hi Ok Im not going to mock any further. Well… I can say that I would be happy to let the Sabbath go since I dont want to stop my son from going to scout camps because that would be like taking his psp away from him.
But here is a question… why are christians still worshipping on a Sunday since it was the Catholics that changed it? You cant tell me that Christians follow the Catholics.
And if it is to worship Jesus' resurrection… then please share with me the scripture that says we have to worship his resurrection.
Hugs
Phoenix
catholics didnt change it, the early Christians worshipped on sunday. It had NOTHING to do with the sabbath.They didn't replace it.
It was a completely seperate assembly.
The Sabbath was everyday.
Assembling for fellowship, love feasts and the Lord's Supper took place on the Lord's day, sunday, in rememberance of his ressurrection.
It is a myth the catholics instituted this, the earliest of christians practiced this.
Including, Polycarp the bishop of smyrna, who receives praise from Jesus in revelations.
Including Clement of Rome mention by Paul in Phillipians chapter 4, whom he qualified by saying his name was written in the book of life.
Constantine outlawed the sabbath keepers, there were still those who kept it, just as Paul discussed some still did in Galatians.
To repeat the early Christians did not believe sunday replaced the Sabbath. It was a completely “new” assembly. They considered the “rest of the Sabbath” to be an everday event in Christ.
Sunday sabbath is based on Catholicism. None of the apostles kept the first day instead of the Sabbath day. Just give me scripture that says they did.The whole Sunday thing is based on Jesus being resurrected on Sunday. Where in scripture does it say that?
How nicely that fits with Easter Sunday. Which is a lie! What do bunny rabbits laying eggs have to do with the resurrection of Christ.
How do you get three days and three nights from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning anyway? How nicely this fits their doctrine which is unscriptural.
Mat 12:40 for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
“Prior to your salvation and baptism yes”.
“After that, if you don't abide in the vine you are cut off. If you commit sins that lead to death then you are cut off and cannot longer be brought back to repentance because you crucify the Son of God all over again and trample under foot the blood of the covenant”.
Wow! MS you don't sin you never need forgivness? Do you walk on water too? Yes if you sin and don't repent then you will die in your sin. But their is ONE sin unto death.
Mar 3:29 but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an “eternal sin”:
All others IF you repent will be forgiven. Of course you can't murder someone then say you repent (won't do that again) and go out the next day and murder someone again, then you are guilty not sincerely repenting.
1Jo 1:7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.You are keeping the doctrine of the Harlet and her Daughters. Who are the Harlot's daughters?
And you are in danger of having a millstone tied around your neck.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, it is profitable for him that a great millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depth of the sea.
It doesn't matter how many scriptures say to keep the Ten Commandments does it.
There is just something about that forth Commandment isn't there! I explained why no one wants to keep the Sabbath. For one thing the forth Commandment starts with REMEMBER and so what does Satan do? He tells you don't keep “that old law” but you should keep the other nine. If it wouldn't be so sad it would be funny!
Again, Today in the last days the remnant of the seed (true church) will be Keeping The Commandments Of GOD AND have the testimony of Jesus.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:
Please explain this scripture and while you are at it explain all the other scriptures that say Keep the Commandments. I'm open to the truth Believe me, BUT it must be scriptural.
IHL,
Ken
From a un-bias dictionary:
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In the Bible, the Sabbath is a weekly religious day of rest as ordained by one of the Ten Commandments:” ** the third by Eastern, Roman Catholic and Lutheran numbering, the fourth by other Protestants [See Dan .7:25]”**. The Hebrew word (“šhabbat”, שַׁבָּת, Strong's H7676) means “the [day] of rest (or ceasing)”, as it entails a ceasing or resting from labor. The institution of the Old Testament Sabbath, a “perpetual covenant … [for] the people of Israel” (Exodus 31:16-17-NRSV), was in respect for the day during which God rested after having completed the Creation in six days: Genesis 2:2-3, Exodus 23:12, Isaiah 56:6-8.
In the New Testament, Jesus declared that the Sabbath was made for man's good (Mark 2:27), and that therefore the son of Man is the Lord of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8, Mark 2:28). Jesus, in his teachings, rebuked the Jews, and taught that it was right to do good on the Sabbath (Mark 3:4. Luke 6:9). ***The Sabbath continued to be a time of communal gathering for Christians (Hebrews 10:25), as well as learning the will of God (Acts 15:21). Christians continued to observe the seventh day as holy for centuries after the crucifixion of Jesus***. ***First day observance (also called the Lord's Day, on Sunday) became traditional in the early Christian Church. Catholic (Roman) and then later the Orthodox (Greek) churches officially changed the Saturday Sabbath to the Sunday Sabbath.*** “Catholic as well as many Protestant sources admit freely that this change was based upon the authority of the Church, and has no basis in Scripture.***” [7][8][9][10][11][12][13] **Though greatly reduced in number, some Christians continued to observe the seventh day Sabbath, even up to this day [Rev 12:17]**.“Thus the writer to the Hebrews is saying that since the time of Joshua an observance of the Sabbath rest has been outstanding.” **The literal translation then of Hebrews 4:9 is “Therefore a Sabbath observance has been left behind for the people of God.” Further, the internal evidence of the preceding verses would indicate that the Sabbath observance mentioned in this verse is indeed the seventh day Sabbath and not the Lord's Day Sabbath. In verse 8, the Hebrew writer states, “For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have afterward spoken of another day.” On first glance in our English translations, that word “another” would give the appearance of a different day. However, in the Greek, there are two words that mean “another”. “Heteros” means “another of a different kind”, while “allos” means “another of the same kind”. The word used in Hebrews 4:8 is “allos”, indicating a Sabbath day of the same kind as referred to in Hebrews 4:8-5, that is, the seventh-day Sabbath. In verse 7, the Hebrews writer uses the term “certain day”. The Greek word for “certain” is “tis”. It is clearly referrencing a specific day, and not the general thought of an eternal rest. The force of Hebrews 3:11-4:11 then seems to be saying that because Christians look toward the eternal rest of heaven, the type or shadow of the earthly Sabbath rest still remains, or is “left behind”, literally, for Christians to observe. This is significant, in light of the greater context of the book of Hebrews, which deals with the entire Aaronic priesthood and its methods of worship as found in the Old Covenant being supplanted by the Melchizedek priesthood of Jesus Christ”. As the Hebrews writer states in Hebrews 12:27, “And this word, Yet once more, signifies the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things which have been made, that those things which are not shaken may remain.**”
While it is true that several times the apostles also met on the first day of the week, there is disagreement as to whether they were continuing into the first day (Saturday evening) after having already been gathered for the Sabbath. That would have been the beginning of the first day (Saturday evening, or any day of the week after a High Sabbath) when some activities would have begun that had not been allowed on the Sabbaths (such as preparing a meal, collecting money, and planning for travel). In addition, in the book of Acts, also believed to be written by Luke, meeting on the Sabbath is referred to eight times. Generally the religious festivals, new moons, and accompanying high sabbaths of Leviticus 23, Numbers 28-29, Isaiah 1:13-14, Hosea 2:11, Ezekiel 45:17 and Colossians 2:16-17 were continued to be observed, as can be seen in such passages as Acts 18:21, 1 Corinthians 5:8, 2 Peter 2:13, Jude 1:12, and Acts 27:9. Some Sabbatarians ** believe these High Sabbaths to have been fulfilled by the coming of Christ**, and their misused practice condemned by Isaiah and Hosea. However, there are some who show that these Holy Days are still referenced in the New Testament as observed holy days, and are relevant to Christians.
For example, John in Revelation said he was in the spirit on the Lord's day Revelation 1:10. Scripture reveals that the Lord's day is the seventh day Sabbath in Isaiah 58:13-14.This is the whole definition I didn't delete anything. There are some parts I disagree with, but I wanted all to see that the Sabbath remains for the people of God.
And I like the part where it says that it was the Catholic church that changed the Sabbath they even changed the number of the seventh day commandment. And freely addmit changing the Sabbath and say there is no commandment to change the Sabbath and that the apostles kept the seventh day forth Commandment of God.
IHL,
Ken
Hi ,
Matt 22
“36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
So on which of these two commandments does the sabbath law hang?
Ex 31
“12And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,13Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.”
It was made for man.
It was a sign.Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 26 2007,14:14) Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 26 2007,08:53) Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 26 2007,07:53) Hi Ok Im not going to mock any further. Well… I can say that I would be happy to let the Sabbath go since I dont want to stop my son from going to scout camps because that would be like taking his psp away from him.
But here is a question… why are christians still worshipping on a Sunday since it was the Catholics that changed it? You cant tell me that Christians follow the Catholics.
And if it is to worship Jesus' resurrection… then please share with me the scripture that says we have to worship his resurrection.
Hugs
Phoenix
catholics didnt change it, the early Christians worshipped on sunday. It had NOTHING to do with the sabbath.They didn't replace it.
It was a completely seperate assembly.
The Sabbath was everyday.
Assembling for fellowship, love feasts and the Lord's Supper took place on the Lord's day, sunday, in rememberance of his ressurrection.
It is a myth the catholics instituted this, the earliest of christians practiced this.
Including, Polycarp the bishop of smyrna, who receives praise from Jesus in revelations.
Including Clement of Rome mention by Paul in Phillipians chapter 4, whom he qualified by saying his name was written in the book of life.
Constantine outlawed the sabbath keepers, there were still those who kept it, just as Paul discussed some still did in Galatians.
To repeat the early Christians did not believe sunday replaced the Sabbath. It was a completely “new” assembly. They considered the “rest of the Sabbath” to be an everday event in Christ.
Sunday sabbath is based on Catholicism. None of the apostles kept the first day instead of the Sabbath day. Just give me scripture that says they did.The whole Sunday thing is based on Jesus being resurrected on Sunday. Where in scripture does it say that?
How nicely that fits with Easter Sunday. Which is a lie! What do bunny rabbits laying eggs have to do with the resurrection of Christ.
How do you get three days and three nights from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning anyway? How nicely this fits their doctrine which is unscriptural.
Mat 12:40 for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
“Prior to your salvation and baptism yes”.
“After that, if you don't abide in the vine you are cut off. If you commit sins that lead to death then you are cut off and cannot longer be brought back to repentance because you crucify the Son of God all over again and trample under foot the blood of the covenant”.
Wow! MS you don't sin you never need forgivness? Do you walk on water too? Yes if you sin and don't repent then you will die in your sin. But their is ONE sin unto death.
Mar 3:29 but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an “eternal sin”:
All others IF you repent will be forgiven. Of course you can't murder someone then say you repent (won't do that again) and go out the next day and murder someone again, then you are guilty not sincerely repenting.
1Jo 1:7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.You are keeping the doctrine of the Harlet and her Daughters. Who are the Harlot's daughters?
And you are in danger of having a millstone tied around your neck.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, it is profitable for him that a great millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depth of the sea.
It doesn't matter how many scriptures say to keep the Ten Commandments does it.
There is just something about that forth Commandment isn't there! I explained why no one wants to keep the Sabbath. For one thing the forth Commandment starts with REMEMBER and so what does Satan do? He tells you don't keep “that old law” but you should keep the other nine. If it wouldn't be so sad it would be funny!
Again, Today in the last days the remnant of the seed (true church) will be Keeping The Commandments Of GOD AND have the testimony of Jesus.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:
Please explain this scripture and while you are at it explain all the other scriptures that say Keep the Commandments. I'm open to the truth Believe me, BUT it must be scriptural.
IHL,
Ken
Some Sabbatarian Christians maintain that the Catholic Church changed the day of worship from Sabbath to Sunday, starting with a Sunday law enacted by Constantine the Great (306-337 A.D.) in 321 A.D. The assumption here is that Constantine put into place a religious law. But Constantine did not enact a Christian law, but a civil one. He could not have been a Catholic, since the Catholic Church as was known during the Reformation period was not even formally organized until several centuries later. It is even doubtful that he was even a Christian, though some make that claim. Christians by this time were already meeting together for worship on the first day of the week. Many, if not most, had been doing so for at least a couple centuries before Constantine arrived on the scene. They did not call this day Sunday, but rather referred to it as the Lord's Day, in honor of Christ's resurrection from the dead.The claim by the Catholic Church in some of their catechisms that they changed the sanctity of the Sabbath day to Sunday is not evidence that they actually did so. The New Testament does not anywhere make Sunday holy, neither does it make the Sabbath holy. The emphasis had been taken away from the day and placed on Christ, making the observance of particular days no longer necessary. The Catholic Church claims that Peter was the first Pope. It also claims that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is a co-regent with Christ in Heaven now. It is doubtful that most Sabbatarian Christians, if any at all, believe this. Why accept what the Catholic Church says regarding transferring the sanctity of the Sabbath day to Sunday, while not believing Peter to be the first Pope, or that Mary is a co-regent with Christ in Heaven? Scripture does not really portray Peter to be the first Pope, neither does it say that Mary currently is a ruler with Jesus in Heaven. She was no more a saint than any other Christian. And history does not support statements by the Catholic Church that they changed the day of worship from Sabbath to Sunday. This is an inconsistent argument that fails to ma
ke any sense.The early Christian Church fathers of the 1st and 2nd centuries A.D. did not consider the Sabbath day to be a day all Christians were obligated to observe. They gave a different testimony. While the following epistles and statements are not in Scripture and should therefore not be considered canonical, they help to provide useful historical information regarding prevalent beliefs of the early Church in its first centuries.
Ignatius was bishop of Antioch in Syria (c. 1st-2nd century A.D.) and martyred in Rome by beasts (c. 105-116 A.D.). On his way to Rome, he visited and wrote to various churches, warning and exhorting them. He also wrote ahead to Rome to Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna. Ignatius warned the Church against heresies that threatened peace and unity, he opposed Gnosticism and Docetism, and in his Epistle to Smyrna, insisted that Christ came in the flesh not just in spirit.
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians 8-10 (c. 110 A.D.)
“Do not be deceived by strange doctrines or antiquated myths, since they are worthless. For if we continue to live accordance with Judaism, we admit that we have not received grace. For the most godly prophets lived in accordance with Christ Jesus. This is why they were persecuted, being inspired as they were by His grace in order that those who are disobedient might be fully convinced that there is one God who revealed Himself through Jesus Christ His Son, who is His Word which came forth from silence, who in every respect pleased Him who sent Him. If, then, those who had lived in antiquated practices came to newness of hope, no longer keeping the Sabbath but living in accordance with the Lord's day, on which our life also arose through Him and His death (which some deny), the mystery through which we came to believe, and because of which we patiently endure, in order that we might be found to be disciples of Jesus Christ, our only teacher, how can we possibly live without Him, whom even the prophets, who were His disciples in the Spirit, were expecting as their teacher? Because of this He for whom they rightly waited raised them from the dead when He came. Therefore let us not be unaware of His goodness. For if He were to imitate the way we act, we are lost. Therefore, having become His disciples, let us learn to live in accordance with Christianity. For whoever is called by any other name than this one does not belong to God. Throw out, therefore, the bad leaven, which has become stale and sour, and reach for the new leaven, which is Jesus Christ. Be salted with Him, so that none of you become rotten, for by your odor you will be examined. It is utterly absurd to profess Jesus Christ and to practice Judaism. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity, in which “every tongue” believed and “was brought together” to God.” (10)The Epistle of Barnabas was probably not authored by the Barnabas of the New Testament. The writer repudiates the claims of Jewish Christians at the time who advocated adhering to observance of the Mosiac Law. He also argued that Christ provided salvation and man is no longer bound by the Law. This letter compares holy life to unrighteousness.
Epistle of Barnabas 2:4-6 (c. 130 A.D.)
“For He has made it clear to us through all the prophets that He needs neither sacrifices nor whole burnt offerings nor general offerings, saying on one occasion: 'What is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?' says the Lord. 'I am full of whole burnt offerings, and I do not want the fat of lambs and blood of bulls and goats, not even if you come to appear before Me. For who demanded these things from your hands? Do not continue to trample My court. If you bring fine flour, it is in vain; incense is detestable to Me; your new moons and sabbaths I cannot stand.' Therefore He has abolished these things, in order that the new law of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is free from the yoke of compulsion, might have its offering, one not made by man.”Epistle of Barnabas 15:8-9 (c. 130 A.D.)
“Finally, He says to them: 'I cannot bear your new moons and sabbaths.' You see what He means: it is not the present sabbaths that are acceptable to Me, but the one that I have made; on that Sabbath, after I have set everything at rest, I will create the beginning of an eighth day, which is the beginning of another world. This is why we spend the eighth day in celebration, the day on which Jesus both arose from the dead and, after appearing again, ascended into heaven.” (11)The Didache or The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles was an 11th century manuscript discovered by Philotheus Bryennois. It consists of various parts, starting with the Two Ways ethical instruction and including community rules for liturgical practices and leadership conduct, before ending with a short apocalyptic section. While some of the material might go back before the year 100 A.D., the current form of the document probably dates to the mid-second century at the earliest.
The Didache (or The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles) 14:1 (c. 70 A.D.)
“On the Lord's own day gather together and break bread and give thanks, having first confessed your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure.” (12)The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus (c. 260-339 A.D.) is probably one of the most important works on early Church history available, covering the events of its first three centuries. As one born during the early Church period, Eusebius was an able historian who had a close view of the events that helped shape the historical and theological developments of the early Church.
Eusebius Ecclesiastical History, Book 1, Chapter 5 (c. 315 A.D.)
“For as the name Christians is intended to indicate this very idea, that a man, by the knowledge and doctrine of Christ, is distinguished by modesty and justice, by patience and a virtuous fortitude, and by a profession of piety towards the one and only true and supreme God; all this no less studiously cultivated by them than by us. They did not, therefore, regard circumcision, nor observe the Sabbath, neither do we; neither do we abstain from certain foods, nor regard other injunctions, which Moses subsequently delivered to be observed in types and symbols, because such things as these do not belong to Christians.” (13)Eusebius Ecclesiastical History, Book 3, Chapter 27 (c. 315 A.D.)
“The Ebionites cherished low and mean opinions of Christ. For they considered Him a plain and common man, and justified only by His advances in virtue, and that He was born of the Virgin Mary, by natural generation. With them the observance of the law was altogether necessary, as if they could not be saved, only by faith in Christ and a corresponding life. These, indeed, thought on the one hand that all of the epistles of the apostles ought to be rejected, calling him an apostate from the law, but on the other, only using the gospel according to the Hebrews, they esteem the others as of little value. They also observe the Sabbath and other discipline of the Jews, just like them, but on the other hand, they also celebrate the Lords days very much like us, in commemoration of His resurrection.” (14)Eusebius Ecclesiastical History, Book 5, Chapter 23 (c. 315 A.D.)
“The churches throughout the rest of the world observe the practice that has prevailed from apostolic tradition until the present time, so that it would not be proper to terminate our fast on any other but the day of the resurrection of our Savior. Hence there were synods and convocations of the bishops on this question; and all unanimously drew up the ecclesiastical decree, which they communicated to all the churches in all places, that the mystery of our Lords resurrection should be celebrated on no other day than the Lords day.” (15)Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons (c. 178 A.D.)
“The duty of celebrating the mystery of the resurrection of our Lord may be done only on the day of the Lord.” (16)Justin Martyr (c. 100-165 A.D.) lived during the reign of Antonius Pius and suffered
martyrdom in 165 A.D. during the reign of Marcus Aurelius. He was an enthusiastic evangelist of the Gospel, and after traveling widely throughout the Roman Empire settled in Rome as a Christian teacher. While there, neighboring philosophers plotted against him because of his Christian profession, brought him up before the Roman authorities, who carried out his execution by beheading him.The First Apology of Justin, Chapter 67
“And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things … But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead.” (17)Some Christians would say that these epistles and statements are unreliable and reflect a general apostasy that was going on in the Church at the time. But this is the Church of which Christ said “the gates of Hades shall not overpower it.” Also, the men who wrote letters such as these to the early Christians were the type of people of whom were spoken in Hebrews 11.
Hebrews 11:35-40.
Many early Church leaders and followers of Christ such as Ignatius, Polycarp and Justin Martyr, to name a few, suffered severe persecution and eventual martyrdom at the hands of the Romans for spreading the Gospel of Christ. But to keep to the main point, Sabbath-keeping was not a requirement in those days for all Christians, nor was it generally observed. And this was going on long before Constantine the Great enacted his civil Sunday law.
The doctrine of imputed righteousness, where Jesus's name in recorded is some heavenly ledger in place of yours, only existed since the 16th century with the beginning of the reformation. Prior to that only a few groups of gnostics believed in this form of faith.
This New gospel is accursed galatians 1:8. It never existed prior to the reformation.
You will probably never hear any eternal security teacher say outrightly their doctrine is a license for immorality. In fact, they will most often flatly deny this charge sometimes to the point of yelling slander. However, there are still various ways these people teach this very thing they hate to be identified with. Certainly one is through their version of the sin unto death. The apostle John wrote of this sin:
If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death. (1 John 5:16,17).
Clearly, there is sin that leads to death. Whatever type of death this is, is not clearly identified here. However, the eternal security teachers like to draw our attention to 1 Cor. 11:27-30, which reads:
Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
And to that they sometimes add the deaths of Ananias and Sapphira as specific examples of the sin unto death:
Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.” When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?” “Yes,” she said, “that is the price.” Peter said to her, “How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.” At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband (Acts 5:3-10).
To Them Death Is Always Physical
To the eternal security teachers death will always be physical death, such as mentioned in 1 Cor. 11:30 and Acts 5:3-10. While it is undeniable truth that God gets so angry over sin that he kills people because of it, there is another truth related to this that the eternal security teachers will always deny—that sin can bring a Christian to his spiritual death, just like Adam and Eve died spiritually because of their sin, as God warned would happen (Gen. 2:17). (God didn't kill them physically but they did die spiritually like he warned.)
From the eternal security perspective, when a person who was formerly saved would die physically, he will always go to heaven. How such people are living at that point is inconsequential, even if God would kill them physically because of their unrepentant heinous sins. This clearly spells out license for immorality.Dave Hunt's License For Immorality
Please note what Dave Hunt teaches about this as he comments on the 1 Cor. 11 passage:
For this cause, some of you are weak and sickly and some of you sleep; some of you died because God has brought judgment upon you for the way you have conducted yourselves and so forth. So I think what he's saying is, there are some sins that are so heinous and not only heinous but perhaps I think it depends upon the position that a person has that brings reproach upon Christ and God takes them home for that.(1)
Judgment or Blessing?
To be consistent with his license for immorality or his security-in-sin gospel, commonly called eternal security (once saved always saved, the perseverance of the saints or the preservation of the saints), Dave Hunt must always teach the way just cited. Question for Dave Hunt (and all other eternal security people): What kind of punishment is this that God would kill a person because of their unrepentant heinous sins and take them out of this cursed environment filled with sin, injustice and pain to a beautiful paradise where joy, peace, truth, righteousness, etc. will be? For Paul, to live was Christ and die was gain and better by far (Phil. 1:21-23), but these “blind guides” want us to think we can live for self, sin and the devil and die in those sins and that death is gain when God kills you in his anger. Hence, death isn't really a punishment at all, but a blessing and gain for their hatred of God.
To look at this in another way, one can therefore backslide into heinous sin and wickedness, absolutely refuse to repent even though disciplined and be blessed by the thrice holy God for their unyielding stubborn rebellion when he strikes them dead in his holy wrath and anger. Dear reader, if you ponder the horrible conclusion produced by the eternal security teachers, you will have to agree that this is nothing more than a deadly, religious myth yielding an opportunity and license to live in wild rebellion to God—a license for immorality.Hunt And The Calvinists—Close Associates
The so-called Berean Dave Hunt is not alone with these Scriptural fabrications and distortions, however. Hunt has the staunch Calvinists as his close companions and co-laborers with this teaching, even though he claims to oppose Calvinism! Please note what Calvinist, D. James Kennedy has likewise written about this:
I think back many years ago of a man in this church who was engaged in adultery—a man who had been a minster [sic] and had left the ministry, but a man who seemed to be a godly man—a man who seemed to be a Christian. Only God knows the heart. He became involved with a married woman. He was going to have her divorce her husband and marry him. I admonished him and urged him to repent. He was brought before the discipline committee and they admonished him to repent. He was suspended from the sacraments, but he did not repent. Finally, the Session determined that since he remained impenitent, they would have to excommunicate this man from the church. Just before that happened, God pulled his string and suddenly that young man died.
These are just some of the unlimited, infinite ways God can chasten those who are truly His own, who do not repent of their sins. My friends, we need to take the warnings seriously because they are very real.(2)So Hunt and the Calvinists are identical twins regarding the sin unto death, because they both teach eternal security, that is, once a person becomes saved he will always remain saved regardless how far into wickedness he may go and remain.
Calvinism's Christian Adulterers
Kennedy's message comes through loud and clear regarding his so-called doctrines of grace. He is indirectly saying by his story that Christian adulterers do exist. In contrast to this deadly doctrinal myth, the Bible speaks of only one type of adulterer and he is always shown as one who will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6:9,10), but instead will be thrown into the lake of fire (Rev. 21:8), unless he repents. But the eternal security teachers don't think this person has to repent for salvation. He will still get to heav
en and escape hell in his unrepentant adultery or heinous sins, because he was once saved! How God must hate this deadly lie which has multitudes deceived.
At times Kennedy's Calvinism will have him declare the elect will endure in holiness to the end, but then he turns right around and blatantly teaches his sin unto death yarn. Doesn't Kennedy know that dying in adultery is not enduring to the end in holiness?God Lovers and God Haters
Dear eternal security reader, you have been deceived by popular teachers of our hour and from yesteryear that have changed grace into a license for immorality, as just proven. This should be apparent now after considering what both types of eternal security teachers have said about the sin unto death. Their deadly version of grace allows or permits all forms of unrepentant wickedness for those that enter heaven. In contrast, the Bible says the following:
However, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him” (1 Cor 2:9).
Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? (James 2:5)In other words, those who actually enter God's kingdom love God. (This is the real issue, not if God loves them.) To love God we must obey him (John 14:15,21,23,24; 1 John 5:3). Moreover, not to love Jesus is to be unsaved:
If anyone does not love the Lord, he is to be accursed. Maranatha. (1 Cor 16:22)
Clearly, one is not loving God if he is in such sins as those just taught by the well-known Hunt and Kennedy. Jesus taught:
He who does not love me will not obey my teaching …. (John 14:24)
God promises to kill those who hate him—his adversaries:
See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand. I lift my hand to heaven and declare: As surely as I live forever, when I sharpen my flashing sword and my hand grasps it in judgment, I will take vengeance on my adversaries and repay those who hate me. (Deut 32:39-41)
Furthermore, Hebrews 10:26,27 say:
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
Did you notice that one becomes an enemy of God by turning to willful sin (or deliberate sin), the very thing Hunt and Kennedy teachings allow for without jeopardizing one's salvation. Also, Heb. 10:27 says the fury of fire (or raging fire) will consume God's adversaries. How much more clear can it get? The ones killed by God because of their deliberate sinning go to the fires of Hell.
Also, the true Christian is clearly called by the term saint, which means holy one. Since sin can make a holy person unholy again (1 Tim. 5:22; Rev. 3:4; etc.), and therefore unfit for entrance into the kingdom of God (Mt. 5:8; Heb. 12:14; Rom. 6:22; etc.), then these eternal security teachers are dangerously downplaying the effects of sin in the life of a Christian. Souls are at risk because of their fables.The Real Truth
The real truth is a true Christian can sin in such a way as to bring him back into spiritual death and endanger him to the lake of fire again (James 1:14-16; 5:19,20; Luke 15:24,32; Gal. 5:19-21; 6:8,9; Rom. 6:16; 8:13; Rev. 2:10,11; etc.). This is the real sin unto death, as mentioned by the Apostle John. Moreover, if God in his holy wrath strikes someone dead because of his unrepentant adultery he will go to hell, not heaven, with other God haters as already shown in Hebrews. This was basic knowledge in first century Christianity, though popularly denied in our dark day by those who maintain their security-in-sin gospel and license for immorality.
Repent For Your Salvation's Sake
Dear reader, if you think you can live in heinous sin, as Hunt and Kennedy wants all to believe, and still be on the road to heaven, you have been dangerously deceived. You must repent (turn from sin) or you will find yourself being thrown into the lake of fire in the end. You are not just jeopardizing your physical life, rewards, etc. as they say, but it is your very soul that is endangered. Don't be deceived.
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil …. (1 John 3:7,8)Hi Nick
It was made FOR Man NOT BY Man
Quote It was made for man.
It was a sign.17It is a SIGN between me and the children of Israel FOR EVER: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed
Quote 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets Hang means attach or support and All means the whole
Quote So on which of these two commandments does the sabbath law hang? Read Matthew 22:40 again. Its answered you right there. It didnt say just the sabbath but ALL nor did it say which of the 2 commandments it said “on these two commandments”
Hugs
PhoenixHi MS
I think I would prefer to take an article from Wikipaedia than an article from a bunch of “Ex SDA observers”
Oh sorry I forgot to add… why copy and paste the article when you can just give us the link. Instead of doing both.
Hugs
PhoenixQuote (Phoenix @ Feb. 26 2007,22:56) Hi Nick Love God
Hugs
Phoenix
Hi P,
The sabbath was given as a sign to man as a day of rest.Ex 31
” 13Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.”
How does it command the love of God except as obedience is love?
Hi Nick
Exodus 20:8 (KJV)
….Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holyHoly – means having a spiritually pure quality: a holy love
– entitled to worship
– dedicated or devoted to the service of GodDevotion – profound dedication; consecration or earnest attachment to a cause
All those words above, Nick, means LOVE
Hugs
PhoenixHi
Im getting bored of this debate now. So I dont think Im gonna carry on coz I want to get back to study Revelations. This is taking up all my time, but I want to let you know Nick that I love you for this because you have pushed me hard to learn. And I am very grateful (sp?) (((((( Brother ))))))))) also thank you Ken for helping and MOST of all, ALL credit goes to Our Father in Heaven (My only God) and Our Lord Jesus Christ (My King!) Yeaaahhh!!
AmenGod Bless You All
Hugs
PhoenixQuote (Morning Star @ Feb. 26 2007,20:53) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 26 2007,14:14) Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 26 2007,08:53) Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 26 2007,07:53) Hi Ok Im not going to mock any further. Well… I can say that I would be happy to let the Sabbath go since I dont want to stop my son from going to scout camps because that would be like taking his psp away from him.
But here is a question… why are christians still worshipping on a Sunday since it was the Catholics that changed it? You cant tell me that Christians follow the Catholics.
And if it is to worship Jesus' resurrection… then please share with me the scripture that says we have to worship his resurrection.
Hugs
Phoenix
catholics didnt change it, the early Christians worshipped on sunday. It had NOTHING to do with the sabbath.They didn't replace it.
It was a completely seperate assembly.
The Sabbath was everyday.
Assembling for fellowship, love feasts and the Lord's Supper took place on the Lord's day, sunday, in rememberance of his ressurrection.
It is a myth the catholics instituted this, the earliest of christians practiced this.
Including, Polycarp the bishop of smyrna, who receives praise from Jesus in revelations.
Including Clement of Rome mention by Paul in Phillipians chapter 4, whom he qualified by saying his name was written in the book of life.
Constantine outlawed the sabbath keepers, there were still those who kept it, just as Paul discussed some still did in Galatians.
To repeat the early Christians did not believe sunday replaced the Sabbath. It was a completely “new” assembly. They considered the “rest of the Sabbath” to be an everday event in Christ.
Sunday sabbath is based on Catholicism. None of the apostles kept the first day instead of the Sabbath day. Just give me scripture that says they did.The whole Sunday thing is based on Jesus being resurrected on Sunday. Where in scripture does it say that?
How nicely that fits with Easter Sunday. Which is a lie! What do bunny rabbits laying eggs have to do with the resurrection of Christ.
How do you get three days and three nights from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning anyway? How nicely this fits their doctrine which is unscriptural.
Mat 12:40 for as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
“Prior to your salvation and baptism yes”.
“After that, if you don't abide in the vine you are cut off. If you commit sins that lead to death then you are cut off and cannot longer be brought back to repentance because you crucify the Son of God all over again and trample under foot the blood of the covenant”.
Wow! MS you don't sin you never need forgivness? Do you walk on water too? Yes if you sin and don't repent then you will die in your sin. But their is ONE sin unto death.
Mar 3:29 but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an “eternal sin”:
All others IF you repent will be forgiven. Of course you can't murder someone then say you repent (won't do that again) and go out the next day and murder someone again, then you are guilty not sincerely repenting.
1Jo 1:7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.You are keeping the doctrine of the Harlet and her Daughters. Who are the Harlot's daughters?
And you are in danger of having a millstone tied around your neck.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, it is profitable for him that a great millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depth of the sea.
It doesn't matter how many scriptures say to keep the Ten Commandments does it.
There is just something about that forth Commandment isn't there! I explained why no one wants to keep the Sabbath. For one thing the forth Commandment starts with REMEMBER and so what does Satan do? He tells you don't keep “that old law” but you should keep the other nine. If it wouldn't be so sad it would be funny!
Again, Today in the last days the remnant of the seed (true church) will be Keeping The Commandments Of GOD AND have the testimony of Jesus.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:
Please explain this scripture and while you are at it explain all the other scriptures that say Keep the Commandments. I'm open to the truth Believe me, BUT it must be scriptural.
IHL,
Ken
Some Sabbatarian Christians maintain that the Catholic Church changed the day of worship from Sabbath to Sunday, starting with a Sunday law enacted by Constantine the Great (306-337 A.D.) in 321 A.D. The assumption here is that Constantine put into place a religious law. But Constantine did not enact a Christian law, but a civil one. He could not have been a Catholic, since the Catholic Church as was known during the Reformation period was not even formally organized until several centuries later. It is even doubtful that he was even a Christian, though some make that claim. Christians by this time were already meeting together for worship on the first day of the week. Many, if not most, had been doing so for at least a couple centuries before Constantine arrived on the scene. They did not call this day Sunday, but rather referred to it as the Lord's Day, in honor of Christ's resurrection from the dead.The claim by the Catholic Church in some of their catechisms that they changed the sanctity of the Sabbath day to Sunday is not evidence that they actually did so. The New Testament does not anywhere make Sunday holy, neither does it make the Sabbath holy. The emphasis had been taken away from the day and placed on Christ, making the observance of particular days no longer necessary. The Catholic Church claims that Peter was the first Pope. It also claims that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is a co-regent with Christ in Heaven now. It is doubtful that most Sabbatarian Christians, if any at all, believe this. Why accept what the Catholic Church says regarding transferring the sanctity of the Sabbath day to Sunday, while not believing Peter to be the first Pope, or that Mary is a co-regent with Christ in Heaven? Scripture does not really portray Peter to be the first Pope, neither does it say that Mary currently is a ruler with Jesus in Heaven. She was no more a sain
t than any other Christian. And history does not support statements by the Catholic Church that they changed the day of worship from Sabbath to Sunday. This is an inconsistent argument that fails to make any sense.The early Christian Church fathers of the 1st and 2nd centuries A.D. did not consider the Sabbath day to be a day all Christians were obligated to observe. They gave a different testimony. While the following epistles and statements are not in Scripture and should therefore not be considered canonical, they help to provide useful historical information regarding prevalent beliefs of the early Church in its first centuries.
Ignatius was bishop of Antioch in Syria (c. 1st-2nd century A.D.) and martyred in Rome by beasts (c. 105-116 A.D.). On his way to Rome, he visited and wrote to various churches, warning and exhorting them. He also wrote ahead to Rome to Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna. Ignatius warned the Church against heresies that threatened peace and unity, he opposed Gnosticism and Docetism, and in his Epistle to Smyrna, insisted that Christ came in the flesh not just in spirit.
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians 8-10 (c. 110 A.D.)
“Do not be deceived by strange doctrines or antiquated myths, since they are worthless. For if we continue to live accordance with Judaism, we admit that we have not received grace. For the most godly prophets lived in accordance with Christ Jesus. This is why they were persecuted, being inspired as they were by His grace in order that those who are disobedient might be fully convinced that there is one God who revealed Himself through Jesus Christ His Son, who is His Word which came forth from silence, who in every respect pleased Him who sent Him. If, then, those who had lived in antiquated practices came to newness of hope, no longer keeping the Sabbath but living in accordance with the Lord's day, on which our life also arose through Him and His death (which some deny), the mystery through which we came to believe, and because of which we patiently endure, in order that we might be found to be disciples of Jesus Christ, our only teacher, how can we possibly live without Him, whom even the prophets, who were His disciples in the Spirit, were expecting as their teacher? Because of this He for whom they rightly waited raised them from the dead when He came. Therefore let us not be unaware of His goodness. For if He were to imitate the way we act, we are lost. Therefore, having become His disciples, let us learn to live in accordance with Christianity. For whoever is called by any other name than this one does not belong to God. Throw out, therefore, the bad leaven, which has become stale and sour, and reach for the new leaven, which is Jesus Christ. Be salted with Him, so that none of you become rotten, for by your odor you will be examined. It is utterly absurd to profess Jesus Christ and to practice Judaism. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity, in which “every tongue” believed and “was brought together” to God.” (10)The Epistle of Barnabas was probably not authored by the Barnabas of the New Testament. The writer repudiates the claims of Jewish Christians at the time who advocated adhering to observance of the Mosiac Law. He also argued that Christ provided salvation and man is no longer bound by the Law. This letter compares holy life to unrighteousness.
Epistle of Barnabas 2:4-6 (c. 130 A.D.)
“For He has made it clear to us through all the prophets that He needs neither sacrifices nor whole burnt offerings nor general offerings, saying on one occasion: 'What is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?' says the Lord. 'I am full of whole burnt offerings, and I do not want the fat of lambs and blood of bulls and goats, not even if you come to appear before Me. For who demanded these things from your hands? Do not continue to trample My court. If you bring fine flour, it is in vain; incense is detestable to Me; your new moons and sabbaths I cannot stand.' Therefore He has abolished these things, in order that the new law of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is free from the yoke of compulsion, might have its offering, one not made by man.”Epistle of Barnabas 15:8-9 (c. 130 A.D.)
“Finally, He says to them: 'I cannot bear your new moons and sabbaths.' You see what He means: it is not the present sabbaths that are acceptable to Me, but the one that I have made; on that Sabbath, after I have set everything at rest, I will create the beginning of an eighth day, which is the beginning of another world. This is why we spend the eighth day in celebration, the day on which Jesus both arose from the dead and, after appearing again, ascended into heaven.” (11)The Didache or The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles was an 11th century manuscript discovered by Philotheus Bryennois. It consists of various parts, starting with the Two Ways ethical instruction and including community rules for liturgical practices and leadership conduct, before ending with a short apocalyptic section. While some of the material might go back before the year 100 A.D., the current form of the document probably dates to the mid-second century at the earliest.
The Didache (or The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles) 14:1 (c. 70 A.D.)
“On the Lord's own day gather together and break bread and give thanks, having first confessed your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure.” (12)The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus (c. 260-339 A.D.) is probably one of the most important works on early Church history available, covering the events of its first three centuries. As one born during the early Church period, Eusebius was an able historian who had a close view of the events that helped shape the historical and theological developments of the early Church.
Eusebius Ecclesiastical History, Book 1, Chapter 5 (c. 315 A.D.)
“For as the name Christians is intended to indicate this very idea, that a man, by the knowledge and doctrine of Christ, is distinguished by modesty and justice, by patience and a virtuous fortitude, and by a profession of piety towards the one and only true and supreme God; all this no less studiously cultivated by them than by us. They did not, therefore, regard circumcision, nor observe the Sabbath, neither do we; neither do we abstain from certain foods, nor regard other injunctions, which Moses subsequently delivered to be observed in types and symbols, because such things as these do not belong to Christians.” (13)Eusebius Ecclesiastical History, Book 3, Chapter 27 (c. 315 A.D.)
“The Ebionites cherished low and mean opinions of Christ. For they considered Him a plain and common man, and justified only by His advances in virtue, and that He was born of the Virgin Mary, by natural generation. With them the observance of the law was altogether necessary, as if they could not be saved, only by faith in Christ and a corresponding life. These, indeed, thought on the one hand that all of the epistles of the apostles ought to be rejected, calling him an apostate from the law, but on the other, only using the gospel according to the Hebrews, they esteem the others as of little value. They also observe the Sabbath and other discipline of the Jews, just like them, but on the other hand, they also celebrate the Lords days very much like us, in commemoration of His resurrection.” (14)Eusebius Ecclesiastical History, Book 5, Chapter 23 (c. 315 A.D.)
“The churches throughout the rest of the world observe the practice that has prevailed from apostolic tradition until the present time, so that it would not be proper to terminate our fast on any other but the day of the resurrection of our Savior. Hence there were synods and convocations of the bishops on this question; and all unanimously drew up the ecclesiastical decree, which they communicated to all the churches in all places, that the mystery of our Lords resurrection should be celebrated on no other day than the Lords day.” (15)Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons (c. 178 A.D.)
“The du
ty of celebrating the mystery of the resurrection of our Lord may be done only on the day of the Lord.” (16)Justin Martyr (c. 100-165 A.D.) lived during the reign of Antonius Pius and suffered martyrdom in 165 A.D. during the reign of Marcus Aurelius. He was an enthusiastic evangelist of the Gospel, and after traveling widely throughout the Roman Empire settled in Rome as a Christian teacher. While there, neighboring philosophers plotted against him because of his Christian profession, brought him up before the Roman authorities, who carried out his execution by beheading him.
The First Apology of Justin, Chapter 67
“And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things … But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead.” (17)Some Christians would say that these epistles and statements are unreliable and reflect a general apostasy that was going on in the Church at the time. But this is the Church of which Christ said “the gates of Hades shall not overpower it.” Also, the men who wrote letters such as these to the early Christians were the type of people of whom were spoken in Hebrews 11.
Hebrews 11:35-40.
Many early Church leaders and followers of Christ such as Ignatius, Polycarp and Justin Martyr, to name a few, suffered severe persecution and eventual martyrdom at the hands of the Romans for spreading the Gospel of Christ. But to keep to the main point, Sabbath-keeping was not a requirement in those days for all Christians, nor was it generally observed. And this was going on long before Constantine the Great enacted his civil Sunday law.
Gee you sound like you were there
Where in the bible are these people mentioned?
Act 20:29 I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock;
I take it you didn't like the dicitionary, it is an un-bias definition.
“Did you notice that one becomes an enemy of God by turning to willful sin (or deliberate sin)”,
There's that word I was looking for ~willful~ that means one who didn't repent right?
I believe this means the same thing.
…if God in his holy wrath strikes someone dead because of his “unrepentant” adultery…
Even if you repent then turn right around and sin again and keep repeating the act guess what you didn't repent. And are guilty of trangression of the law which is sin. 1John 3:4
Blaspheme against the Holy Spirit is the eternal sin.
Mat 12:31 Therefore I say unto you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
Mar 3:29 but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin:
What is Paul saying here?
1Co 9:21 To them that were without the law, as if I were without the law, (whereas I was not without the law of God, but was in the law of Christ,) that I might gain them that were without the law.Hi kenrch,
1Cor 9
” 19For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.”
God chose a well versed Pharisee to reach out to Jews as Paul showed he understood their dilemma in the letters to the Romans and Galatians. But he was free from the demands of the OT Law in Christ, under the Law of the spirit of freedom, and like the gentiles who never knew that OTLaw so he was also able to minister to them.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 27 2007,03:05) Hi kenrch,
1Cor 9
” 19For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.”
God chose a well versed Pharisee to reach out to Jews as Paul showed he understood their dilemma in the letters to the Romans and Galatians. But he was free from the demands of the OT Law in Christ, under the Law of the spirit of freedom, and like the gentiles who never knew that OTLaw so he was also able to minister to them.
1Co 9:20 And I became to the Jews a Jew, that I might gain the Jews: To them that are under the law, as if I were under the law, (whereas myself was not under the law,) that I might gain them that were under the law.Here Paul says he was not under the Jewish law the sacrifical law, he says: whereas myself was not under the law that I might gain them that were under the law.
Paul was not under the Jewish law but he “was not without the law of God”.
1Co 9:21 To them that were without the law, as if I were without the law, (whereas I was not without the law of God, but was in the law of Christ,) that I might gain them that were without the law.
Here Paul says he was NOT without the law of God. What does that mean? Verse 20 He describes the “Jewish law” then in verse 21 He says he is not without the law of God!
Sorry but it seems simple to me.
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