The statue of King Nebs dream

[2besee]

Quote (Devolution @ Feb. 10 2013,19:04)

Hi 2besee, THIS ONLY TAKES 10 MINUTES TO READ…I TIMED IT AT A CONVENIENT PACE!!   From the list of questions I gave you, I would like to start with the kingdom of Christ. We established that you believe that Christ is right now sitting on His throne of glory ruling over His kingdom from heaven. So I asked you to identify this kingdom Christ was ruling over, whether it was Israel, or, the whole world. You replied that the kingdom Christ has been ruling over all this time since crucifixion was indeed the whole world. And that when He returns, He will melt the heaven & earth & create a new earth wherein He will place His resurrected saints. All this taking place whilst Christ is still in the air with His saints, that is, the melting of the earth. And the unbelievers, which are heathens, on that day, will be no more. Thus you say, even now, the whole world is at this very moment is being ruled by Christ. I say to this, the scriptures disagree with you. In Zechariah 14, we see certain events being described & taking place on the day of The Lord, at His coming, events that lead up to a specific declaration which concerns world rule of which world you say Christ is right now ruling…however, regardless of what you say, scripture says differently which we shall soon see. Zechariah 14:1 >Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. Verse 1 is the warning, behold, the day of The Lord is coming. Notice this warning comes with a further warning, an explicit singling out: “and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee”….WHOSE spoil? Who is this extended warning explicitly directed at? THY spoil? Who is THY? 2 >For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Here we see that before that day of The Lord comes, that all nations will gather against Jerusalem & take her. Notice the houses in Jerusalem are “rifled”, this means ransacked. That means that treasures, which are valuables, are being taken from those houses…those houses of Jerusalem's!! That is otherwise known as the SPOILS of war. So verse 1, the explicit & extended warning concerning being SPOILED was being directed at…ISRAEL. Israel whose inhabitants have their houses RIFLED during that attack. HER spoil (treasures/valuables) being gathered in her midst by her conquerors. All this BEFORE the DAY of The Lord…before Christ appears in the clouds. But how long before Christ's actual coming does this attack take place? 3 >Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. No specific time line here except that “it” (Christ's 2nd coming) will only take place “then”…that is, AFTER Israel gets conquered by the will of ALL NATIONS. We read on 4 >And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 >And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Now i could be deceptive here and say “See, the world is NOT MELTED whilst Christ is in the CLOUDS, because Jesus STANDS on the very UNMELTED Mount of Olives which He STANDS on taking place AFTER His coming in the clouds”…and your rendering of the MELTING of the earth taking place from the CLOUDS would be DEBUNKED. Luckily for you, I am not deceptive. Because Christ does NOT physically STAND on the Mount in this disguised & purposely misleading prophecy at this point of cleaving. How do I know? I will show you…Notice that AFTER Christ has the Mount of Olives cleaved open, His people begin to flee through the valley created…so they are NOT being taken into the clouds to meet Christ, but are instead FLEEING through this violently created valley… Then notice what is said to happen whilst those Israelites are FLEEING…”and the LORD my God SHALL COME, and all the saints with thee. So if Christ COMES when they are FLEEING…WHO just CLEAVED the Mount of Olives? Because as we just read, Christ does NOT appear with His saints at His 2nd coming UNTIL those Israelites are FLEEING through that valley!! Otherwise, Christ's 2nd coming would actually be His 3rd coming because He was just “standing” on the Mount of Olives even BEFORE He came in the clouds!! So “Christ standing” on Mount Olive has another meaning here, but this is not needing explaining in this debate & your MELTED EARTH taking place at His coming in the clouds analyses has not yet been DEBUNKED. So we read on… 6 >And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: As we just read, in “that day”, “that day” when the Israelites are FLEEING through that violently created valley, Christ & His saints will COME. So on “that very day” when they are FLEEING, the LIGHT shall not be clear NOR dark…so it is GREY…like the “grey” before dawn or before dusk…that is, late evening or early morning. This event is happening ON THAT DAY…the DAY of the 2nd COMING!! The 2nd coming takes place when those Israelites are FLEEING through that valley. But another question arises here…WHEN does this FLEEING take place? BEFORE or DURING the attack on Israel when she gets CONQUERED & SPOILED…OR…some time AFTER that defeat? That 2besee, will have to WAIT for my next DEBUNKING of your analyses, because here cometh the DEBUNKING that Christ is right NOW ruling planet earth…that this world in which we live today is being ruled by Christ since His ascension as stated by YOU… 7 >But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. Here is the 2nd coming…it will occur ONE DAY KNOWN TO THE LORD (sound familiar) and this ONE DAY will be taking place during the EVENING…SOME FUTURE UNKNOWN DAY taking place during SOME UNKNOWN EVENING yet to come…meaning THAT DAY of The Lord…THAT 2nd COMING. And on THAT DAY of the 2nd coming, this will happen: 8 >And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. So on THAT DAY, LIVING WATERS shall go out FROM Jerusalem, and these WATERS will be ON THAT DAY accomplishing something that takes place BETWEEN TWO SEAS!! Hmmmmmm….. And in SUMMER & in WINTER shall it be!! Hmmmmmm… What could that mean? Hmmmmmm… No talk of the whole world here…just a very vauge & LOCALISED EVENT taking place at the COMING concerning LIVING WATERS “flowing” OUT of Jerusalem BETWEEN TWO SEAS!! Hmmmmmm…. Notice there was NO talk of MELTING the earth here either? Just a SPREADING FORTH of LIVING WATERS taking place between TWO very UNMELTED SEAS occurring AGTER Christ has already COME!! Hmmmmmm… But lets leave this mystery for now, for we still don't have solid confirmation within those verses (solid enough for some but not for others) to debunk your MELTING analyses taking place at the coming whilst still in the CLOUDS on that same ONE day. Thus we are forced to continue & your earth being MELTED whilst Christ is in the clouds still stands for now… However, that being said, here below we find our FIRST clear CONTRADICTION in scripture AGAINST what YOU declared: “That Christ has already been RULING the world SINCE His ascension…Sitting on His throne of glory ruling His world KINGDOM from HEAVEN. 9 >And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. “AND THE LORD SHALL BE KING OVER ALL THE EARTH”… WHEN The Lord becomes KING over ALL THE EARTH… “Shall be King”…SHALL…meaning…WILL…meaning NOT YET…BUT WILL…SHALL BE KING… “IN THAT DAY” In THAT DAY WHEN Jesus BECOMES KING OF THE WHOLE WORLD…IN “THAT DAY” when those ISRAELITES WERE FLEEING, where it was NEITHER LIGHT NOR DARK, in “THAT SAME DAY” when Christ & His saints COME when THOSE ISRAELITES are FLEEING when it is neither LIGHT NOR DARK BUT AT EVENING…in “THAT VERY SAME DAY” The LORD BECOMES KING OF THE WHOLE WORLD!! Because in THAT SAME DAY Jesus becomes KING OF THE WHOLE WORLD: “SHALL THERE BE ONE LORD, AND HIS NAME ONE”. THAT DAY of His COMING, that SAME DAY that the Mount of Olives was CLEAVED on that SAME DAY Israelites were FLEEING through that created VALLEY being the SAME DAY where it was NEITHER LIGHT NOR DARK happening on the SAME DAY that CHRIST AND HIS SAINTS COME when those Israelites were FLEEING during the EVENING…on that very SAME DAY we read that the WORLD will finally be under ONE LORD…JESUS THE CHRIST who on THAT DAY becomes KING OF THE WHOLE WORLD…THAT DAY…ONE LORD…ONE KING…Jesus the Christ!!… ON THAT DAY! THAT SAME DAY OF HIS COMING WHERE ALL THOSE EVENTS TOOK PLACE 2besee…. THAT DAY!! Which ONLY means that Jesus is NOT RIGHT NOW RULING THE WHOLE WORLD which means that SATANS KINGDOM HAS NOT YET ENDED which means that there is CURRENTLY MORE than ONE LORD RULING THE WORLD RIGHT NOW which goes AGAINST YOUR ANALYSES and YOUR statement that Christ is right NOW RULING THIS WORLD & has been RULING since ascension… THAT OPINION has JUST been… DEBUNKED. One down. To be continued…

Hi Devo.

You insist that Zechariah 14 supports your dispensationilist view.

Well I disagree — partly because so many other scriptures disprove your theory, and nothing that you speak about appears in the new testament!

Now here is a problem for you.

Some translations, including the KJV, translate Zechariah 14:1 as “The day of the Lord” when it should be translated as “A day of the Lord”. 

Zechariah 14:1:

yō·wm-
יֽוֹם־
A day

That can be verified at this bible study link:

http://biblos.com/zechariah/14-1.htm

“A day of the Lord” in the old testement usually applies to some historical event in history.

Where in Malachi 4:1 – the verse that I believe speaks about the coming DAY of the Lord, as described in the new testament, instead uses the Hebrew word “hay·yō·wm” which means THE DAY comes burning like an oven.

hay·yō·wm
הַיּוֹם֙
the day

That can also be verified at the following bible study link:

http://biblos.com/malachi/4-1.htm

Malachi 4:1

[1]

“For behold, the day comes, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble; the day that comes shall burn them up, says the LORD of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.

[2] But for you who fear my name the sun of righteousness shall rise (WHO IS THE SUN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS DEVO), with healing in its wings. You shall go forth leaping like calves from the stall.
[3] And you shall tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act, says the LORD of hosts.
[4]

“Remember the law of my servant Moses, the statutes and ordinances that I commanded him at Horeb for all Israel.

[5]

“Behold, I will send you Eli'jah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the LORD comes.

—————————-

There is only one “Day of the Lord” — it is a future day when Jesus will return, and this “day of the Lord” which is seen in Malachi 4:1 goes with 2nd Peter 3.

Zechariah 14 does NOT go with 2nd Peter 3.

There are other “days of the Lord” mentioned that are not referring to the ACTUAL “Days of the Lord in which the heavens will melt in the fervent heat….etc.”  — other “days of the Lord” that were applied to the events of their day in ancient history.

Zechariah 14 makes no mention of the destruction and burning up of the earth, while 2 Peter 3 clearly does. Also, Zechariah 14 contains a mixture of figurative and literal language just as the rest of the book does. 2nd Peter 3, on the other hand,does not — it is completely straightforward and literal.

Clearly not the same Day, Devo.

What can you prove to do with the coming day of the Lord that is in the new testament Devo, without the old testament? Can you prove anything?

Then show me.

[2besee]

Quote

What can you prove to do with the coming day of the Lord that is in the new testament Devo, without the old testament? Can you prove anything? Then show me.

Hi Devo,

Regarding my question here, that does not include the book of Revelations which as we know is open to any interpretation.

The rest of the NT, Devo..

[2besee]

I plan to go over Zechariah 14 soon, properly.

[2besee]

Devo, see this is the problem, no prophecy of scripture is open to any private interpretation. EVERYTHING THAT YOU NEED IS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT REGARDING THE FUTURE TO COME and if there is anything in the OT regarding the future to come for us, then GOD will show us. God will point us to verses and show us. We should not be trying to figure out prophecies as if only our minds can work it out.

I have already explained to you that I do believe that there could possibly be a coming antichrist or should I say man of sin who puts himself in the temple of God making out that he is god. Now i believe that the man of sin will put himself in any mans body which is the temple and I do believe that that time has come. I believe that we are living in this deceptive time NOW. We are in a time of limbo, we are in a time of huge deception. It is a time when even the elect could be deceived. If you cannot feel it, then you are possibly being deceived already. The time has come, but who knows It? Are you all half asleep? Or are you awake?

And if there is an actual man ALSO who puts his seat in Jerusalem, DEVO, you, Wakeup, and Journey, and all others who believe as you do, may think that the deceiver is the Lord, come to gather his elect (who you believe are the Jews) and bring them to Jerusalem. Have you ever ever considered that? Devo, when you are being deceived you do not KNOW that you are being deceived.

LOOK WHAT THE EARLIEST CHURCH BELIEVED:

Second or third century.

Antichrist would first seize the empires of the East; he would have Jerusalem as his seat and imperial Capital. Both the city and its temple were to be rebuilt by him. His persecution would require the denial of Christ's divinity (he himself pretending to be Christ) and would by law impose circumcision on all. Finally, Nero himself was to perish at the hands of Antichrist. In this way, the whole world and its peoples would be brought under his yoke, until, at Christ's coming, the impious imposter would be overcome.” (Sulpicius Severus)

“For when he is come, and of his own accord concentrates in his own person the apostasy, and accomplishes whatever he shall do according to his own will and choice, sitting also in the Temple of God so that his dupes may adore him as the Christ…” (St. Irenaeus)

“Antichrist will rule the world from Jerusalem, which he will make into a magnificent city.” (St. Anselm)

“This impious man … will give orders that he himself shall be worshipped as God. For he will say he is Christ, though he will be His enemy. That he may be believed he will receive the power of doing wonders, so that fire may descend from heaven, the sun retire from its course and the image which he shall have set up may speak.” (Lactantius)

“But he who reads this passage, even half asleep, cannot fail to see that the kingdom of the Antichrist shall fiercely, though for a short time, assail the Church before the Last Judgment of God has introduced the eternal reign of saints. For it is patent from the context that the time, times, and half a time, means a year, and two years, and half a year, that is to say, three years and a half. Sometimes in Scripture the same thing is indicated by months. For though the word times seems to be used here in Latin in an indefinite manner, that is so only because the Latins have no dual, as the Greeks have, and as the Hebrews also are said to have. Times, therefore, is used for two times. It is a familiar theme in the conversations and hearts of the faithful, that in the last days before the Judgment, the Jews shall believe in the true Christ, that is, our Christ, thanks to this great and admirable prophet Elias who shall expound the Law to them. For not without reason do we hope that before the coming of our Judge and Saviour Elias shall come, because we have good reason to believe that he is now alive; for as Scripture most distinctly informs us, he was taken up from this earth in a chariot of fire. When therefore, he is come, he shall give a spiritual explanation of the Law which the Jews at present understand carnally ” (St. Augustine)

“Antichrist, the son of perdition will be born in Corozain, will be brought up in Bethsaida and shall begin to reign in Capharnaum, according to what Our Lord Jesus said in the Gospel: “Woe to thee Corozain … woe to thee Bethsaida … and thou Capharnaum that art exalted up to heaven, thou shalt be thrust down to hell. (Luke, 10:13) Antichrist shall work a thousand prodigies on earth. He will make the blind see, the deaf hear, the lame walk, the dead rise, so that even the Elect, if possible, shall be deceived by his magical arts. Puffed up with pride, Antichrist shall enter in triumph the city of Jerusalem and will sit on a throne in the Temple to be adored as if he were the Son of God. His heart being intoxicated with arrogance, he will forget his being a mere man, and the son of a woman of the tribe of Dan.” (St. Zenobius)

“Antichrist will be born near Babylon. He will win the support of many with gifts and money. He will sell himself to the devil and thereafter will have no guardian angel or conscience.” (St. Jerome)

“He shall sit in the Temple of God as if he were Christ, and leading astray those who worship him.” (St. Irenaeus)

“But many who are hearers of Holy Scripture and have it in their hands, and keep it in mind with understanding, will escape his imposture. For they will see clearly through his insidious appearance and his deceitful imposture, and will flee from his hands and betake themselves to the mountains, and hide in the caves of the earth; and they will seek after the Friend of man with tears and a contrite heart: and He will deliver them out of his toils, and with His right hand He will save those from his snares who make their supplication to Him in a worthy and righteous manner.” (St. Hippolytus)

“By means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist it is shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God; and that although a mere slave, he wishes to be proclaimed as a king. For he being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, not as a legitimate king obedient to God but as an impious, unjust, and lawless one; as an iniquitous and murderous apostate; as a robber, concentrating in himself a satanic apostasy, and setting aside idols to persuade men that he himself is God.” (St. Irenaeus)

“Antichrist will be born of Jewish parents, of the tribe of Dan, but his mother will not be a virgin, as many believe. As the Holy Ghost came into the heart of Mary, so will the devil enter into the mother of Antichrist, and his diabolical power will always support him. Babylon will be his birthplace, but he will be reared and instructed in Bethsaida and Corozain. After his education at the hands of malignant spirits he will go to Jerusalem and place his seat in the Temple which he will have restored. He will submit to the rite of circumcision, claiming that he is the Son of the Omnipotent God. His first converts will be kings and princes. His influence will extend from sea to sea, largely through force and persuasive eloquence. He will perform many signs and great miracles. (Adso the Monk, 10th Century)

“Then the Son of God, Our Lord Jesus Christ, shall come in person. He shall appear on the clouds of heaven surrounded by legions of angels; and, shining with glory, He will put to death Antichrist, the Beast, the Enemy, the Seducer, and all his followers. This shall be the end of time and the beginning of the general judgment.” (St. Zenobius)

“Antichrist will heal the sick, raise the dead, restore sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, speech to the dumb, raises storms and calms them, re-names mountains, make trees blossom and wither at a word, re-build the temple of Jerusalem, and make Jerusalem the capital city of the world with the vast wealth of hidden treasures.” (Rabanus Maurus, private)

“Dan, Moses said, is a lion's whelp; and in naming the
tribe of Dan he declared clearly the tribe from which Antichrist is destined to spring.” (St. Hippolytus)

“He will call together the whole people to himself, out of every country of the Dispersion, making them his own, as though they were his own children, and promising to restore their country and establish again their kingdom and nation, in order that he may be worshipped by them as God.” (St. Hippolytus)

“Christ arose from among the Hebrews, and he (Antichrist) will spring from among the Jews. Christ showed His flesh as a Temple, and raised it up on the third day; and he, too, will raise up again the Temple of stone in Jerusalem.” (St. Hippolytus)

“In every respect that Deceiver seeks to make himself appear like the Son of God. Christ is king of things celestial and terrestrial, and Antichrist will be king upon earth. The Saviour sent the Apostles unto all the nations, and he, in like manner will send false apostles. Christ gathered together the dispersed sheep, and he in like manner will gather together the dispersed people of the Hebrews. Christ appeared in the form of man, and he in like manner will come forth in the form of man.” (Hippolytus)

“And the churches, too will wail with a mighty lamentation, because neither oblation nor incense is attended to, nor a service acceptable to God; but the sanctuaries of the churches will become like a garden-watcher's hut, and the Holy Body and Blood of Christ will not be shown in those days. The public service of God shall be extinguished, psalmody shall cease, the reading of Scripture shall not be heard; but for men there shall be darkness and lamentation on lamentation, and woe on woe.

At that time silver and gold shall be cast out in the streets, and none shall gather them; but all things shall be held an offence. For all shall be eager to escape and to hide and they shall not be able anywhere to find shelter from the woes of the Enemy; but as they carry his mark about them, they shall be readily recognised and declared to be his. There shall be fear outside, and trembling inside both by night and by day. In the streets and in the houses there the dead shall lie; in the streets and in the houses there shall hunger and thirst be; in the streets there shall be tumults, and in the houses lamentations. And beauty of countenance shall be withered, for their forms shall be like those of the dead; and the beauty of women shall fade, and the desire of all men shall vanish.

But in spite of all this, not even then will the merciful and benignant God leave the race of men without some comfort; He will shorten even those days to the period of three years and a half, and He will curtail those times on account of the remnant of those who hide in the mountains and caves, that the phalanx of all those saints fail not utterly. But these days shall run their course rapidly; and the kingdom of the Deceiver and Antichrist shall be promptly removed. And then, finally, in the twinkling of an eye shall the fashion of this world pass away, and the power of men shall be brought to naught, and all visible things shall be destroyed.” (St. Hippolytus)

http://www.marianland.com/antichrist/antichrist001.html

[Wakeup]

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,18:30)

Devo, see this is the problem, no prophecy of scripture is open to any private interpretation. EVERYTHING THAT YOU NEED IS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT REGARDING THE FUTURE TO COME and if there is anything in the OT regarding the future to come for us, then GOD will show us. God will point us to verses and show us. We should not be trying to figure out prophecies as if only our minds can work it out. I have already explained to you that I do believe that there could possibly be a coming antichrist or should I say man of sin who puts himself in the temple of God making out that he is god. Now i believe that the man of sin will put himself in any mans body which is the temple and I do believe that that time has come. I believe that we are living in this deceptive time NOW. We are in a time of limbo, we are in a time of huge deception. It is a time when even the elect could be deceived. If you cannot feel it, then you are possibly being deceived already. The time has come, but who knows It? Are you all half asleep? Or are you awake? And if there is an actual man ALSO who puts his seat in Jerusalem, DEVO, you, Wakeup, and Journey, and all others who believe as you do, may think that the deceiver is the Lord, come to gather his elect (who you believe are the Jews) and bring them to Jerusalem. Have you ever ever considered that? Devo, when you are being deceived you do not KNOW that you are being deceived. LOOK WHAT THE EARLIEST CHURCH BELIEVED: Second or third century. Antichrist would first seize the empires of the East; he would have Jerusalem as his seat and imperial Capital. Both the city and its temple were to be rebuilt by him. His persecution would require the denial of Christ's divinity (he himself pretending to be Christ) and would by law impose circumcision on all. Finally, Nero himself was to perish at the hands of Antichrist. In this way, the whole world and its peoples would be brought under his yoke, until, at Christ's coming, the impious imposter would be overcome.” (Sulpicius Severus) “For when he is come, and of his own accord concentrates in his own person the apostasy, and accomplishes whatever he shall do according to his own will and choice, sitting also in the Temple of God so that his dupes may adore him as the Christ…” (St. Irenaeus) “Antichrist will rule the world from Jerusalem, which he will make into a magnificent city.” (St. Anselm) “This impious man … will give orders that he himself shall be worshipped as God. For he will say he is Christ, though he will be His enemy. That he may be believed he will receive the power of doing wonders, so that fire may descend from heaven, the sun retire from its course and the image which he shall have set up may speak.” (Lactantius) “But he who reads this passage, even half asleep, cannot fail to see that the kingdom of the Antichrist shall fiercely, though for a short time, assail the Church before the Last Judgment of God has introduced the eternal reign of saints. For it is patent from the context that the time, times, and half a time, means a year, and two years, and half a year, that is to say, three years and a half. Sometimes in Scripture the same thing is indicated by months. For though the word times seems to be used here in Latin in an indefinite manner, that is so only because the Latins have no dual, as the Greeks have, and as the Hebrews also are said to have. Times, therefore, is used for two times. It is a familiar theme in the conversations and hearts of the faithful, that in the last days before the Judgment, the Jews shall believe in the true Christ, that is, our Christ, thanks to this great and admirable prophet Elias who shall expound the Law to them. For not without reason do we hope that before the coming of our Judge and Saviour Elias shall come, because we have good reason to believe that he is now alive; for as Scripture most distinctly informs us, he was taken up from this earth in a chariot of fire. When therefore, he is come, he shall give a spiritual explanation of the Law which the Jews at present understand carnally ” (St. Augustine) “Antichrist, the son of perdition will be born in Corozain, will be brought up in Bethsaida and shall begin to reign in Capharnaum, according to what Our Lord Jesus said in the Gospel: “Woe to thee Corozain … woe to thee Bethsaida … and thou Capharnaum that art exalted up to heaven, thou shalt be thrust down to hell. (Luke, 10:13) Antichrist shall work a thousand prodigies on earth. He will make the blind see, the deaf hear, the lame walk, the dead rise, so that even the Elect, if possible, shall be deceived by his magical arts. Puffed up with pride, Antichrist shall enter in triumph the city of Jerusalem and will sit on a throne in the Temple to be adored as if he were the Son of God. His heart being intoxicated with arrogance, he will forget his being a mere man, and the son of a woman of the tribe of Dan.” (St. Zenobius) “Antichrist will be born near Babylon. He will win the support of many with gifts and money. He will sell himself to the devil and thereafter will have no guardian angel or conscience.” (St. Jerome) “He shall sit in the Temple of God as if he were Christ, and leading astray those who worship him.” (St. Irenaeus) “But many who are hearers of Holy Scripture and have it in their hands, and keep it in mind with understanding, will escape his imposture. For they will see clearly through his insidious appearance and his deceitful imposture, and will flee from his hands and betake themselves to the mountains, and hide in the caves of the earth; and they will seek after the Friend of man with tears and a contrite heart: and He will deliver them out of his toils, and with His right hand He will save those from his snares who make their supplication to Him in a worthy and righteous manner.” (St. Hippolytus) “By means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist it is shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God; and that although a mere slave, he wishes to be proclaimed as a king. For he being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, not as a legitimate king obedient to God but as an impious, unjust, and lawless one; as an iniquitous and murderous apostate; as a robber, concentrating in himself a satanic apostasy, and setting aside idols to persuade men that he himself is God.” (St. Irenaeus) “Antichrist will be born of Jewish parents, of the tribe of Dan, but his mother will not be a virgin, as many believe. As the Holy Ghost came into the heart of Mary, so will the devil enter into the mother of Antichrist, and his diabolical power will always support him. Babylon will be his birthplace, but he will be reared and instructed in Bethsaida and Corozain. After his education at the hands of malignant spirits he will go to Jerusalem and place his seat in the Temple which he will have restored. He will submit to the rite of circumcision, claiming that he is the Son of the Omnipotent God. His first converts will be kings and princes. His influence will extend from sea to sea, largely through force and persuasive eloquence. He will perform many signs and great miracles. (Adso the Monk, 10th Century) “Then the Son of God, Our Lord Jesus Christ, shall come in person. He shall appear on the clouds of heaven surrounded by legions of angels; and, shining with glory, He will put to death Antichrist, the Beast, the Enemy, the Seducer, and all his followers. This shall be the end of time and the beginning of the general judgment.” (St. Zenobius) “Antichrist will heal the sick, raise the dead, restore sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, speech to the dumb, raises storms and calms them, re-names mountains, make trees blossom and wither at a word, re-build the temple of Jerusalem, and make Jerusalem the capital city of the world with the vast wealth of hidden treasures.” (Rabanus Maurus, private) “Dan, Moses said, is a lion's whelp; and in naming the tribe of Dan he declared clearly the tribe from which Antichrist is destined to spring.” (St. Hippolytus) “He will call together the whole people to himself, out of every country of the Dispersion, making them his own, as though they were his own children, and promising to restore their country and establish again their kingdom and nation, in order that he may be worshipped by them as God.” (St. Hippolytus) “Christ arose from among the Hebrews, and he (Antichrist) will spring from among the Jews. Christ showed His flesh as a Temple, and raised it up on the third day; and he, too, will raise up again the Temple of stone in Jerusalem.” (St. Hippolytus) “In every respect that Deceiver seeks to make himself appear like the Son of God. Christ is king of things celestial and terrestrial, and Antichrist will be king upon earth. The Saviour sent the Apostles unto all the nations, and he, in like manner will send false apostles. Christ gathered together the dispersed sheep, and he in like manner will gather together the dispersed people of the Hebrews. Christ appeared in the form of man, and he in like manner will come forth in the form of man.” (Hippolytus) “And the churches, too will wail with a mighty lamentation, because neither oblation nor incense is attended to, nor a service acceptable to God; but the sanctuaries of the churches will become like a garden-watcher's hut, and the Holy Body and Blood of Christ will not be shown in those days. The public service of God shall be extinguished, psalmody shall cease, the reading of Scripture shall not be heard; but for men there shall be darkness and lamentation on lamentation, and woe on woe. At that time silver and gold shall be cast out in the streets, and none shall gather them; but all things shall be held an offence. For all shall be eager to escape and to hide and they shall not be able anywhere to find shelter from the woes of the Enemy; but as they carry his mark about them, they shall be readily recognised and declared to be his. There shall be fear outside, and trembling inside both by night and by day. In the streets and in the houses there the dead shall lie; in the streets and in the houses there shall hunger and thirst be; in the streets there shall be tumults, and in the houses lamentations. And beauty of countenance shall be withered, for their forms shall be like those of the dead; and the beauty of women shall fade, and the desire of all men shall vanish. But in spite of all this, not even then will the merciful and benignant God leave the race of men without some comfort; He will shorten even those days to the period of three years and a half, and He will curtail those times on account of the remnant of those who hide in the mountains and caves, that the phalanx of all those saints fail not utterly. But these days shall run their course rapidly; and the kingdom of the Deceiver and Antichrist shall be promptly removed. And then, finally, in the twinkling of an eye shall the fashion of this world pass away, and the power of men shall be brought to naught, and all visible things shall be destroyed.” (St. Hippolytus) http://www.marianland.com/antichrist/antichrist001.html

2Besee.
I will leave this to Devo,but what book are you reading?

wakeup.

[2besee]

Wakeup,
This is what the earliest church believed regarding the antichrist.

It seems that what you are teaching is the opposite of what they believed (again), and instead you are supporting the coming earthly kingdom of this antichrist (according to the earliest church writings).

The antichrist, they believed, would restore the earthly kingdom of Jerusalem.
The antichrist would reign from the restored Jerusalem.
The antichrist would regather the Hebrews.

This is what you are teaching, is it not?

Also, notice what they said regarding Jesus return, quote, “And then, finally, in the twinkling of an eye shall the fashion of this world pass away, and the power of men shall be brought to naught, and all visible things shall be destroyed.”

Which is exactly what i was saying.

Read these key points carefully: (quotes of the early church):

“He would have Jerusalem as his seat and imperial Capital. Both the city and its temple were to be rebuilt by him.

(He himself pretending to be Christ)

Sitting also in the Temple of God so that his dupes may adore him as the Christ.

“Antichrist will rule the world from Jerusalem, which he will make into a magnificent city.”

This impious man will give orders that he himself shall be worshipped as God. For he will say he is Christ.

That he may be believed he will receive the power of doing wonders, so that fire may descend from heaven, the sun retire from its course.

But he who reads this passage, even half asleep, cannot fail to see that the kingdom of the Antichrist shall fiercely, though for a short time, assail the Church before the Last Judgment of God has introduced the eternal reign of saints.

Antichrist shall work a thousand prodigies on earth. He will make the blind see, the deaf hear, the lame walk, the dead rise, so that even the Elect, if possible, shall be deceived by his magical arts.

Puffed up with pride, Antichrist shall enter in triumph the city of Jerusalem and will sit on a throne in the Temple to be adored as if he were the Son of God.

“He shall sit in the Temple of God as if he were Christ, and leading astray those who worship him.”

After his education at the hands of malignant spirits he will go to Jerusalem and place his seat in the Temple which he will have restored.

His influence will extend from sea to sea, largely through force and persuasive eloquence. He will perform many signs and great miracles.

“Then the Son of God, Our Lord Jesus Christ, shall come in person. He shall appear on the clouds of heaven surrounded by legions of angels; and, shining with glory, He will put to death Antichrist, the Beast, the Enemy, the Seducer, and all his followers. This shall be the end of time and the beginning of the general judgment.”

“Antichrist will heal the sick, raise the dead, restore sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, speech to the dumb, raises storms and calms them, re-names mountains, make trees blossom and wither at a word, re-build the temple of Jerusalem, and make Jerusalem the capital city of the world with the vast wealth of hidden treasures.”

“He will call together the whole people to himself, out of every country of the Dispersion, making them his own, as though they were his own children, and promising to restore their country and establish again their kingdom and nation, in order that he may be worshipped by them as God.”

Christ showed His flesh as a Temple, and raised it up on the third day; and he, too, will raise up again the Temple of stone in Jerusalem.”

“In every respect that Deceiver seeks to make himself appear like the Son of God. Christ is king of things celestial and terrestrial, and Antichrist will be king upon earth.

The Saviour sent the Apostles unto all the nations, and he, in like manner will send false apostles.

Christ gathered together the dispersed sheep, and he in like manner will gather together the dispersed people of the Hebrews.

And then, finally, in the twinkling of an eye shall the fashion of this world pass away, and the power of men shall be brought to naught, and all visible things shall be destroyed.”

————-

Can you see the connection in what you are believing and teaching?

[2besee]

Wakeup,

All of those quotes from the earliest church believed just as i am saying. Isn't that odd.

———————

They believed as I did – that this false Christ would come, and I never read their writings before then, I only heard what I did from some Adventist friends that there would be a false Jesus, and it is then that I went to the Lord and prayed and asked, and God showed me in vision what was to come.

There would be no need to wonder if it is his return or if it is not his return for when his return comes, all will pass away. It will be the end.

Not some temporary kingdom.
Not some man on a throne in Jerusalem,
nothing.
the end would be the end.

And only afterward did I see the same thing in the NT, everything fitted into place.

(and I am only telling you a part).

You can believe whatever you want to believe.
i will stick with what i know.

It is simple.

And it has agreement in the Disciples and in Christ.

[Devolution]

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,15:44)

Quote (Devolution @ Feb. 10 2013,19:04) Hi 2besee, THIS ONLY TAKES 10 MINUTES TO READ…I TIMED IT AT A CONVENIENT PACE!!   From the list of questions I gave you, I would like to start with the kingdom of Christ. We established that you believe that Christ is right now sitting on His throne of glory ruling over His kingdom from heaven. So I asked you to identify this kingdom Christ was ruling over, whether it was Israel, or, the whole world. You replied that the kingdom Christ has been ruling over all this time since crucifixion was indeed the whole world. And that when He returns, He will melt the heaven & earth & create a new earth wherein He will place His resurrected saints. All this taking place whilst Christ is still in the air with His saints, that is, the melting of the earth. And the unbelievers, which are heathens, on that day, will be no more. Thus you say, even now, the whole world is at this very moment is being ruled by Christ. I say to this, the scriptures disagree with you. In Zechariah 14, we see certain events being described & taking place on the day of The Lord, at His coming, events that lead up to a specific declaration which concerns world rule of which world you say Christ is right now ruling…however, regardless of what you say, scripture says differently which we shall soon see. Zechariah 14:1 >Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. Verse 1 is the warning, behold, the day of The Lord is coming. Notice this warning comes with a further warning, an explicit singling out: “and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee”….WHOSE spoil? Who is this extended warning explicitly directed at? THY spoil? Who is THY? 2 >For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Here we see that before that day of The Lord comes, that all nations will gather against Jerusalem & take her. Notice the houses in Jerusalem are “rifled”, this means ransacked. That means that treasures, which are valuables, are being taken from those houses…those houses of Jerusalem's!! That is otherwise known as the SPOILS of war. So verse 1, the explicit & extended warning concerning being SPOILED was being directed at…ISRAEL. Israel whose inhabitants have their houses RIFLED during that attack. HER spoil (treasures/valuables) being gathered in her midst by her conquerors. All this BEFORE the DAY of The Lord…before Christ appears in the clouds. But how long before Christ's actual coming does this attack take place? 3 >Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. No specific time line here except that “it” (Christ's 2nd coming) will only take place “then”…that is, AFTER Israel gets conquered by the will of ALL NATIONS. We read on 4 >And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 >And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Now i could be deceptive here and say “See, the world is NOT MELTED whilst Christ is in the CLOUDS, because Jesus STANDS on the very UNMELTED Mount of Olives which He STANDS on taking place AFTER His coming in the clouds”…and your rendering of the MELTING of the earth taking place from the CLOUDS would be DEBUNKED. Luckily for you, I am not deceptive. Because Christ does NOT physically STAND on the Mount in this disguised & purposely misleading prophecy at this point of cleaving. How do I know? I will show you…Notice that AFTER Christ has the Mount of Olives cleaved open, His people begin to flee through the valley created…so they are NOT being taken into the clouds to meet Christ, but are instead FLEEING through this violently created valley… Then notice what is said to happen whilst those Israelites are FLEEING…”and the LORD my God SHALL COME, and all the saints with thee. So if Christ COMES when they are FLEEING…WHO just CLEAVED the Mount of Olives? Because as we just read, Christ does NOT appear with His saints at His 2nd coming UNTIL those Israelites are FLEEING through that valley!! Otherwise, Christ's 2nd coming would actually be His 3rd coming because He was just “standing” on the Mount of Olives even BEFORE He came in the clouds!! So “Christ standing” on Mount Olive has another meaning here, but this is not needing explaining in this debate & your MELTED EARTH taking place at His coming in the clouds analyses has not yet been DEBUNKED. So we read on… 6 >And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: As we just read, in “that day”, “that day” when the Israelites are FLEEING through that violently created valley, Christ & His saints will COME. So on “that very day” when they are FLEEING, the LIGHT shall not be clear NOR dark…so it is GREY…like the “grey” before dawn or before dusk…that is, late evening or early morning. This event is happening ON THAT DAY…the DAY of the 2nd COMING!! The 2nd coming takes place when those Israelites are FLEEING through that valley. But another question arises here…WHEN does this FLEEING take place? BEFORE or DURING the attack on Israel when she gets CONQUERED & SPOILED…OR…some time AFTER that defeat? That 2besee, will have to WAIT for my next DEBUNKING of your analyses, because here cometh the DEBUNKING that Christ is right NOW ruling planet earth…that this world in which we live today is being ruled by Christ since His ascension as stated by YOU… 7 >But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. Here is the 2nd coming…it will occur ONE DAY KNOWN TO THE LORD (sound familiar) and this ONE DAY will be taking place during the EVENING…SOME FUTURE UNKNOWN DAY taking place during SOME UNKNOWN EVENING yet to come…meaning THAT DAY of The Lord…THAT 2nd COMING. And on THAT DAY of the 2nd coming, this will happen: 8 >And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. So on THAT DAY, LIVING WATERS shall go out FROM Jerusalem, and these WATERS will be ON THAT DAY accomplishing something that takes place BETWEEN TWO SEAS!! Hmmmmmm….. And in SUMMER & in WINTER shall it be!! Hmmmmmm… What could that mean? Hmmmmmm… No talk of the whole world here…just a very vauge & LOCALISED EVENT taking place at the COMING concerning LIVING WATERS “flowing” OUT of Jerusalem BETWEEN TWO SEAS!! Hmmmmmm…. Notice there was NO talk of MELTING the earth here either? Just a SPREADING FORTH of LIVING WATERS taking place between TWO very UNMELTED SEAS occurring AGTER Christ has already COME!! Hmmmmmm… But lets leave this mystery for now, for we still don't have solid confirmation within those verses (solid enough for some but not for others) to debunk your MELTING analyses taking place at the coming whilst still in the CLOUDS on that same ONE day. Thus we are forced to continue & your earth being MELTED whilst Christ is in the clouds still stands for now… However, that being said, here below we find our FIRST clear CONTRADICTION in scripture AGAINST what YOU declared: “That Christ has already been RULING the world SINCE His ascension…Sitting on His throne of glory ruling His world KINGDOM from HEAVEN. 9 >And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. “AND THE LORD SHALL BE KING OVER ALL THE EARTH”… WHEN The Lord becomes KING over ALL THE EARTH… “Shall be King”…SHALL…meaning…WILL…meaning NOT YET…BUT WILL…SHALL BE KING… “IN THAT DAY” In THAT DAY WHEN Jesus BECOMES KING OF THE WHOLE WORLD…IN “THAT DAY” when those ISRAELITES WERE FLEEING, where it was NEITHER LIGHT NOR DARK, in “THAT SAME DAY” when Christ & His saints COME when THOSE ISRAELITES are FLEEING when it is neither LIGHT NOR DARK BUT AT EVENING…in “THAT VERY SAME DAY” The LORD BECOMES KING OF THE WHOLE WORLD!! Because in THAT SAME DAY Jesus becomes KING OF THE WHOLE WORLD: “SHALL THERE BE ONE LORD, AND HIS NAME ONE”. THAT DAY of His COMING, that SAME DAY that the Mount of Olives was CLEAVED on that SAME DAY Israelites were FLEEING through that created VALLEY being the SAME DAY where it was NEITHER LIGHT NOR DARK happening on the SAME DAY that CHRIST AND HIS SAINTS COME when those Israelites were FLEEING during the EVENING…on that very SAME DAY we read that the WORLD will finally be under ONE LORD…JESUS THE CHRIST who on THAT DAY becomes KING OF THE WHOLE WORLD…THAT DAY…ONE LORD…ONE KING…Jesus the Christ!!… ON THAT DAY! THAT SAME DAY OF HIS COMING WHERE ALL THOSE EVENTS TOOK PLACE 2besee…. THAT DAY!! Which ONLY means that Jesus is NOT RIGHT NOW RULING THE WHOLE WORLD which means that SATANS KINGDOM HAS NOT YET ENDED which means that there is CURRENTLY MORE than ONE LORD RULING THE WORLD RIGHT NOW which goes AGAINST YOUR ANALYSES and YOUR statement that Christ is right NOW RULING THIS WORLD & has been RULING since ascension… THAT OPINION has JUST been… DEBUNKED. One down. To be continued… Hi Devo. You insist that Zechariah 14 supports your dispensationilist view. Well I disagree — partly because so many other scriptures disprove your theory, and nothing that you speak about appears in the new testament! Now here is a problem for you. Some translations, including the KJV, translate Zechariah 14:1 as “The day of the Lord” when it should be translated as “A day of the Lord”.  Zechariah 14:1: yō·wm- יֽוֹם־ A day That can be verified at this bible study link: http://biblos.com/zechariah/14-1.htm “A day of the Lord” in the old testement usually applies to some historical event in history. Where in Malachi 4:1 – the verse that I believe speaks about the coming DAY of the Lord, as described in the new testament, instead uses the Hebrew word “hay·yō·wm” which means THE DAY comes burning like an oven. hay·yō·wm הַיּוֹם֙ the day That can also be verified at the following bible study link: http://biblos.com/malachi/4-1.htm Malachi 4:1 [1] “For behold, the day comes, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble; the day that comes shall burn them up, says the LORD of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch. [2] But for you who fear my name the sun of righteousness shall rise (WHO IS THE SUN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS DEVO), with healing in its wings. You shall go forth leaping like calves from the stall. [3] And you shall tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act, says the LORD of hosts. [4] “Remember the law of my servant Moses, the statutes and ordinances that I commanded him at Horeb for all Israel. [5] “Behold, I will send you Eli'jah the prophet before the great and terrible day of the LORD comes. —————————- There is only one “Day of the Lord” — it is a future day when Jesus will return, and this “day of the Lord” which is seen in Malachi 4:1 goes with 2nd Peter 3. Zechariah 14 does NOT go with 2nd Peter 3. There are other “days of the Lord” mentioned that are not referring to the ACTUAL “Days of the Lord in which the heavens will melt in the fervent heat….etc.”  — other “days of the Lord” that were applied to the events of their day in ancient history. Zechariah 14 makes no mention of the destruction and burning up of the earth, while 2 Peter 3 clearly does. Also, Zechariah 14 contains a mixture of figurative and literal language just as the rest of the book does. 2nd Peter 3, on the other hand,does not — it is completely straightforward and literal. Clearly not the same Day, Devo. What can you prove to do with the coming day of the Lord that is in the new testament Devo, without the old testament? Can you prove anything? Then show me.

2besee,

Zechariah 14:5 >And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Tell me, what Day is appointed for The Lord to come, of which Day only the Lord knows, that very same Day where He comes accompanied by all His saints?

a) Christmas Day
b) Valentines Day
c) The Day of The Lord

[Wakeup]

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 11 2013,19:38)

Wakeup, This is what the earliest church believed regarding the antichrist. It seems that what you are teaching is the opposite of what they believed (again), and instead you are supporting the coming earthly kingdom of this antichrist (according to the earliest church writings). The antichrist, they believed, would restore the earthly kingdom of Jerusalem. The antichrist would reign from the restored Jerusalem. The antichrist would regather the Hebrews. This is what you are teaching, is it not? Also, notice what they said regarding Jesus return, quote, “And then, finally, in the twinkling of an eye shall the fashion of this world pass away, and the power of men shall be brought to naught, and all visible things shall be destroyed.” Which is exactly what i was saying. Read these key points carefully: (quotes of the early church): “He would have Jerusalem as his seat and imperial Capital. Both the city and its temple were to be rebuilt by him. (He himself pretending to be Christ) Sitting also in the Temple of God so that his dupes may adore him as the Christ. “Antichrist will rule the world from Jerusalem, which he will make into a magnificent city.” This impious man will give orders that he himself shall be worshipped as God. For he will say he is Christ. That he may be believed he will receive the power of doing wonders, so that fire may descend from heaven, the sun retire from its course. But he who reads this passage, even half asleep, cannot fail to see that the kingdom of the Antichrist shall fiercely, though for a short time, assail the Church before the Last Judgment of God has introduced the eternal reign of saints. Antichrist shall work a thousand prodigies on earth. He will make the blind see, the deaf hear, the lame walk, the dead rise, so that even the Elect, if possible, shall be deceived by his magical arts. Puffed up with pride, Antichrist shall enter in triumph the city of Jerusalem and will sit on a throne in the Temple to be adored as if he were the Son of God. “He shall sit in the Temple of God as if he were Christ, and leading astray those who worship him.” After his education at the hands of malignant spirits he will go to Jerusalem and place his seat in the Temple which he will have restored. His influence will extend from sea to sea, largely through force and persuasive eloquence. He will perform many signs and great miracles. “Then the Son of God, Our Lord Jesus Christ, shall come in person. He shall appear on the clouds of heaven surrounded by legions of angels; and, shining with glory, He will put to death Antichrist, the Beast, the Enemy, the Seducer, and all his followers. This shall be the end of time and the beginning of the general judgment.” “Antichrist will heal the sick, raise the dead, restore sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, speech to the dumb, raises storms and calms them, re-names mountains, make trees blossom and wither at a word, re-build the temple of Jerusalem, and make Jerusalem the capital city of the world with the vast wealth of hidden treasures.” “He will call together the whole people to himself, out of every country of the Dispersion, making them his own, as though they were his own children, and promising to restore their country and establish again their kingdom and nation, in order that he may be worshipped by them as God.” Christ showed His flesh as a Temple, and raised it up on the third day; and he, too, will raise up again the Temple of stone in Jerusalem.” “In every respect that Deceiver seeks to make himself appear like the Son of God. Christ is king of things celestial and terrestrial, and Antichrist will be king upon earth. The Saviour sent the Apostles unto all the nations, and he, in like manner will send false apostles. Christ gathered together the dispersed sheep, and he in like manner will gather together the dispersed people of the Hebrews. And then, finally, in the twinkling of an eye shall the fashion of this world pass away, and the power of men shall be brought to naught, and all visible things shall be destroyed.” ————- Can you see the connection in what you are believing and teaching?

2Besee.

First of all; it mentioned the ANTICHRIST.
That alone is an error,because there is no mention of ***THE*** antichrist in scripture.
There are many antichrists;all the jews are antichrist.
Muslemas are actually also anti Christ.Some of my friends are antichrist.

Watch for anyone identifying the son of perdition as just the anti christ,this is a *diversion* from the truth.
Why cant they say the word false Prophet?
Why do they all identify him as the antiChrist?
Rev.Identify him as the *false prophet*,and we should too.

That book has more holes in it than a siff.
written with no knowledge of the prophesies.

I can guarantee that. But if your spirit has a connection with that,than that is what you should follow.

wakeup.

[journey42]

Devolution,Feb. wrote:

Hi 2besee,

Quote

4 >And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 >And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Now i could be deceptive here and say “See, the world is NOT MELTED whilst Christ is in the CLOUDS, because Jesus STANDS on the very UNMELTED Mount of Olives which He STANDS on taking place AFTER His coming in the clouds”…and your rendering of the MELTING of the earth taking place from the CLOUDS would be DEBUNKED. Luckily for you, I am not deceptive. Because Christ does NOT physically STAND on the Mount in this disguised & purposely misleading prophecy at this point of cleaving. How do I know? I will show you…Notice that AFTER Christ has the Mount of Olives cleaved open, His people begin to flee through the valley created…so they are NOT being taken into the clouds to meet Christ, but are instead FLEEING through this violently created valley… Then notice what is said to happen whilst those Israelites are FLEEING…”and the LORD my God SHALL COME, and all the saints with thee.

Excellent post Devo!

Well explained.
This won't be accepted by a few because the SOLIDS are in the old testament.  If it's not mentioned in the new testament, plainly and clearly, then most won't understand.  Just like Zion for example.  The word ZION is mentioned around 160 times in the old testament, but NOT ONCE mentioned in the new testament.  Many have never known who Zion is, but now everyone here is talking about it.  So something new.

We know that Jerusalem will be split into three during Christ's coming.  

Rev 16:18   And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty and earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19   And the great city was divided into three parts.; and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

here also
Rev 11:12   And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither, And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud (resurrection); and their enemies beheld them. (saw them up there)
Rev 11:13   And the same hour was there a great earthquake and the tenth part of THE CITY fell, and in the earthquake were slain seven seven thousand (not everyone) and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

During the coming, seven thousand men in Jerusalem will be killed.  There are survivors.  They are frightened, and obviously running through the newly formed valleys caused by that earthquake.

Zechariah 14:4   And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and halfof it toward the south.

The great city is split into three. The mount of Olives is in Jerusalem.  This has never happened before, so future, whilst Christ returns and is in the air with his angels and saints.

[terraricca]

2bb

Quote

Have you ever ever considered that?( Devo)or anyone), when you are being deceived you do not KNOW that you are being deceived.

this is true friend ,YOU ARE DECEIVED FROM WITHIN YOU SELF, that his what scriptures says .and for only one reason ,BECAUSE YOU WOULD HAVE NOT BELIEVED THE TRUTH OF GOD.

[2besee]

Hi Devo, Wakeup and Journey, and anybody else,

Could you please not quote whole posts which are long, one after the other, unless the post that you are replying to, is on another page.

There are ten posts I think per page, so I find it a bit annoying having to scroll through things that were already said in a post directly above it.

Thank you.

[2besee]

Quote (Devolution @ Feb. 12 2013,00:12)

2besee, Zechariah 14:5 >And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Tell me, what Day is appointed for The Lord to come, of which Day only the Lord knows, that very same Day where He comes accompanied by all His saints? a) Christmas Day b) Valentines Day c) The Day of The Lord

Devo,

Nothing from the new testament?
Nothing – not a thing?
Wow.

If what you teach is truth then why did the Disciples and Jesus not mention it? Did they forget?

ONE VERSE DEVO, from any of the NT excluding Revelations.
One verse to confirm ANYTHING that you teach.

[2besee]

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 12 2013,02:31)

Excellent post Devo! Well explained. This won't be accepted by a few because the SOLIDS are in the old testament.  If it's not mentioned in the new testament, plainly and clearly, then most won't understand.  Just like Zion for example.  The word ZION is mentioned around 160 times in the old testament, but NOT ONCE mentioned in the new testament.  Many have never known who Zion is, but now everyone here is talking about it.  So something new. We know that Jerusalem will be split into three during Christ's coming.   Rev 16:18   And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty and earthquake, and so great. Rev 16:19   And the great city was divided into three parts.; and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. here also Rev 11:12   And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither, And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud (resurrection); and their enemies beheld them. (saw them up there) Rev 11:13   And the same hour was there a great earthquake and the tenth part of THE CITY fell, and in the earthquake were slain seven seven thousand (not everyone) and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. During the coming, seven thousand men in Jerusalem will be killed.  There are survivors.  They are frightened, and obviously running through the newly formed valleys caused by that earthquake. Zechariah 14:4   And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and halfof it toward the south. The great city is split into three. The mount of Olives is in Jerusalem.  This has never happened before, so future, whilst Christ returns and is in the air with his angels and saints.

Journey,
Anything from the words of Jesus himself or the Apostles? Anything? Nothing?

[2besee]

Journey,
That is excluding Revelations which anyone can misinterpret.

[Wakeup]

Quote (2besee @ Feb. 12 2013,07:32)

Journey, That is excluding Revelations which anyone can misinterpret.

2Besee.

Most prophesies are in the old testament.
Do you think that the old testament is out of date?
Is that not also the word of God?
The book of revelation can be mis interpreted,and many have done so.
Thats why we need to compare the old and the new prophesies to confirm the truth.

wakeup.

[2besee]

Wakeup,

You have nothing from the words of Jesus nor the words of the Apostles.

Nothing.

Don't you think that they would have reconfirmed what you are saying if it was truth?

[2besee]

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 12 2013,00:46)

That book has more holes in it than a siff. written with no knowledge of the prophesies.

Wakeup,

It was not a book. It is a collection of writings from different Saints of the earliest Church (1st and 2nd century) and, according to their beliefs, if they are correct, then once again (as it was with water baptism) – what you are teaching is false.

[2besee]

And regarding the book of Revelations. You are trying to fit all of your beliefs into one chapter of the new testament.
I will re-post what I quoted earlier, from the Amillenial Audio..

“Your position says that only in the 20th chapter of the book of Revelation does it allow for the time period for the unfulfilled prophecies of a golden age as foretold by the old testament prophets to be fulfilled.

In other words, your position says that we only have a Revelation 20 to get all these prophecies fulfilled in, and we object to you and your position because your position doesn't allow for all these prophecies to be fulfilled. And thus the only place left to fit all these in is in Revelation 20.

But there are glaring omissions occurring in the 20th chapter of the book of Revelation which many people assume will BE there.

For example,

Omission number one, that is not found.

Jerusalem and Palestine are not mentioned in the chapter.

And yet multitudes of people just assume that Jerusalem and Palestine are found in the 20th chapter of Revelation.

No mention.

Omission number two, the Jews are not mentioned.
Neither is anything said about their restoration to the land.
Their conversion, or any of their activities – none of that is found in the 20th chapter.

Omission number three.

An earthly throne is not found in this chapter.
Where is it?
It's not there.

There are thrones in heaven that are mentioned on which martyrs are reigning with Christ, and the location of the great white throne is not given or identified.
Thrones in heaven, a great white throne of judgment, but no earthly throne is mentioned in the 20th chapter of Revelation.

Wouldn't you think it should be there?

But it isn't.

The 4th glaring omission that you assume is there or would have us believe is there:

There's not a word about universal peace occurring in this chapter.

The 5th omission:

There is no mention to abundant prosperity occurring in this chapter.

The 6th glaring omission:

The productivity of the earth is not mentioned in this 20th chapter.

And the 7th omission: There is nothing about longevity of life in this chapter.

Now these are all statements that are found in the old testament prophecies.

So you say “This has all got to occur in the 20th chapter — this is not occurring now, it is not occurring in the eternal state of affairs, it's got to occur in Revelation 20.

But when we come to Revelation 20, all of these things are omitted.

I ask then if these omissions are not significant? Especially as we cannot find them taught by other new testament writers?

Where would we find any of these descriptions, we got to go back to the old testament. But no new testament writer gives us these reaffirmations.

Don't you think that's significant?”

[2besee]

Anyway, it si up to you.
But I would advise you to look for a coming Lord not a coming Millenium..

I would advise you to listen to the words of the Lord, too.

“At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look! Here’s the Messiah!’ or ‘There he is!’, don’t believe it, because false messiahs and false prophets will appear and display great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Remember, I’ve told you this beforehand. So if they say to you, ‘Look! He’s in the wilderness,’ don’t go out looking for him.l And if they say, ‘Look! He’s in the storeroom,’ don’t believe it, because just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever there’s a corpse, there the vultures will gather.”

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