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Hi m42,
You ask
“Does sin automatically result in punishment?”
No.
Only if sin actions are imputed and not forgiven.
Ps 32
1Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.2Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Hi Nick
Quote You ask
“Does sin automatically result in punishment?”
No.The answer is Yes. However there is a BUT…
“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23).Hugs
PhoenixHi P,
Does the gift have a but too?
No.
So there is punishment but now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus even if they sin.[Rom 8]Lk 12
“45But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;46The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
Hi Nick
M42 asked…
Quote “Does sin automatically result in punishment?” The answer is Yes.
He didnt ask about Condemnation.
Hugs
PhoenixFaith First
Quote 1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries
music4two
Quote And what is the biblical definition of the word “sin”?
Does sin automatically result in punishment?Nick Hassen
Quote Hi m42,
There are two.
Sin that lives in us
conceived of obedience to our lusts and
Sin actions.music4two
Quote Not the question I asked. Nick Hassen
Quote Hi M42,
First we must define SIN according to scripture as I have done.
All have sinned but Paul told us sin lived in him.
God only judges SIN committed.music4two
Quote still not the question I asked. I ask to define the word “sin”. Not how you do it. Not the results of it. Not how you inherit it.
What does the word mean.Nick Hassen
Quote Hi m42,
It has two meaningsKenrch
Quote Still not the question he asked LOL!
Nick. Instead of beating around the bush why not answer music4two from the Bible?
1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Thanks Phoenix
Quote “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23). Judgement, Hellfire and Eternal Death is the end result when sin is not repented of.
Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 09 2007,03:26) Hi FF,
That was not the question so calm down
Yeah! Faith First calm down! Answer from the bible? What do you think this is a “bible” forum?Hi Nick
Quote Hi,
I think the Lord of the sabbath who told us it was made for man is the one to make rules about it and he does not seem to have done so.
The sabbath rest of 1000 years is more important it seems.Here is what the Lord of the Sabbath says…
Matt 12:6
6I tell you that one[a] greater than the temple is here.7If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,'you would not have condemned the innocent.
12How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath
I believe the Lord of the Sabbath has just made his Law there.
The 1000 year Sabbath?
Like you said in some other posts… the Sabbath day is a sign between Man[kind] (Not Jew) and God. Why is it a sign?
Those that rest on the usual Sabbath day and keep it holy shall enter his rest (the 1000 year Sabbath?)
God isnt resting right now because the 7th day for him has not come yet. But it is very near.
Hugs
PhoenixHi P,
Seems like you are making rules for other about the sabbath using scripture.
We do not let others make rules about the sabbath.
How did “I” make it a rule? using scripture it where we prove it is said in His Word. Or did you want me to make something up instead?
Hi P,
Col 2
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ
Shadows are not the reality they image.
The reality is love.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 10 2007,19:01) Hi P,
Col 2
16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ
Shadows are not the reality they image.
The reality is love.
All one has to do is put the scriptures together. Is Col 2 saying that the Ten Commandments are done away. Then Jesus is a liar. Either Nick is a liar or Jesus is a Liar.
Jesus nailed the law concerning Himself (Luke 24:44) to the cross verse 14.Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Why ARE Paul's writings hard to understand?
2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, **take care that you are not carried away with the error of “lawless people” and lose your own stability. **Hi Nick
I wonder who the strangers are…
Is 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
The Sabbath has been around since the days of Genesis
Ge 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Then on to the days after Jesus died on the cross…
1 John 2:3, 4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Sound familiar Nick?
All the way through to Revelations… the future.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
As Jesus said…
Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
He's talking about man as in Mankind… not Jews
Hugs
PhoenixWhile on the matter of law and the law, I think we could mention the idea of principles. A principle is a basic truth. Principles are what laws were based on. General principles in the Bible last forever. Laws don't.
For example, to a child one might give the law, “You must not touch the stove.” But to an adult the statement, “The stove is hot” would suffice. Notice that the latter is a more fundamental statement. Because it governs what one may do—perhaps cook, bake, or turn the stove off—it becomes in a sense a principle.
BAD associations spoil useful habits. You reap what you sow. (1 Corinthians 15:33; Galatians 6:7)
These are basic principles that will never change.The laws of the Bible are based on principles. For example, “you should not murder” or you should not steal, etc is based on the basic principle of loving your neighbor. Loving your neighbor isn't very specific. It's more of a principle that youshould follow. If you follow this principle, then the more specific laws aren't really neceissary.
Jehovah put the laws in place to show that we are sinful and need something more, Christ. We needed something to redeem us. The law made this clear.Among imperfect men, Abel could be called the very first man of godly principle. He likely gave much thought to the promise about the “seed” and perceived that redemption from sin would involve a blood sacrifice. (Genesis 3:15) He thus offered God “some firstlings of his flock.” The phrase “even their fatty pieces” shows that Abel gave Jehovah his very best. Yet, it would be over two thousand years after Abel’s death that God would first spell out detailed requirements regarding sacrifices. In contrast with the God-fearing man of principle Abel, his brother Cain went through the motions of sacrificing to God. But his attitude left much to be desired, something about his offering indicating a heart lacking in principle.—Genesis 4:3-5.
Unlike the clergy of his day, Jesus taught the people to think in terms of principles. His Sermon on the Mount is an example. Its whole tenor is an appeal to principle. (Matthew, chapters 5-7) Jesus taught this way because, like Abel and Noah before him, he truly knew God. Even as a lad, he revered the fundamental truth: “Not by bread alone . . . but by every expression of Jehovah’s mouth does man live.” (Deuteronomy 8:3; Luke 2:41-47) Yes, the key to being a person of godly principle is really to know Jehovah, his likes, his dislikes, and his purposes. When these fundamentals about God govern our lives, they become, in effect, living principles.—Jeremiah 22:16; Hebrews 4:12.
It is possible to obey a law only reluctantly, perhaps out of fear of a penalty for disobedience. Compliance with a principle, however, precludes such an attitude, for it is in the very nature of principles that to be governed by them is to respond from the heart. Consider Joseph who, like Abel and Noah, lived before the establishment of the Mosaic Law covenant. When Potiphar’s wife tried to seduce him, Joseph responded: “How could I commit this great badness and actually sin against God?” Yes, Joseph knew the principle that husband and wife are “one flesh.”—Genesis 2:24; 39:9.
God gave Israel the Ten Commandments, the first of which forbade the worship of any god other than Jehovah. That Jehovah created all things is a fundamental truth behind this law. (Exodus 20:3-5) But did the nation live by this principle? Jehovah himself answers: “‘You are our father’ [said the Israelites] to a block of wood and [they cried] ‘Mother’ to a stone. But on me [Jehovah] they have turned their backs and averted their faces from me.” (Jeremiah 2:27, The New English Bible)
Christians too have laws from God. For example, they are to avoid idolatry, sexual immorality, and the misuse of blood. (Acts 15:28, 29) When you think about it, we can see underlying principles, such as: God merits our exclusive devotion; we are to be faithful to our mate; and Jehovah is our Life-Giver. (Genesis 2:24; Exodus 20:5; Psalm 36:9) If we both perceive and deeply appreciate the principles behind these directives, we see that they are for our own good. (Isaiah 48:17) To us, God’s “commandments are not burdensome.”—1 John 5:3.
Discerning and applying Bible principles is not as easy as following a set of laws. As imperfect humans we may shy away from the effort required to reason on principles. We may prefer the convenience of a rule when we are faced with a decision or a dilemma.
You have probably seen people who are inclined to obey laws grudgingly, out of fear of a penalty. Respect for principles precludes such an attitude. The very nature of principles moves those governed by them to respond from the heart. In fact, most principles do not involve an immediate punishment for those not conforming to them. This gives us the opportunity to reveal why we obey Jehovah, what our heart motivation is.Quote (david @ Mar. 10 2007,21:53) While on the matter of law and the law, I think we could mention the idea of principles. A principle is a basic truth. Principles are what laws were based on. General principles in the Bible last forever. Laws don't. For example, to a child one might give the law, “You must not touch the stove.” But to an adult the statement, “The stove is hot” would suffice. Notice that the latter is a more fundamental statement. Because it governs what one may do—perhaps cook, bake, or turn the stove off—it becomes in a sense a principle.
BAD associations spoil useful habits. You reap what you sow. (1 Corinthians 15:33; Galatians 6:7)
These are basic principles that will never change.The laws of the Bible are based on principles. For example, “you should not murder” or you should not steal, etc is based on the basic principle of loving your neighbor. Loving your neighbor isn't very specific. It's more of a principle that youshould follow. If you follow this principle, then the more specific laws aren't really neceissary.
Jehovah put the laws in place to show that we are sinful and need something more, Christ. We needed something to redeem us. The law made this clear.Among imperfect men, Abel could be called the very first man of godly principle. He likely gave much thought to the promise about the “seed” and perceived that redemption from sin would involve a blood sacrifice. (Genesis 3:15) He thus offered God “some firstlings of his flock.” The phrase “even their fatty pieces” shows that Abel gave Jehovah his very best. Yet, it would be over two thousand years after Abel’s death that God would first spell out detailed requirements regarding sacrifices. In contrast with the God-fearing man of principle Abel, his brother Cain went through the motions of sacrificing to God. But his attitude left much to be desired, something about his offering indicating a heart lacking in principle.—Genesis 4:3-5.
Unlike the clergy of his day, Jesus taught the people to think in terms of principles. His Sermon on the Mount is an example. Its whole tenor is an appeal to principle. (Matthew, chapters 5-7) Jesus taught this way because, like Abel and Noah before him, he truly knew God. Even as a lad, he revered the fundamental truth: “Not by bread alone . . . but by every expression of Jehovah’s mouth does man live.” (Deuteronomy 8:3; Luke 2:41-47) Yes, the key to being a person of godly principle is really to know Jehovah, his likes, his dislikes, and his purposes. When these fundamentals about God govern our lives, they become, in effect, living principles.—Jeremiah 22:16; Hebrews 4:12.
It is possible to obey a law only reluctantly, perhaps out of fear of a penalty for disobedience. Compliance with a principle, however, precludes such an attitude, for it is in the very nature of principles that to be governed by them is to respond from the heart. Consider Joseph who, like Abel and Noah, lived before the establishment of the Mosaic Law covenant. When Potiphar’s wife tried to seduce him, Joseph responded: “How could I commit this great badness and actually sin against God?” Yes, Joseph knew the principle that husband and wife are “one flesh.”—Genesis 2:24; 39:9.
God gave Israel the Ten Commandments, the first of which forbade the worship of any god other than Jehovah. That Jehovah created all things is a fundamental truth behind this law. (Exodus 20:3-5) But did the nation live by this principle? Jehovah himself answers: “‘You are our father’ [said the Israelites] to a block of wood and [they cried] ‘Mother’ to a stone. But on me [Jehovah] they have turned their backs and averted their faces from me.” (Jeremiah 2:27, The New English Bible)
Christians too have laws from God. For example, they are to avoid idolatry, sexual immorality, and the misuse of blood. (Acts 15:28, 29) When you think about it, we can see underlying principles, such as: God merits our exclusive devotion; we are to be faithful to our mate; and Jehovah is our Life-Giver. (Genesis 2:24; Exodus 20:5; Psalm 36:9) If we both perceive and deeply appreciate the principles behind these directives, we see that they are for our own good. (Isaiah 48:17) To us, God’s “commandments are not burdensome.”—1 John 5:3.
Discerning and applying Bible principles is not as easy as following a set of laws. As imperfect humans we may shy away from the effort required to reason on principles. We may prefer the convenience of a rule when we are faced with a decision or a dilemma.
You have probably seen people who are inclined to obey laws grudgingly, out of fear of a penalty. Respect for principles precludes such an attitude. The very nature of principles moves those governed by them to respond from the heart. In fact, most principles do not involve an immediate punishment for those not conforming to them. This gives us the opportunity to reveal why we obey Jehovah, what our heart motivation is.
Hey Dave the principal of the law is what makes it spiritual.Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.The principal being hate and love in the above scripture. All principals trace back to the tree trunk the Ten Commandments.
Now the same person who made the law spiritual said (in the same chapter btw):
Mat 5:17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.1. 1Corinthians 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.
See also 1 Cor 6:9, Acts 17:16&23,
Romans 2:22&23, 1John 5:212. Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought
not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone,
graven by art and man's device. See also 1 Cor 12:23. James 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by
heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath…
lest ye fall into condemnation.4. Luke 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and
rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Hebrews 4 4&9 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh [day] on this
wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
There remaineth therefore a (keeping of a sabbath-see margin) rest
to the people of God.
Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three
sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Acts 13:42&44 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the
Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the
next sabbath. And the next sabbath day came almost the
whole city together to hear the word of God.
Isaiha 66:22-23 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will
make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your
seed and your name remain.
And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to
another, and fr
om one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to
worship before me, saith the LORD.
See also Acts 16:135. Ephesians 6:1-2 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Honour
thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
See also Romans 1:306. James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill.
Romans 13:9 Thou shalt not kill,.
See also Romans1:297. 1 Thessalonians 4:3 For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification, that ye
should abstain from fornication:
James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill.
See also 1Cor 6:9, Romans 2:22, Romans 1:29, Romans 13:98. Romans 13:9 Thou shalt not steal.
1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no [man] go beyond and defraud his brother in [any] matter:
See also 1Cor 6:109. Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another
Romans 13:9 Thou shalt not bear false witness10. Romans 13:9 Thou shalt not covet;
See also 1 Cor 6:10, Romans 1:29Of course love IS fulfillment of the Ten Commandments. If you love someone you do what pleases them and NOT what they dislike.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing; but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Jo 2:3 And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1Jo 3:22 and whatsoever we ask we receive of him, because we keep his commandments and do the things that are pleasing in his sight.
**1Jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments abideth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he gave us.
**1Jo 5:2 Hereby we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and do his commandments.
**How do we know we love the children of God? By love and DOING HIS Commandments.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
**What is the love of GOD? Certainly if you have the love of God you will keep His commandments. Doesn't that say it ALL!**
IHN&L,
Ken
Hi,
The millenial reign of Christ will reestablish the sabbath.Isaiha 66:22-23 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will
make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your
seed and your name remain.
And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to
another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to
worship before me, saith the LORD…for flesh.
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