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Quote (Not3in1 @ July 15 2007,06:04) If special, then how so?
Hi not3,
Special because of his origins as the glorious monogenes Son.
But these things were not truly relevant while he was here as he was emptied and made like to us and as powerless and weak as we are so we can follow him.Unless he was weak the full powers of God could not be manifested through him to the glory of God. He was no god/man with a head start.
They were relevant because he had agreed to come and was sent from heaven in agreement with the plan of God and not just appointed after his birth.
He lost so he could gain being made less than the angels for awhile. It was a true sacrifice of his own life for ours and I for one am grateful to God's son.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 15 2007,07:52) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 15 2007,06:04) If special, then how so?
Hi not3,
Special because of his origins as the glorious monogenes Son.
But these things were not truly relevant while he was here as he was emptied and made like to us and as powerless and weak as we are so we can follow him.Unless he was weak the full powers of God could not be manifested through him to the glory of God. He was no god/man with a head start.
They were relevant because he had agreed to come and was sent from heaven in agreement with the plan of God and not just appointed after his birth.
He lost so he could gain being made less than the angels for awhile. It was a true sacrifice of his own life for ours and I for one am grateful to God's son.
Can you show me where God and Jesus had a meeting and Jesus “agreed to come” to earth? Where is that written?Hi not3,
You have already stated you do not agree with Phil 2 but I gently suggest it is because of preconceived ideology.
heb 1 also speaks first of his begettal and then him coming into the world.” 5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. “
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 15 2007,08:18) Hi not3,
You have already stated you do not agree with Phil 2 but I gently suggest it is because of preconceived ideology.
heb 1 also speaks first of his begettal and then him coming into the world.” 5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. “
Heb 1 does not tell us when the begettal took place. Further, when it speaks of bringing his “first begotten into the world”……….a child has to be conceived before it can be brought into the world, so we are left to assume that he is speaking of this “type” of begettal – that is, the conception of Jesus.There is no reference to a pre-begettal before conception. If so, where?
I do believe that preconceived ideology plays a huge role in how we arrive at our conclusions. That has become really clear to me when I can see various interpretations of scripture that are possible renderings of one passage. If HeavenNet has taught me anything – it has taught me that everyone thinks they are the one that is right…….and everyone else is wrong. Truth has become ambiguous.
Not3,
Of course, everyone is right in their own heart. Muslims think they are right. Christians think they are right. Atheists think they are right. Only God knows all truth, so we just have to keep digging for what we don't know.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 15 2007,20:06) Hi not3,
Only women and midwives bring babies into the world.
God is neither.
You have said this to me before. I think it is a ridiculous statement, Nick. I understand that you are trying to bring the message home that “bringing into the world” is the act of birthing – but, of course, that is not what we were talking about and you know it!
Did you bring your sons into the world Nick?
1. Nick wants a wife.
2. Nick wants a son.
3. Nick conceives a son with his wife.
4. His wife carries the son and gives birth to the son.
5. A Doctor facilitates the birthing process and is *hopefully* there to catch the son when he comes out of the birthing canal.Who brought the son into the world? The Doctor, or Nick?
Do you see how ridiculous your statement is now? I say this with respect, of course.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2007,09:00) Hi not3,
So if I marry and have children
I am bringing sons and daughters into the world??
What else would you call it?Procreate = produce offspring
Produce = present to view, give birth
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2007,15:33) Hi not3,
So where is any other person in scripture shown bringing men into the world?
Bring[ing] = cause to come, produceBecause God chose a virgin/conception/birth as his mode of “bringing” his SON into the world – we are left to assume that words have meaning, and that natural actions are not replaced with tricks.
All men cause their young to come into being through conception.
All men produce their young by procreation.
This is the mode by which God chose his Son to be brought into the world.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2007,17:07) Hi not3,
Scripture…. please.
Luke 1:23,24
“[speaking of Zechariah]……he returned home. After this his wife Elizabeth became pregnant…..”Luke 1:57
“Now the time had come for Elizabeth to give birth, and she bore a son.”Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2007,17:20) Hi not3,
So no fathers bringing men into the world.
Follow our conversation (or at least my posts, ha)….was John not conceived? Of course he was conceived. Did Elizabeth do that on her own?Sorry but you cannot have the “bringing forth” without the “conception/birth” because they are one in the same thing, imo.
I guess I could as you then, where in scripture have children been brought into the world without first being conceived? Adam? Maybe. But Adam is not a biological son of God, that has already been discussed.
Hi not3,
God prepared a body for Christ.
What God calls conception is conception and the lack is in us.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2007,18:41) Hi not3,
God prepared a body for Christ.
What God calls conception is conception and the lack is in us.
OK.How did God “prepare” this body? What are your thoughts on that.
A body prepared for me…….. What does this mean?
We know what kind of body Jesus had; he ate, slept, bled and died. Jesus was woven in the womb for the required 9 months and then given birth. Is this a *different type* of “body that was prepared” for him? I wonder? Was his body different than that of JTB?
“…..the lack is in us.” Nick, this answer sounds to me like that of the Trinitarians when they say, “It's a mystery” or when they say, “Greater minds than ours….” Surely words and examples mean something?
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 16 2007,18:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2007,18:41) Hi not3,
God prepared a body for Christ.
What God calls conception is conception and the lack is in us.
OK.How did God “prepare” this body? What are your thoughts on that.
A body prepared for me…….. What does this mean?
We know what kind of body Jesus had; he ate, slept, bled and died. Jesus was woven in the womb for the required 9 months and then given birth. Is this a *different type* of “body that was prepared” for him? I wonder? Was his body different than that of JTB?
“…..the lack is in us.” Nick, this answer sounds to me like that of the Trinitarians when they say, “It's a mystery” or when they say, “Greater minds than ours….” Surely words and examples mean something?
Hi not3,
Of course his body and JTB's bodies were just like ours.
He also got tired and slept in the boat.
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