- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Hi MS,
So the OT Law is not obselete.
It cannot save us.
It cannot condemn us.
It is as a guide to sin so we can check whether we are being led by the Spirit.Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,20:34) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,20:09) Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,19:46) Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 28 2007,19:21) Oh Music… I cant be bothered reading all that yet. You know what? … you can bite all you like at me… when i have studied a book for as long as you have I will have the ammunition to throw it all back at you and I know this. None of you realise how much I have learned in 2 months and I repeat 2 months!! and Look how long I have managed to hold you back… You Pack of Vicious Wolves!!! God Bless
Phoenix
First of all, My priginal comment about agents of Satan as not even directed at you. I was disconcerted with Kenrich generalities that all men are agents of Satan. Then He had the nerve to question my salvation. something I have never done to anyone on this board.
The only thing I did for you was to post a resource you could use in your studies. For that I was blasted had my salvation questioned and was told all human teachers were agents of Satan. I happen to know Jeff Benner (the author of the website I gave you) and if there is a more Godly devout man, I have not met him. Perhaps I am a bit sensitive to those who choose to publish judgements on others they do not know or who use broad generalities against all mankind. Man is a precious commodity to God. so precious that Jesus died for them. Would Jesus die for junk or agents of Satan?I applaud your dedication to learning truth from God. I too believe in the leading of the Spirit. i also believe there is need for good anointed teachers to help guide us.
If I have offended you, I do appologise. It was not my intention. I think lyou inadvertently got caught up in my frustration with Kenrich's remarks about mankind. and satans agents.
Hey! If their teachings line up with the word of God then sure I will listen to that part of what they said. Problem is not everyone can't descern Satan's lies. Every denomination has some truth but at their core is a lie.But if you are going to quote evryone and everything but scripture and then the little scripture you do quote is twisted (because your teachers are twisted men) to try and nullify the word of God when there are more than enough scriptures saying the same thing: “Keep the Commandments of God”.
Just give me scripture that says different. That's all you have to do is scripturely prove your teaching. But you haven't and cannot because it's not in the BIBLE. Now is it?
I think you mistake my comments with someone else. I have never (to my knowledge) said we should not keep the commandments. My original post was about a richer understanding of what that means. It was about understanding the meaning of the Hebrew words.translated concerning the 10 commandments.
I think you have me mixed with another on this thread.did you dissagree with those interpretations of the Hebrew?
For example, I gave a Hebrew deffinition of Commandment as being – “direstions toward Zion”. This is preciesely the Herew concept Jesus taught when asked how to get eternal life. Jesus said follow the commandments/directions toward Zion. Do you dissagree with this deffinition? If so. i am more then willing to entertain your concepts of the Hebrew meaning of that word.
i also used the deffinition of Keep as to guard and protect. The concept of guarding and protecting was a very serious and important idea to the Hebrews. Do you dissagree with that? Again show me your Hebrew scholarship. I could be wrong. Show me.Some on these boards are so busy throwing out English translations of scripture, they never stop to consider if the scriptures they so verbosely throw out rally mean what they think they mean in their original languages. From my original post untill now that is still my point.
Sir if everyone had to be a scholar then no one would be saved. The Holy Spirit gives me understanding of the scriptures.Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into ALL the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Do you have a personal relationship with Jesus? Does this Spirit that will guide you to ALL truth bear witness with your spirit?
Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,20:26) Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,20:13) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,19:33) Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,16:19) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,15:46) Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,15:36) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,14:59) The bible was written by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit teaches and guides us. Why do we need man to tell us what the scriptures say. Doesn't the Holy Spirit know what He's doing? If you trust man (Satan's agent) you will be deceived.
I think these are some of the most rediculous statements I have ever seen posted on any of the dozen boards I have seen.Why do you post in English? That is not the Holy Language of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit wrote in ancient Hebrew pictographs . You should not use translations made by Satan's agents.
It is helpfull in one respect. I can discount everything you say and so can everyone else, since you are one of Satan's agenst. (your words not mine) We all might as well stop posting because everything everyone has to say is coming from Satan's Agents.
Get over it!!!!
AH! I'm sorry you feel that way. In fact I'm sadden that you feel that way. But more I'm fear for your salvation because you trust in man instead of the Spirit of God.1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and “ye need not that any man teach you”: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
You deny the very words oF God?
I really must go.
Latter IHL,
Ken
I am saddened for you and fear your salvatin is in peril because you just used an English version of the Bible that was translated by an Agent of Satan. (man)
Secondly you interpet within yourself what the Holy Spirit is telling you and you cannot be trusted because you are an agent of satan. (your words not mine)Why don't you admit your hipocracy. What you are really saying is that anyone who does not agree with your edicts of what the Holy Spirit is saying must be learning from man who is an agent of Satan. By what wild stretch of the imagination are you the authority on what is being said by the Holy Spirit to others. Jeff Benner, who worte the info I posted can as easily say that the Holy Spirit told him his interpretation of the ancient Hebrew is correct as you can say yours is. I can as easily say that the Pictographs I have interpreted are as much taught by the Holy Spirit as anything you have posted.
Sir I have given you nothing but scripture save the UN-Bias definition of a dictionary.You have quoted everything but the scriptures and the ones you twisted other scripture has straighten out.
I don't expect everyone to agree with scripture. If everyone did then scripture would be a lie.
Wide is the path to destruction and narrow is the path to righteousness.
Scripture will weed the garden.
I have not seen you post one single Hebrew or Greek scripture. What you have posted is English translations of the original scriptures. Translations which, according to you, are made by “agents of Satan/man”. My original post on this thread was all about scripture. It was about understanding the Hebrew scriptures by which we derive our English verses. in particular it was about the verses concerning the 10 comandments, the subject of this thread. My point then and and still is, is that without a real understanding of what the Holy Spirit inspired and actually wrote (Hebrew and Greek) you cannot claim a positive understanding of scripture.
You can throw around all the English scripture you want, but unless you have the same understanding from the original languages that the Holy Spirit wrote in, you can be in great error.I do not deny that we should all be led by the Spirit, but I also believe God can lead and annoint others to teach us.
What I do find at fault in your comments is your generalities that all men or at least all teachers are agents of Satan.
Secondly it is not appreciated when you question my salvation.
Let me see if I understand you. God allows His word to be mistranslated into another language. Who determines what mistakes God made LOL! MAN
Do you then think that all translations are inspired by God and without error?
Do you think one man, heavily influinced by the Cathoilc Church, with a total of 8 bible manuscripts (none older then 700 AD could translate as well as ;
A group of 50 from all denominations with 1000's of manuscripts dating to as early as 90 AD
This is the difference between the King James Version and the New American Standard Bible. Is it reasonable that these two versions should carry the same credibility?Let me give one example of Man's tampering with scripture translations..
1 John 5; 7and 8Verse 8 reads as follows For there are three that bear witness the spirit and the water and the blood and the three for one thing, agreement.
A foot note states in the NAS “A few LATE manuscripts read—
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit and these three are one and there are three that bear witness on earth , the spirit , the water, and the blood and these three are in agreement.
The NAS does not include it in the verse because the evidence would not support it being in the original.
Further research shows that there is no manuscript prior to about 1400 that include this section. It is in the Latin Vulgate translated by the Catholic Church. The latin vulgate was used extensively in the translation of the King James Version and was strongly influinced by the pro Catholic King James. There is evidence that King James used his power to coerce the translators to do nothing that would contradict the catholic faith. The earlier manuscripts of Alepf, B, A. support the scripture without the added text. These manuscripts are from several hundred years earlier then the 1400’s. The most well respected translators such as Westcott and Hort, Nestle, Augustinius Merk SJ do not include it.
How can God state in Revelations that no one can a
dd to the scriptures and then inspire someone to add this portion of verse that cannot be found in even one older manuscripts.Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,20:55) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,20:26) Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,20:13) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,19:33) Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,16:19) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,15:46) Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,15:36) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,14:59) The bible was written by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit teaches and guides us. Why do we need man to tell us what the scriptures say. Doesn't the Holy Spirit know what He's doing? If you trust man (Satan's agent) you will be deceived.
I think these are some of the most rediculous statements I have ever seen posted on any of the dozen boards I have seen.Why do you post in English? That is not the Holy Language of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit wrote in ancient Hebrew pictographs . You should not use translations made by Satan's agents.
It is helpfull in one respect. I can discount everything you say and so can everyone else, since you are one of Satan's agenst. (your words not mine) We all might as well stop posting because everything everyone has to say is coming from Satan's Agents.
Get over it!!!!
AH! I'm sorry you feel that way. In fact I'm sadden that you feel that way. But more I'm fear for your salvation because you trust in man instead of the Spirit of God.1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and “ye need not that any man teach you”: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
You deny the very words oF God?
I really must go.
Latter IHL,
Ken
I am saddened for you and fear your salvatin is in peril because you just used an English version of the Bible that was translated by an Agent of Satan. (man)
Secondly you interpet within yourself what the Holy Spirit is telling you and you cannot be trusted because you are an agent of satan. (your words not mine)Why don't you admit your hipocracy. What you are really saying is that anyone who does not agree with your edicts of what the Holy Spirit is saying must be learning from man who is an agent of Satan. By what wild stretch of the imagination are you the authority on what is being said by the Holy Spirit to others. Jeff Benner, who worte the info I posted can as easily say that the Holy Spirit told him his interpretation of the ancient Hebrew is correct as you can say yours is. I can as easily say that the Pictographs I have interpreted are as much taught by the Holy Spirit as anything you have posted.
Sir I have given you nothing but scripture save the UN-Bias definition of a dictionary.You have quoted everything but the scriptures and the ones you twisted other scripture has straighten out.
I don't expect everyone to agree with scripture. If everyone did then scripture would be a lie.
Wide is the path to destruction and narrow is the path to righteousness.
Scripture will weed the garden.
I have not seen you post one single Hebrew or Greek scripture. What you have posted is English translations of the original scriptures. Translations which, according to you, are made by “agents of Satan/man”. My original post on this thread was all about scripture. It was about understanding the Hebrew scriptures by which we derive our English verses. in particular it was about the verses concerning the 10 comandments, the subject of this thread. My point then and and still is, is that without a real understanding of what the Holy Spirit inspired and actually wrote (Hebrew and Greek) you cannot claim a positive understanding of scripture.
You can throw around all the English scripture you want, but unless you have the same understanding from the original languages that the Holy Spirit wrote in, you can be in great error.I do not deny that we should all be led by the Spirit, but I also believe God can lead and annoint others to teach us.
What I do find at fault in your comments is your generalities that all men or at least all teachers are agents of Satan.
Secondly it is not appreciated when you question my salvation.
Let me see if I understand you. God allows His word to be mistranslated into another language. Who determines what mistakes God made LOL! MAN
Do you then think that all translations are inspired by God and without error?
Do you think one man, heavily influinced by the Cathoilc Church, with a total of 8 bible manuscripts (none older then 700 AD could translate as well as ;
A group of 50 from all denominations with 1000's of manuscripts dating to as early as 90 AD
This is the difference between the King James Version and the New American Standard Bible. Is it reasonable that these two versions should carry the same credibility?Let me give one example of Man's tampering with scripture translations..
1 John 5; 7and 8Verse 8 reads as follows For there are three that bear witness the spirit and the water and the blood and the three for one thing, agreement.
A foot note states in the NAS “A few LATE manuscripts read—
For there are three that bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit and these three are one and there are three that bear witness on earth , the spirit , the water, and the blood and these three are in agreement.
The NAS does not include it in the verse because the evidence would not support it being in the original.
Further research shows that there is no manuscript prior to about 1400 that include this section. It is in the Latin Vulgate translated by the Catholic Church. The latin vulgate was used extensively in the translation of the King James Version and was strongly influinced by the pro Catholic King James. There is evidence that King James used his power to coerce the translators to do nothing that would contradict the catholic faith. The earlier manuscripts of Alepf, B, A. support the scripture without the added text. These manuscripts are from several hundre
d years earlier then the 1400’s. The most well respected translators such as Westcott and Hort, Nestle, Augustinius Merk SJ do not include it.
How can God state in Revelations that no one can add to the scriptures and then inspire someone to add this portion of verse that cannot be found in even one older manuscripts.
Ok scholar which translation is correct?Rev 22:14
(ASV) Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have the right to come to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city.
(CEV) God will bless all who have washed their robes. They will each have the right to eat fruit from the tree that gives life, and they can enter the gates of the city.
(DRB) Blessed are they that wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb: that they may have a right to the tree of life and may enter in by the gates into the city.
(ESV) Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
(GNB) Happy are those who wash their robes clean and so have the right to eat the fruit from the tree of life and to go through the gates into the city.
(GW) “Blessed are those who wash their robes so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
(KJV) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(KJV+) Blessed3107 are they that do4160 his848 commandments,1785 that2443 they846 may have2071 right1849 to1909 the3588 tree3586 of life,2222 and2532 may enter in1525 through the3588 gates4440 into1519 the3588 city.4172
(KJVR) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(LITV) Blessed are the ones doing His commands, that their authority will be over the Tree of Life, and by the gates they may enter into the city.
(MKJV) Blessed are they who do His commandments, that their authority will be over the Tree of Life, and they may enter in by the gates into the city.
(MSG) “How blessed are those who wash their robes! The Tree of Life is theirs for good, and they'll walk through the gates to the City.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2007,20:42) Hi MS,
So the OT Law is not obselete.
It cannot save us.
It cannot condemn us.
It is as a guide to sin so we can check whether we are being led by the Spirit.
The commandments of Jesus must be kept in order to abide in him and him in you.John 15
1″I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2Every branch of mine that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. 11These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.Jesus goes on to explain that Love fulfills all the commandments. However, we have to keep his other commandments as well, love is simply the method that covers all commandments and ensures you are keeping them.
You first come to Christ by faith and hearing the gospel you repent are baptised and sealed by the Holy Spirit. You have been saved.
However, to abide in the position of salvation you have to abide in Jesus and you do that by keeping his commandments. His commandments include his narrower teachings on the 10 commandments such as found in the Sermon on the Mount.
Once saved always saved was a new doctrine created by the reformation. It never existed prior to that time except for a few gnostic sects who didn't believe in the scriptures and rejected them. Galatians 1:8 is clear on how Paul felt about new gospels being preached.
We are delivered from sin not given a license to continue living in sin. We are delivered by the spirit living in us and producing the fruits of the spirit. These fruits have no condemnation by the law and as long as we walk in them are not judge at all by the law.
But if we don't walk in the fruits of the spirit by abiding in christ and christ in us then:
8If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. 11For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. 13For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
We better speak and act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty by living by the fruits of the spirit. Because if we don't, we will be judged by the law.
Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,20:46) [/quote]
Sir if everyone had to be a scholar then no one would be saved. The Holy Spirit gives me understanding of the scriptures.Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into ALL the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Do you have a personal relationship with Jesus? Does this Spirit that will guide you to ALL truth bear witness with your spirit?
You are right. Not everyone can be a scolar. that is why we must at times depend on those whom God has anointed to teach us. To begin with it might be helpfull to not assume that all men are agents of Satan.As to your scripture qoute concerning being led by the Spirit. what pevents me from saying I am led by the spirit in the opposite way you are led. By what standard do you judge who is right. For me to say that God speaks to me prophetically and leads me is as much proof as you saying the same about yourself. For this reason we have a “more sure word of prophecy”. (The Bible) In order to understand that word of prophecy we must study to “show ourselves approved”.
It is still unappreciated when you question my salvation. Yes i have a personal relationship with Jesus as my saviour and lord. I have walked with God for over 50 years. I believe He physically rose from the dead.
I find it curious that my salvation is questioned by one who shows animousity toward their fellow man by claiming they are agents of Satan. i would certainly call that a form of hatred toward their brothers. I would also consider loving God being one aspect of being saved. Even more curious is that God says, if you say you love God and Hate your brother, you are a liar. I will not question your salvation, but lining up your comments about men and this particular portion of scripture does bring up some thoughts.Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,21:06) Ok scholar which translation is correct? Rev 22:14
(ASV) Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have the right to come to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city.
(CEV) God will bless all who have washed their robes. They will each have the right to eat fruit from the tree that gives life, and they can enter the gates of the city.
(DRB) Blessed are they that wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb: that they may have a right to the tree of life and may enter in by the gates into the city.
(ESV) Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.
(GNB) Happy are those who wash their robes clean and so have the right to eat the fruit from the tree of life and to go through the gates into the city.
(GW) “Blessed are those who wash their robes so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
(KJV) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(KJV+) Blessed3107 are they that do4160 his848 commandments,1785 that2443 they846 may have2071 right1849 to1909 the3588 tree3586 of life,2222 and2532 may enter in1525 through the3588 gates4440 into1519 the3588 city.4172
(KJVR) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
(LITV) Blessed are the ones doing His commands, that their authority will be over the Tree of Life, and by the gates they may enter into the city.
(MKJV) Blessed are they who do His commandments, that their authority will be over the Tree of Life, and they may enter in by the gates into the city.
(MSG) “How blessed are those who wash their robes! The Tree of Life is theirs for good, and they'll walk through the gates to the City.
Did not say I was a scholar and I would appreciate if you would not put words in my mouth. In fact my point was to use other's schollarship to help understand verses.
Don't know which is correct. I have not studied it and I am not inclined to study it now just to satisfy your game. If I needed to know for a ligitimate reason that is germain to the subject I would study it.the fact is we are both “stubornly” right. We need the schollarship of others and we also need to be led by the Spirit to all truth. We need be close enough to God to discern if another is of God or not and if they have some bit of wisdom or truth to teach us. We also ae required to study and be open to being taught by God in whatever way He choses to do that.
Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 28 2007,21:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2007,20:42) Hi MS,
So the OT Law is not obselete.
It cannot save us.
It cannot condemn us.
It is as a guide to sin so we can check whether we are being led by the Spirit.
The commandments of Jesus must be kept in order to abide in him and him in you.John 15
1″I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2Every branch of mine that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. 11These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.Jesus goes on to explain that Love fulfills all the commandments. However, we have to keep his other commandments as well, love is simply the method that covers all commandments and ensures you are keeping them.
You first come to Christ by faith and hearing the gospel you repent are baptised and sealed by the Holy Spirit. You have been saved.
However, to abide in the position of salvation you have to abide in Jesus and you do that by keeping his commandments. His commandments include his narrower teachings on the 10 commandments such as found in the Sermon on the Mount.
Once saved always saved was a new doctrine created by the reformation. It never existed prior to that time except for a few gnostic sects who didn't believe in the scriptures and rejected them. Galatians 1:8 is clear on how Paul felt about new gospels being preached.
We are delivered from sin not given a license to continue living in sin. We are delivered by the spirit living in us and producing the fruits of the spirit. These fruits have no condemnation by the law and as long as we walk in them are not judge at all by the law.
But if we don't walk in the fruits of the spirit by abiding in christ and christ in us then:
8If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. 11For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. 13For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
We better speak and act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty by living by the fruits of the spirit. Because if we don't, we will be judged by the law.
Hi Ms,
The work of sanctification and leading us in Christ is not our own works but that of the Spirit of God. We must rest from our own works [heb 4] and stop trying to save ourselves as it is impossible to do that.There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus though not all who receive that seed of the Word nourish it and let it change them in the inner man into Christ and thus they cannot produce any useful fruit and will be pruned off.
Focussing on not breaking commands, and God gives many more commands that the ten, is not the new Spiritual plan of God and can divert us and stop us listening for His voice of direction in our lives.
But God is faithful even if we are not.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2007,21:33) Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 28 2007,21:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2007,20:42) Hi MS,
So the OT Law is not obselete.
It cannot save us.
It cannot condemn us.
It is as a guide to sin so we can check whether we are being led by the Spirit.
The commandments of Jesus must be kept in order to abide in him and him in you.John 15
1″I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2Every branch of mine that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. 11These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.Jesus goes on to explain that Love fulfills all the commandments. However, we have to keep his other commandments as well, love is simply the method that covers all commandments and ensures you are keeping them.
You first come to Christ by faith and hearing the gospel you repent are baptised and sealed by the Holy Spirit. You have been saved.
However, to abide in the position of salvation you have to abide in Jesus and you do that by keeping his commandments. His commandments include his narrower teachings on the 10 commandments such as found in the Sermon on the Mount.
Once saved always saved was a new doctrine created by the reformation. It never existed prior to that time except for a few gnostic sects who didn't believe in the scriptures and rejected them. Galatians 1:8 is clear on how Paul felt about new gospels being preached.
We are delivered from sin not given a license to continue living in sin. We are delivered by the spirit living in us and producing the fruits of the spirit. These fruits have no condemnation by the law and as long as we walk in them are not judge at all by the law.
But if we don't walk in the fruits of the spirit by abiding in christ and christ in us then:
8If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. 11For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. 13For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
We better speak and act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty by living by the fruits of the spirit. Because if we don't, we will be judged by the law.
Hio Ms,
The work of sanctification and leading us in Christ is not our own works but that of the Spirit of God. We must rest from our own works [heb 4] and stop trying to save ourselves as it is impossible to do that.
There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus though not all who receive that seed nourish it and let it change them in the inner man into Christ and thus they cannort produce any useful fruit and will be pruned off.But God is faithful even if we are not.
Exactly,I am not inclined to argue semantics of how exactly the regneration process is done. I think we agree.
Salvation is by faith. Remaining saved is by allowing the spirit in you to transform you. Which will result in you keeping the commandments of Christ and abiding in him. Does this mean we have any role? I believe it does, we have to meet Christ by allowing us to operate by the spirit and walk in the fruits of the spirit. The fruits of the spirit are not judged by the law.
We are not given a license to sin, however, and those who continue to do so thinking that “easy believism” will save them are in serious danger. Even the demons have that kind of faith they believe the truth.If this does not occur then the law will judge you because Christ is not in you.
Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,21:19) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,20:46) [/quote]
Sir if everyone had to be a scholar then no one would be saved. The Holy Spirit gives me understanding of the scriptures.Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into ALL the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Do you have a personal relationship with Jesus? Does this Spirit that will guide you to ALL truth bear witness with your spirit?
You are right. Not everyone can be a scolar. that is why we must at times depend on those whom God has anointed to teach us. To begin with it might be helpfull to not assume that all men are agents of Satan.As to your scripture qoute concerning being led by the Spirit. what pevents me from saying I am led by the spirit in the opposite way you are led. By what standard do you judge who is right. For me to say that God speaks to me prophetically and leads me is as much proof as you saying the same about yourself. For this reason we have a “more sure word of prophecy”. (The Bible) In order to understand that word of prophecy we must study to “show ourselves approved”.
It is still unappreciated when you question my salvation. Yes i have a personal relationship with Jesus as my saviour and lord. I have walked with God for over 50 years. I believe He physically rose from the dead.
I find it curious that my salvation is questioned by one who shows animousity toward their fellow man by claiming they are agents of Satan. i would certainly call that a form of hatred toward their brothers. I would also consider loving God being one aspect of being saved. Even more curious is that God says, if you say you love God and Hate your brother, you are a liar. I will not question your salvation, but lining up your comments about men and this particular portion of scripture does bring up some thoughts.
This is getting old. The Holy Spirit guides us to ALL truth. We don't need man to teach us.Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, **he shall teach you all things,** and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, **even the Spirit of truth,** which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and **ye need not that any man teach you:** but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, **he will guide you into all truth:** for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Don't you think that God (who knows the beginning from the end) knew what Satan was going to do. What was His instruction. No man teach you. Holy Spirit will teach and guide you to ALL truth.
Scripture speaks for itself through the Spirit not what a man says the scripture says. 2 Pet. 1:20
Hi MS,
The law does not judge Christ.
The sons of God should not sin but do.
All are babies who have to learn, and from within, and by the Spirit, and according to the Word.
Babies do and say stupid things but parents ignore much of it taking into account their immaturity and ignorance and God is a good Dad.Hi MS and everyone else
I apologise for my remarks. It will stop now. I hope you all can forgive me. I still stand by the Sabbath observance and I wish to no longer try and prove you wrong. Sorry. My participation in this will stop.
God Bless
Hugs
PhoenixQuote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,21:40) This is getting old. The Holy Spirit guides us to ALL truth. We don't need man to teach us. Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, **he shall teach you all things,** and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, **even the Spirit of truth,** which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and **ye need not that any man teach you:** but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, **he will guide you into all truth:** for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Don't you think that God (who knows the beginning from the end) knew what Satan was going to do. What was His instruction. No man teach you. Holy Spirit will teach and guide you to ALL truth.
Scripture speaks for itself through the Spirit not what a man says the scripture says. 2 Pet. 1:20
I am glad that you posted this one. It proves my point exactly. From your process of being taught exclusively from the Spirit, you come to a conclusion that man is not used to teach God truth. This, of course, is contradictory to very clear scripture. I posted the following scriptures previously, but you ignored them. I am not surprised.Even the most basic common sense should tell a person that you cannot draw a conclussion from scripture that cotradicts other clear scriptures. This is the most common form of dishonesty in bible study. You have pulled scriptures out of the general context of the bible and drawn conclussions that are false. False because they clearly contradict what God says and does.
Did God appoint positions that are unecessary?
1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.Ephesians 4:11
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
Does God wish us to aspire to the high calling of something we should not have?
Hebrews 5:12
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
Paul and Baranabus taught. Are they in a worthless occupation?
Acts 15:35
But Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch, teaching and preaching with many others also, the word of the Lord.
John the Baptist taught. Was he wasting his time?
Luke 11:1
It happened that while Jesus was praying in a certain place, after He had finished, one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray just as John also taught his disciples.”
Apollos, Priscilla and Aquiilla taught. Did they waste their time?
24Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures.
25This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John;
26and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.
Levi taught and God commended him for it. Not needed?
5″My covenant with him was one of life and peace, and I gave them to him as an object of reverence; so he revered Me and stood in awe of My name.
6″True instruction was in his mouth and unrighteousness was not found on his lips; he walked with Me in peace and uprightness, and he turned many back from iniquity.
7″For the lips of a priest should preserve knowledge, and men should seek instruction from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.
Did the priests wasted their time teaching?
Malachi 2:7
“For the lips of a priest should preserve knowledge, and men should seek instruction from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.
Are fathers wasting their time?
Ephesians 6:4
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
Paul foolishly wasted his time teaching?
1 Thessalonians 4:1
Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more.
Whose instructions? Supernatural through the Spirit or God speaking through men?
2 Thessalonians 3:14
If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame.
Better not preach, reprove, rebuke, exhort or instruct because it is not needed.
2 Timothy 4:2
preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction
Titus 2:1
But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine.
Agents of Satan?
25And he left for Tarsus to look for Saul;
26and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch And for an entire year they met with the church and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.
Truths of God taught to men and then taught to others.
1 Cor 2
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
13which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
Words or letters given personally to each individual or given to men who teach to others?
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
Why does God tell us to test the Spirits if all we need do is reject all human prophets/teachers?
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.Romans 2
17But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God,18and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law,
19and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
20a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth,
Gal 6
4But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another.5For each one will bear his own load.
6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him.
And finally
Matthew 22
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the na
me of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus tells His disciples (men) to go out and teach all nations. You say this is unecessary. Whom should I believe?
I am more then willing to say that we learn both supernaturally from God via the Spirit as your scriptures indicate. However, we also learn from men as they have been taught by the Spirit or other men as my scriptures indicate. This is the only conclussion that can come from these two sets of scripture. If you are willing to see this and admit to it, then live in contadiction to scripture.
Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,23:01) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,21:40) This is getting old. The Holy Spirit guides us to ALL truth. We don't need man to teach us. Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, **he shall teach you all things,** and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, **even the Spirit of truth,** which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and **ye need not that any man teach you:** but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, **he will guide you into all truth:** for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Don't you think that God (who knows the beginning from the end) knew what Satan was going to do. What was His instruction. No man teach you. Holy Spirit will teach and guide you to ALL truth.
Scripture speaks for itself through the Spirit not what a man says the scripture says. 2 Pet. 1:20
I am glad that you posted this one. It proves my point exactly. From your process of being taught exclusively from the Spirit, you come to a conclusion that man is not used to teach God truth. This, of course, is contradictory to very clear scripture. I posted the following scriptures previously, but you ignored them. I am not surprised.Even the most basic common sense should tell a person that you cannot draw a conclussion from scripture that cotradicts other clear scriptures. This is the most common form of dishonesty in bible study. You have pulled scriptures out of the general context of the bible and drawn conclussions that are false. False because they clearly contradict what God says and does.
Did God appoint positions that are unecessary?
1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.Ephesians 4:11
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
Does God wish us to aspire to the high calling of something we should not have?
Hebrews 5:12
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
Paul and Baranabus taught. Are they in a worthless occupation?
Acts 15:35
But Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch, teaching and preaching with many others also, the word of the Lord.
John the Baptist taught. Was he wasting his time?
Luke 11:1
It happened that while Jesus was praying in a certain place, after He had finished, one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray just as John also taught his disciples.”
Apollos, Priscilla and Aquiilla taught. Did they waste their time?
24Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures.
25This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John;
26and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.
Levi taught and God commended him for it. Not needed?
5″My covenant with him was one of life and peace, and I gave them to him as an object of reverence; so he revered Me and stood in awe of My name.
6″True instruction was in his mouth and unrighteousness was not found on his lips; he walked with Me in peace and uprightness, and he turned many back from iniquity.
7″For the lips of a priest should preserve knowledge, and men should seek instruction from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.
Did the priests wasted their time teaching?
Malachi 2:7
“For the lips of a priest should preserve knowledge, and men should seek instruction from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.
Are fathers wasting their time?
Ephesians 6:4
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
Paul foolishly wasted his time teaching?
1 Thessalonians 4:1
Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more.
Whose instructions? Supernatural through the Spirit or God speaking through men?
2 Thessalonians 3:14
If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame.
Better not preach, reprove, rebuke, exhort or instruct because it is not needed.
2 Timothy 4:2
preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction
Titus 2:1
But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine.
Agents of Satan?
25And he left for Tarsus to look for Saul;
26and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch And for an entire year they met with the church and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.
Truths of God taught to men and then taught to others.
1 Cor 2
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
13which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
Words or letters given personally to each individual or given to men who teach to others?
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
Why does God tell us to test the Spirits if all we need do is reject all human prophets/teachers?
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.Romans 2
17But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God,18and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law,
19and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
20a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth,
Gal 6
4But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another.5For each one will bear his own load.
6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him.And finally
Matthew 22
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus tells His disciples (men) to go out and teach all nations. You say this is unecessary. Whom should I believe?
I am more then willing to say that we learn both supernaturally from God via the Spirit as your scriptures indicate. However, we also learn from men as they have been taught by the Spirit or other men as my scriptures indicate. This is the only conclussion that can come from these two sets of scripture. If you are willing to see this and admit to it, then live in contadiction to scripture.
SORRY —- Typo the last line should be “If you are “NOT” willing to see this and admit to it, then live in contadiction to scripture.”You know I regard these debate forums as mostly entertainment. I know some on here get all worked up thinking it is so serious.
I just spent the last half hour online with my son who is overseas in the service. He tells me about how they depend on their brothers in the field and his love for his fello warriors. You sure don't hear him calling them agents of satan. When I contemplate that, this venue and the petty arguments seem even less important.
Everyone wants to argue jot and tittle of scripture, yet few if any want to talk about function in the real world. Function of doctrine. Function within the plan of God or even function within the word. Let's just keep the philosophical discussion going.
Go stand a post in the srvice and you will soon be asking about the reality of how God's teachings really work in the real world.
Come on nick – your turn to tell me this post is not about the 10 commandments.
Kenrch – aren't you going to tell me about how all men are agents of satan. Are you including those dying to preserve your silly right to get on here and voice your opinion. Not only did I find your comment calling all men agents of Satan insulting to me but to my creator.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 01 2007,01:58) Hi m42,
Do you still learn?
From honest anointed teachers of God and from his Spirit. Two things I find very rarely on these types of forums.Hi m42,
You will only find honest simple searchers here so perhaps you need to look to the Areopagus?
The company there is most amusing I hear.Quote (music4two @ Feb. 28 2007,23:01) Quote (kenrch @ Feb. 28 2007,21:40) This is getting old. The Holy Spirit guides us to ALL truth. We don't need man to teach us. Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, **he shall teach you all things,** and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, **even the Spirit of truth,** which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and **ye need not that any man teach you:** but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, **he will guide you into all truth:** for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Don't you think that God (who knows the beginning from the end) knew what Satan was going to do. What was His instruction. No man teach you. Holy Spirit will teach and guide you to ALL truth.
Scripture speaks for itself through the Spirit not what a man says the scripture says. 2 Pet. 1:20
I am glad that you posted this one. It proves my point exactly. From your process of being taught exclusively from the Spirit, you come to a conclusion that man is not used to teach God truth. This, of course, is contradictory to very clear scripture. I posted the following scriptures previously, but you ignored them. I am not surprised.Even the most basic common sense should tell a person that you cannot draw a conclussion from scripture that cotradicts other clear scriptures. This is the most common form of dishonesty in bible study. You have pulled scriptures out of the general context of the bible and drawn conclussions that are false. False because they clearly contradict what God says and does.
Did God appoint positions that are unecessary?
1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.Ephesians 4:11
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,
Does God wish us to aspire to the high calling of something we should not have?
Hebrews 5:12
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
Paul and Baranabus taught. Are they in a worthless occupation?
Acts 15:35
But Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch, teaching and preaching with many others also, the word of the Lord.
John the Baptist taught. Was he wasting his time?
Luke 11:1
It happened that while Jesus was praying in a certain place, after He had finished, one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray just as John also taught his disciples.”
Apollos, Priscilla and Aquiilla taught. Did they waste their time?
24Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures.
25This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John;
26and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.
Levi taught and God commended him for it. Not needed?
5″My covenant with him was one of life and peace, and I gave them to him as an object of reverence; so he revered Me and stood in awe of My name.
6″True instruction was in his mouth and unrighteousness was not found on his lips; he walked with Me in peace and uprightness, and he turned many back from iniquity.
7″For the lips of a priest should preserve knowledge, and men should seek instruction from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.
Did the priests wasted their time teaching?
Malachi 2:7
“For the lips of a priest should preserve knowledge, and men should seek instruction from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.
Are fathers wasting their time?
Ephesians 6:4
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
Paul foolishly wasted his time teaching?
1 Thessalonians 4:1
Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more.
Whose instructions? Supernatural through the Spirit or God speaking through men?
2 Thessalonians 3:14
If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame.
Better not preach, reprove, rebuke, exhort or instruct because it is not needed.
2 Timothy 4:2
preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction
Titus 2:1
But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine.
Agents of Satan?
25And he left for Tarsus to look for Saul;
26and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch And for an entire year they met with the church and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.
Truths of God taught to men and then taught to others.
1 Cor 2
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
13which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
Words or letters given personally to each individual or given to men who teach to others?
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.
Why does God tell us to test the Spirits if all we need do is reject all human prophets/teachers?
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.Romans 2
17But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God,18and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law,
19and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
20a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth,
Gal 6
4But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another.5For each one will bear his own load.
6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him.And finally
Matthew 22
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jesus tells His disciples (men) to go out and teach all nations. You say this is unecessary. Whom should I believe?
I am more then willing to say that we learn both supernaturally from God via the Spirit as your scriptures indicate. However, we also learn from men as they have been taught by the Spirit or other men as my scriptures indicate. This is the only conclussion that can come from these two sets of scripture. If you are willing to see this and admit to it, then live in contadiction to scripture.
If I'm not mistaken I said that IF their teaching lines up with the word then I will accept their teaching. Of course if their teaching does not line up with the word as most denominations then I spit it out. I won't swallow a lie of Satan no matter how popular the teaching.Then even If their teaching seem to line up I must get confirmation from the Spirit otherwise it is not truth yet.
Your conclusion of me is wrong. As I said IF the persons teaching lines up with the word and the Spirit confirms it then Yes I accept it. I have already said somewhere in this forum that sometimes we can miss what the Spirit is trying to tell us and so the Holy spirit will use a brother or sister to give the message. BUT again it must line up and the Spirit bear witness.
When it comes to the Sabbath I have no need of any man to teach me. The scripture is plain and the Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit. So when someone says this one and that one then ignores scripture I have to wonder.
Who are you listing to man or the Spirit. If you trust man you will be deceived sooner or latter the word is the only truth period.Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth: thy word is truth.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
