The Ten Commandments

[Phoenix]

Hi

First of all, I would like to ask the owner of this site if it would be possible if they could explain the Ten Commandments and also explain why the Sabbath was moved or why some christians no longer hold the Sabbath anymore.

Secondly, I did search to make sure there wasnt a thread already posted on the board and neither found one to do with the commandments or the sabbath, so I decided to make a new post to start up a discussion on the Ten Commandments and discover everyones views on the laws particularly the sabbath.

Is there anyone here that still hold the Sabbath as Law? If yes what day is the Sabbath? Is there anything else in the Ten Commandments that you have concerns about?

I learned on the internet that the Sabbath is Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. I have only just started to do this although this weekend I had forgotten to organise myself so that I wouldnt be doing any work.

Another law that I know I would find difficult to put into practise is the tenth law – you shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbour.

I know I desire a lot of things ie: I wish i could have my friend brand new computer and so on lol, I wish I was that person that won lotto last weekend. You know what i mean?

Anyway, Im looking forward to hearing your views on the matter.

GBUA

Hugs
Phoenix

[kenrch]

Quote (Phoenix @ Feb. 17 2007,13:13)

Hi First of all, I would like to ask the owner of this site if it would be possible if they could explain the Ten Commandments and also explain why the Sabbath was moved or why some christians no longer hold the Sabbath anymore. Secondly, I did search to make sure there wasnt a thread already posted on the board and neither found one to do with the commandments or the sabbath, so I decided to make a new post to start up a discussion on the Ten Commandments and discover everyones views on the laws particularly the sabbath. Is there anyone here that still hold the Sabbath as Law? If yes what day is the Sabbath? Is there anything else in the Ten Commandments that you have concerns about? I learned on the internet that the Sabbath is Friday sundown to Saturday sundown. I have only just started to do this although this weekend I had forgotten to organise myself so that I wouldnt be doing any work. Another law that I know I would find difficult to put into practise is the tenth law – you shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbour. I know I desire a lot of things ie: I wish i could have my friend brand new computer and so on lol, I wish I was that person that won lotto last weekend. You know what i mean? Anyway, Im looking forward to hearing your views on the matter. GBUA Hugs Phoenix

The law is now written on our hearts and minds Heb. 10:16.

Does that mean the the law was done away with? God forbid!

Rom 3:31 Do we then make the law of none effect through faith? God forbid: nay, we establish the law.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus made the law spiritual.

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time , Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.

So how do we keep the Sabbath? Worship, Worship, Worship!

True I worship God everyday but not ALL day. This is what the Sabbath day is for. To rest from your daily routine and fellowship with your Father all day.

The Sabbath is a delight. I willingly desire to be in God's presence all day.

Where is the commandment that did away with the Sabbath. There is none. The Universal Church of Rome (thats what catholic means universal) changed the law just as scripture said she would.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and he shall think to change the “times and the law”; and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and half a time.

It was the UCR who changed the Sabbath day to Sunday. They (the Catholic church) gladly takes full responsibility for changing the law of God.

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

The Sabbath was made for MAN, not just Jews.

Then what law did Jesus fulfill?
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are my words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must needs be fulfilled, which are written in the law of Moses, and the prophets, and the psalms, concerning me.

The sacrifice of Jesus has nothing to do with the Ten commandments which were written by God.

Deu 10:1 At that time Jehovah said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood.
Deu 10:2 And I will write on the tables the words that were on the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.

The other laws were written by Moses.
Deu 31:9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, that bare the ark of the covenant of Jehovah, and unto all the elders of Israel.

And placed on the SIDE of the ark not INSIDE the ark.

Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of Jehovah your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Did God get writter's cramp? That's why he had Moses write the other laws. Did God misjudge how big to make the ark so both laws could fit inside the ark?

There is a separation of the law, which is why Paul's writings are hard to understand.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you;
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make the law of none effect through faith? God forbid: nay, we establish the law.

Which law do we establish? Certainly not the rituals and feasts that Christ fulfilled Luke 24:44.

How do we establish the law.

Rom 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:

Again which law are we to do? Written in our mind and hearts. The sacrifical and ceremonial law of Moses or the law written by God?

First Paul says, has faith done away with the law? God forbid!
Which law is he speaking of? Faith HAS done away with Moses' law, the sacrifical ceremonial law that Christs fulfilled.

Rom 8:4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:7 because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:

Here Paul says that the law is fulfilled for those who walk not after the flesh. Then Paul says in verse seven that the mind set on flesh cannot “keep the law of God”.

This is why Peter said Paul's writtings are hard to understand 2Peter 3:15,16.

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing; but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:

What are the commandments of God?

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.

When the Catholic's changed the sabbath day they still instituted a total rest on their new sabbath Sunday. But because it is a counterfit it didn't last and now if you attened a service on sunday for an hour then the rest of the day is football or whatever anything but spending time with God which is why Jesus died.

Hope this helped,

Kenrch

[david]

“First of all, I would like to ask . . . why some christians no longer hold the Sabbath anymore.”

Ex. 31:16, 17:
“The sons of Israel must keep the sabbath, so as to carry out the sabbath during their generations. It is a covenant to time indefinite [“a perpetual covenant,” RS]. Between me and the sons of Israel it is a sign to time indefinite.”

Notice that sabbath observance was a sign between Jehovah and Israel; this would not be the case if everyone else were also obligated to keep the Sabbath. The Hebrew word rendered “perpetual” in RS is ‛oh·lam′, which basically means a period of time that, from the standpoint of the present, is indefinite or hidden from sight but of long duration. That can mean forever, but not necessarily so. At Numbers 25:13 the same Hebrew word is applied to the priesthood, which later ended, according to Hebrews 7:12.

Rom. 10:4:
“Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness.”

Sabbath keeping was a part of that Law. God used Christ to bring that Law to its end. Our having a righteous standing with God depends on faith in Christ, not on keeping a weekly sabbath.

GALATIANS 4:9-11
“But now that YOU have come to know God, or rather now that YOU have come to be known by God, how is it that YOU are turning back again to the weak and beggarly elementary things and want to slave for them over again? YOU are scrupulously observing days and months and seasons and years. I fear for YOU, that somehow I have toiled to no purpose respecting YOU.”

EPHESIANS 2:13-16
“But now in union with Christ Jesus YOU who were once far off have come to be near by the blood of the Christ. For he is our peace, he who made the two parties one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples in union with himself into one new man and make peace; and that he might fully reconcile both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake, because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself.”

Col. 2:13-16:
: “[God] kindly forgave us all our trespasses and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us . . . Therefore let no man judge you in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath.”

If a person was under the Mosaic Law and was judged guilty of profaning the Sabbath, he was to be stoned to death by the whole congregation, according to Exodus 31:14 and Numbers 15:32-35. Many who argue for sabbath keeping have reason to be glad that we are not under that Law. As shown in the scripture here quoted, an approved standing with God no longer requires observance of the sabbath requirement given to Israel.

[david]

First of all, I would like to ask . . . why the Sabbath was moved

Although Christ was resurrected on the first day of the week (now called Sunday), the Bible contains no instruction to set aside that day of the week as sacred.

“The retention of the old Pagan name of ‘Dies Solis,’ or ‘Sunday,’ for the weekly Christian festival, is, in great measure, owing to the union of Pagan and [so-called] Christian sentiment with which the first day of the week was recommended by Constantine [in an edict in 321 C.E.] to his subjects, Pagan and Christian alike, as the ‘venerable day of the Sun.’ . . . It was his mode of harmonizing the discordant religions of the Empire under one common institution.”—Lectures on the History of the Eastern Church (New York, 1871), A. P. Stanley, p. 291.

[kenrch]

Quote (david @ Feb. 17 2007,16:32)

“First of all, I would like to ask . . . why some christians no longer hold the Sabbath anymore.” Ex. 31:16, 17: “The sons of Israel must keep the sabbath, so as to carry out the sabbath during their generations. It is a covenant to time indefinite [“a perpetual covenant,” RS]. Between me and the sons of Israel it is a sign to time indefinite.” Notice that sabbath observance was a sign between Jehovah and Israel; this would not be the case if everyone else were also obligated to keep the Sabbath. The Hebrew word rendered “perpetual” in RS is ‛oh·lam′, which basically means a period of time that, from the standpoint of the present, is indefinite or hidden from sight but of long duration. That can mean forever, but not necessarily so. At Numbers 25:13 the same Hebrew word is applied to the priesthood, which later ended, according to Hebrews 7:12. Rom. 10:4: “Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness.” Sabbath keeping was a part of that Law. God used Christ to bring that Law to its end. Our having a righteous standing with God depends on faith in Christ, not on keeping a weekly sabbath. GALATIANS 4:9-11 “But now that YOU have come to know God, or rather now that YOU have come to be known by God, how is it that YOU are turning back again to the weak and beggarly elementary things and want to slave for them over again? YOU are scrupulously observing days and months and seasons and years. I fear for YOU, that somehow I have toiled to no purpose respecting YOU.” EPHESIANS 2:13-16 “But now in union with Christ Jesus YOU who were once far off have come to be near by the blood of the Christ. For he is our peace, he who made the two parties one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples in union with himself into one new man and make peace; and that he might fully reconcile both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake, because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself.” Col. 2:13-16: : “[God] kindly forgave us all our trespasses and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us . . . Therefore let no man judge you in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath.” If a person was under the Mosaic Law and was judged guilty of profaning the Sabbath, he was to be stoned to death by the whole congregation, according to Exodus 31:14 and Numbers 15:32-35. Many who argue for sabbath keeping have reason to be glad that we are not under that Law. As shown in the scripture here quoted, an approved standing with God no longer requires observance of the sabbath requirement given to Israel.

Oh so the Sabbath is only for God's people.  Well I'm one of God's people I'm a spiritual Jew.

Perhaps you didn't read the entire posts and see where the Law is separated from Moses' law to God's law.

Has heaven and earth passed away?  Then neither has the Law of God.  It's really that simple.  The remnant keep the commandments of GOD and have the testimony of Jesus.  It's really that simple.

Acts 15 is speaking of ritual laws:

Act 15:5  But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses.

All other as well are speaking of feasts and sacrifical ceremonial days.

Rom. 10:4:
“Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness.”

Which Law?  Christs fulfilled the law concerning Himself.

Luk 24:44  And he said unto them, These are my words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must needs be fulfilled, which are written “IN THE LAW OF MOPSES”, and the prophets, and the psalms, concerning me. It's really that simple.

Again, this is what is ment when Peter said that Paul's writtings are hard to understand ( 2Peter 3:15-16 ).

If a person was under the Mosaic Law and was judged guilty of profaning the Sabbath, he was to be stoned to death by the whole congregation, according to Exodus 31:14 and Numbers 15:32-35. Many who argue for sabbath keeping have reason to be glad that we are not under that Law. As shown in the scripture here quoted, an approved standing with God no longer requires observance of the sabbath requirement given to Israel.

Christ fulfilled the Mosaic law Luke 24:44 It's that simple.

This one is the most popular:
Col. 2:13-16:
: “[God] kindly forgave us all our trespasses and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us . . . Therefore let no man judge you in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath.”
Col 2:14  having blotted out the bond written in “ORDNANCES” that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;

First of all Col. 2:14 says ordnances were nailed to the cross.

Second, again, these scriptures are speaking of Moses' law and not God's law.

(KJV)  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

What does the Ten Commandments have to do with MEAT, or DRINK, or in RESPECT TO A HOLYDAY, NEW MOONS OR THE ANNUAL SABBATH DAYS. If you keep these scriptures in context then you can see that they are speaking of Moses' law.  It's really that simple.

I'm a spiritual Jew.  Christ made the Ten Commandments Spiritual.  Should we murder, steal, show disrespect, ETC. NO but only take out and change the forth commandment.  The very commandment that starts by saying REMEMBER.  It's really that simple.

The Ten commandments are made for Israel only?  So we gentiles can murder.  David you won't murder in defence of your own country WHY?

Jam 2:10  For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is become guilty of all.

According to James if you break one then you have broken all.

BTW notice that James speaks of the WHOLE LAW the Ten Commandments because Jesus fulfilled the ritual and scarifical law of Moses.  It's that simple.

But LOVE is fulfillment of the Law.  

YES IT IS:
Joh 14:15  If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments.
If you love God you will keep the Ten Commandment law of God.  The first four commandments speak of love for God.  The last six speak of love for your brother.  Really! It' just that simple.

Gal 3:19  Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Moses' law was added because people couldn't keep the Ten Commandments a covering for our sin, TILL the seed should come to whom the promise was made; (Wonder who that was)  and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator (Moses).

God bless,

kenrch

[kenrch]

Quote (david @ Feb. 17 2007,16:38)

First of all, I would like to ask . . . why the Sabbath was moved Although Christ was resurrected on the first day of the week (now called Sunday), the Bible contains no instruction to set aside that day of the week as sacred. “The retention of the old Pagan name of ‘Dies Solis,’ or ‘Sunday,’ for the weekly Christian festival, is, in great measure, owing to the union of Pagan and [so-called] Christian sentiment with which the first day of the week was recommended by Constantine [in an edict in 321 C.E.] to his subjects, Pagan and Christian alike, as the ‘venerable day of the Sun.’ . . . It was his mode of harmonizing the discordant religions of the Empire under one common institution.”—Lectures on the History of the Eastern Church (New York, 1871), A. P. Stanley, p. 291.

Thanks David leave it up to the JWs to point out the truth. However I don't know where scripture says Christs was resurrected on Sunday? The tomb was found empty as it was beginning to dawn towards the first day of the week.
Now if the catholics want to say that the tomb was found empty on the first day that's fine. But lets not twist scripture so it will lineup with our doctrine.

God bless,

Kenrch

[Cubes]

Hi and Welcome, Phoenix!

The Sabbath is the day that the Lord God blessed out of all the days and called holy.  That has not changed as far as I know.  

Admittedly, I do not celebrate to the extent that orthodox Jewish people do… in fact, quite too often, I have to work on weekends and I take it in the spirit that Jesus did.  But I do endeavor to slow down and rest, enjoy my loved ones including the Lord and if need be, I go to work because it's as Jesus going to the pool of Bethesda to help that lame man and so I do it in that spirit unto the Lord.  

I must say that I live near an orthodox Jewish community.  Being a gentile, my concept of the Sabbath is like night and day compared to the Jews.  So it was that one day needing to purchase some item for cooking, My family and I found ourselves driving on the Sabbath in this community.  It was something beautiful worth seeing, at least from the outside.

There, in the middle of busy 24/7 NY USA, was as if time stood still in the Garden of Eden or some paradise:  Everybody was dressed in their finest clothing, men strolling with their sweethearts on their arms, children of all ages playing even in the streets without fear, or the older kids hanging out chatting…,(because there were no cars being driven except for OURS which stood out like a sore thumb …but they were kind realizing that we must obviously be gentiles who knew no better!), and for a moment before we found our way out, we thought we caught a glimpse–however imperfectly–of what God had in mind when he commanded mankind to rest on the Sabbath: it was another world especially when you realize that most of us can't just stop to rest, OR let our children out to play and take it for granted that they'd be safe because of far too many people seeking to prey on children.  I broke a commandment and COVETED the freedom shown in their celebration of that Sabbath … and blessed the Lord that he is good!  

Of course, I also remembered an experience when a 90 year old Jewish atheist told me that as a young man, he gave up Judaism because he'd taken the trolley or such to visit his dear grandfather, who rather than appreciate his visit, was very upset that the young man had not walked but had a taken a ride in a vehicle for the trip.  The young man said later for God and declared himself an atheist for the rest of his life.  His only daughter, my friend, became a devout Buddhist.  At the end of his life, both his daughter and I were ministering to him… she was very desirous to win him over to Buddhism (I don't understand why if there is no God), … me, I encouraged him to remember his first love and the Lord used me to challenge his atheistic outlook on the creation… and comparing the things I shared with him to what his daughter shared about her faith, he actually ended up admitting that there is evidence for the existence of God after all and that this makes much more sense!  I pray he made his peace with his maker before exiting this world.

So there are two view points of the Sabbath.  I say Messiah came to show us that getting to visit grandpa by vehicle is ok because the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath…and that the visit was the point.  

[NickHassan]

Hi cubes,
Lovely words.
When the Lord of the Sabbath returns I believe he will show us how we must follow him in this regard.

[Phoenix]

Really interesting story Cubes. Thankyou

Hugs
Phoenix

[kenrch]

I believe when the Lord returns we will be in the Sabbath.  Six thousand years would have gone by, Satan would be bound up and we HIS children would be resting in HIS rest.  Some will return to Satan's ways of government simply because “it's better to reign in hell than serve in heaven” at least that is the way the rich will see it.  They like being top of the hill no matter how muddy it is!

Mat 19:24  And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

All he would have to do is repent.  But he own't!  He is invited, everyone is but he finds himself too busy.

Amen cubes, I asked a seventh day adventist why the apostles were picking corn on the Sabbath.  Didn't they know that the day before was the preparation day.  I haven't received a responce as yet.

Mat 12:1  At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

Mat 12:7  But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8  For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

The Sabbath is a delight not a burden.  If it is a burden then you are not keeping the Sabbath the way Jesus wants us too.
Much like if you tithe and hate to because you look at how much you are “loosing” then it would be better to keep your money God doesn't need it anyway.

[Phoenix]

You know… on friday I spent all day on here researching this forum and other forums and sites regarding the bible etc etc and so on and because of that I never got anything organised ie: groceries and washing done, so that I could rest on the sabbath. And when i think about it… that was my own fault for not having done this, therefore I think I would need to use my own Common Sense next time to make sure I am well prepared for the Sabbath. But because I ended up having to buy my food on the Sabbath due to not getting the groceries the day before I still dont feel bad because Jesus let his disciples pick corn on the Sabbath. Which to me shows that sometimes being so engrossed in getting to know our Father and Jesus himself can actually cause us to forget about the preparation which i think is the case of Jesus and his disciples. Our knowledge of God our Father and the new kingdom to come was far more important than preparing food of course!! lol

Which Jesus told one of the females that grizzled because the other female wasnt helping with preparing dinner or something.

So I think there are exceptions to the sabbath however it should still be acknowledged.

GBUA

Hugs
Phoenix

[david]

Quote

Oh so the Sabbath is only for God's people. Well I'm one of God's people I'm a spiritual Jew.

So, what kinds of stones do you prefer? I mean, if you break the sabbath? You do believe you are still under the law, don't you? (I'm just kidding of course. I would never do that.)

What does this scripture say, to you?

Col. 2:13-16:
: “[God] kindly forgave us all our trespasses and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us . . . Therefore let no man judge you in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath.”

Or these?

ROMANS 7:6
“But now we have been discharged from the Law, because we have died to that by which we were being held fast, that we might be slaves in a new sense by the spirit, and not in the old sense by the written code.”

EPHESIANS 2:15
“By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples in union with himself into one new man and make peace;”

COLOSSIANS 2:14
“and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us; and He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake.”

Quote

The Ten commandments are made for Israel only? So we gentiles can murder. David you won't murder in defence of your own country WHY?

Because love is the law's fulfillment. And if we love, we will not murder. When Jesus came, he didn't set down a lot of rules or commandments. He spoke in principles.
I see you keep stating things that I am about to state:

Quote

But LOVE is fulfillment of the Law.

So, what you are saying is that all these scriptures speak of “moses law” whereas the Sabbath is a part of “God's law”?

[david]

EPHESIANS 2:13-15
“But now in union with Christ Jesus YOU who were once far off have come to be near by the blood of the Christ. For he is our peace, he who made the two parties one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples in union with himself into one new man and make peace;”

COLOSSIANS 2:13-14
“Furthermore, though YOU were dead in YOUR trespasses and in the uncircumcised state of YOUR flesh, [God] made YOU alive together with him. He kindly forgave us all our trespasses and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us; and He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake.”

Law that was “abolished,” “blotted out,” taken “out of the way.” (Eph 2:13-15; Col 2:13, 14) Consequently, the whole system of Sabbaths, be they days or years, was brought to its end with the rest of the Law by the sacrifice of Christ Jesus. This explains why Christians can esteem “one day as all others,” whether it be a sabbath or any other day, with no fear of judgment by another. (Ro 14:4-6; Col 2:16)

Paul made the following expression concerning those scrupulously observing “days and months and seasons and years”: “I fear for you, that somehow I have toiled to no purpose respecting you.”—Ga 4:10, 11.

After Jesus’ death, his apostles at no time commanded Sabbath observance. The Sabbath was not included as a Christian requirement at Acts 15:28, 29, or later. Nor did they institute a new sabbath, a “day of the Lord.”

The weekly Sabbath was made an integral part of a system of sabbaths when the Law covenant was formally inaugurated at Mount Sinai a short time later. (Ex 19:1; 20:8-10; 24:5-8) This sabbatical system was composed of many types of sabbaths: the 7th day, the 7th year, the 50th year (Jubilee year), Nisan 14 (Passover), Nisan 15, Nisan 21, Sivan 6 (Pentecost), Ethanim 1, Ethanim 10 (Atonement Day), Ethanim 15, and Ethanim 22.
Which of these sabbaths do you observe? All of them? Which ones?

[kenrch]

“The weekly Sabbath was made an integral part of a system of sabbaths when the Law covenant was formally inaugurated at Mount Sinai a short time later. (Ex 19:1; 20:8-10; 24:5-8) This sabbatical system was composed of many types of sabbaths: the 7th day, the 7th year, the 50th year (Jubilee year), Nisan 14 (Passover), Nisan 15, Nisan 21, Sivan 6 (Pentecost), Ethanim 1, Ethanim 10 (Atonement Day), Ethanim 15, and Ethanim 22.
Which of these sabbaths do you observe? All of them? Which ones?”

Which Sabbaths have to do with feasts? Is it the seventh day weekly Sabbath? Which Sabbaths had to do with the sacrifice of animals and a scape goat? Those are the annual Sabbaths that Jesus fulfilled.

“After Jesus’ death, his apostles at no time commanded Sabbath observance. The Sabbath was not included as a Christian requirement at Acts 15:28, 29, or later. Nor did they institute a new sabbath, a “day of the Lord.”

Where in Acts does it say that we can commit murder, steel lie break the Sabbath.

Taken in context Acts 15 is speaking of the law of Moses.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

“Paul made the following expression concerning those scrupulously observing “days and months and seasons and years”: “I fear for you, that somehow I have toiled to no purpose respecting you.”—Ga 4:10, 11.

Which of the Ten commandments have to do with feasts, moons, seasons and years? These are days that deal with the sacrifice that Jesus fulfilled Luke 24:44.

“Law that was “abolished,” “blotted out,” taken “out of the way.” (Eph 2:13-15; Col 2:13, 14) Consequently, the whole system of Sabbaths, be they days or years, was brought to its end with the rest of the Law by the sacrifice of Christ Jesus. This explains why Christians can esteem “one day as all others,” whether it be a sabbath or any other day, with no fear of judgment by another. (Ro 14:4-6; Col 2:16)”

“Consequently, the whole system of Sabbaths, be they days or years, was brought to its end with the rest of the Law by the sacrifice of Christ Jesus”.

Where does scripture say this? Jesus' sacrifice permits us to murder? David you won't defend your own country. Why? According to what you are saying Jesus died so you could.

Col.2 deals with food, months etc. which have nothing to do with the law Jesus fulfilled Luke 24:44.

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

“weak in the faith ” Reminds me when Paul was speaking of eating food sacrificed to Idols. Those who are weak in faith or should I say ignorant that we have one God and Lord.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1Co 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

Rom. 14 deals with food and the feasts days that went with that food. Paul's writings are hard to understand. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Again taken in context Col 2 is speaking of Ordnances, Moses' law, the sacrifical law that Jesus fulfilled.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

“EPHESIANS 2:13-15
“But now in union with Christ Jesus YOU who were once far off have come to be near by the blood of the Christ. For he is our peace, he who made the two parties one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples in union with himself into one new man and make peace;”

Where is the blood of Christ mentioned in God's law? Oh yes the law of Moses was commanded to keep until the school master would come. It was added because know one could then and still can't keep the Ten Commandments that's why Jesus died so when we would break any of the Ten commandments we would be forgiven. If we are forgiven then we are in no violation of the law and therefore “establish the law” by keeping the law.

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Which of the Ten commandments are a curse? If kept the Ten Commandments are a blessing there would be no war just for starters. However Moses' law was a curse because of breaking the Law.

One thing I know there is no other Commandment that comes under such attack. You can say don't murder, lie, steel or any of the other nine Commandments but boy just you mention the fourth Commandment and see what happens. Why? What is so horrible about keeping one day in seven for God? Could it be because the Sabbath says that God is the creator resting on the seventh day? Do you think Satan likes people acknowledging that God is the creator. And when we keep HIS day that we acknowledge that HE is GOD.

Jesus' sacrifice did away with feasts days, moons and months, food, sacrifice and the annual Sabbaths not the Ten Commandment law written by God, in stone, placed in the ark, while Moses' law was placed on the side of the ark.

I H L,

Ken

[kenrch]

Quote (david @ Feb. 19 2007,08:27)

“So, what kinds of stones do you prefer? I mean, if you break the sabbath? You do believe you are still under the law, don't you? (I'm just kidding of course. I would never do that.)”

The kind that Jesus throws!

[Morning Star]

For Christians everyday is the Sabbath.

Hebrews 4
A Sabbath-Rest for the People of God
1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith.[a] 3Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
“So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.' “ And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. 4For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “And on the seventh day God rested from all his work.”[c] 5And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
6It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. 7Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”[d] 8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

[kenrch]

Quote (Morning Star @ Feb. 19 2007,14:22)

For Christians everyday is the Sabbath. Hebrews 4 A Sabbath-Rest for the People of God 1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith.[a] 3Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,   “So I declared on oath in my anger,   'They shall never enter my rest.' “ And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. 4For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “And on the seventh day God rested from all his work.”[c] 5And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.” 6It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. 7Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:   “Today, if you hear his voice,      do not harden your hearts.”[d] 8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience. 12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

I won't argue that's all what's left to argue. I have given scripture that say there is a separation of the law of God and the law of Moses. Which is why one minute Paul says GOD FORBID! and the next he is saying that the law is done away with. Peter had to set things straight 2Pet. 3:15-16.

I have said all I'm going to say. But don't worry you will still make it.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Again I H L,

Ken

[NickHassan]

Hi 94
You said in another thread
“Hi Nick:

Yes, true, I love God and strive to keep commandments and that includes keeping the Sabbath day. As I discussed with you in another thread I am not in bondage with this. God instuted the Sabbath day as a day of rest, and that to me is a good thing.

But since you are questioning my response to David relative to the scripture that Jesus has given us which I have quoted, Matthew 5:17-19, please give me your interpretation of what he means by this scripture.”
The NT is about the work of the Spirit among men from Pentecost till judgement. The Lord is the Spirit. The Spirit produces good fruit of righteous behaviours in the sons of God who are led by the Spirit. So the negative OT commandments given to the Jews are useful in defining bad fruit and sin but should not be our aim as the Spirit leads us higher to a positive reverse law of Love.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 22 2007,18:55)

Hi 94 You said in another thread “Hi Nick: Yes, true, I love God and strive to keep commandments and that includes keeping the Sabbath day.  As I discussed with you in another thread I am not in bondage with this.  God instuted the Sabbath day as a day of rest, and that to me is a good thing. But since you are questioning my response to David relative to the scripture that Jesus has given us which I have quoted, Matthew 5:17-19, please give me your interpretation of what he means by this scripture.” The NT is about the work of the Spirit among men from Pentecost till judgement. The Lord is the Spirit. The Spirit produces good fruit of righteous behaviours in the sons of God who are led by the Spirit. So the negative OT commandments given to the Jews are useful in defining bad fruit and sin but should not be our aim as the Spirit leads us higher to a positive reverse law of Love.

Hi Nick:

I have read all of this but what I am asking you is to give me your intepretation of what Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-19.

Thanks

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Matt 5
Context
'1And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:

2And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying, “

14-19

” 14Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

The light is that of the Spirit of Christ in us, who are in him, teaching and enabling us to follow him. That light shines forth in love to all that we do and that love produces good fruit.

The Law remains as a reminder of what God sees as sinful but now we do not just try and abide by them but let the Spirit work in us to produce good fruit in the will of God while not neglecting to check by the rules that the behaviours are of God.

That set of rules was life and death to the Jews but we are no longer in danger of condemnation by them as there is no condemnation for them that are in Christ Jesus but can still learn from them as they remain true, and we still sin.

[Author]

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