- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Hi Malcolm,
You cannot deny scripture. Acts 17 is scripture.Being a son of God geneologically never was a guarantee of the salvation of any man. Men followed Satan and thus he became their true father. But all men can be set free from the kingdom of darkness and brought into the kingdom of God . Sinners were far more willing to listen to Jesus that the self righteous religious men. They knew they needed to be made clean.
That is why we must be born AGAIN.Quote You cannot deny scripture. Acts 17 is scripture. Nobody is denying anything, Acts 17 is scripture. And like all scripture must be rightly divided.
Quote Men followed Satan and thus he became their true father. I cannot find that verse that says men followed Satan and thus he became their true father.
Where is it?
We were born in sin, conceived in iniquity, no-one had to tell us how to sin, it was in our nature, we did not have to follow Satan to have this flaw.
I did not choose to be born this way, it was because of the transgression of Adam that I came the way I did.
For as in Adam all men die – death because of the sin nature imputed upon us because we came by way of Adam.
Even so in Christ all are made alive – (all here being all of God's chosen) life imputed because of the nature of Christ given us at the rebirth.Now it is true that when presented with the choice between following Satan or following Jesus , a person chooses Satan, then his identity is exposed.
He is shown to be like Cain, who in turn was like his daddy and refused to hear God.
So really it just shows you the true fruits, what the seed is…
Jesus told us to beware of these wooly wolves, and that we would be able to identifiy them by their fruits.
I don't care what outward appearances someone can present, to make them seem righteous and holy. It is their reaction to the Word of truth that shows you their fruits.
Satan's kiddies are rebellious to the Word and refuse to be instructed, they get mad when they are and ultimately seek to kill the righteous that stay with the WordQuote Being a son of God geneologically never was a guarantee of the salvation of any man. God is a spirit not a man of flesh and blood, therefore any part of us that is OF his geneology must be spiritual. The only opportunity I see for this is the soul, which is redeemed by blood of Christ, which blood pays the full penalty for sin that had our souls bound by sin.
We don't become sheep because we choose God.
Jesus said my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me.
He did not say :
'If you hear my voice I will make you into my sheep.'
If we receive a rebirth at all it is to quicken that part of us that was a son to the expression of life that a son should have, which we didn't have because of sin, which cut us off from the life that is in God.
What life is in God? Eternal Life!
Jesus gives us this when we hear his voice and follow him.
It is because we ARE sons that God sends the spirit of His son into our hearts by which we cry 'Father Father'.Quote Sinners were far more willing to listen to Jesus that the self righteous religious men. They knew they needed to be made clean. I don't read anywhere that this is the case, that sinners are more willing to hear than anyone else, it says my sheep hear my voice.
ACTS 2:40-41
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.They that gladly heard his word, who were they? sinners? Everyone present save those who were in the upper room were sinners. His sheep that's who they were that gladly heard.
Self righteous religious men are as likely to be sinners as anyone else.
The world is full of those who make a claim to the name Christan…Quote They knew they needed to be made clean. It is my experience that sinners do not know they need to be made clean, and those who are made aware of their need and react appropriately are more than glad to be washed of their sins. There are however plenty of people who are looking for a good conscience soother in religion, or an insurance policy.
An even more who either couldn't care less, or just stubbornly refuse to hear.Hi Malcolm,
Jn 8.40f
“But as it is you are seeking to kill me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God;this Abraham did not do. You are doing the deeds of your father'
They said to him
'We were not born of fornication;we have one father :God'
Jesus said to them
'If God were your father, you would love me, for I proceeded forth and have come form God, for I have not even come on my own initiative, but He sent me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear my word. You are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him'”Why were they still of the father god of this world? because they had not let the inside of their cups be washed.
[Lk 7 29-30]
“”When all the people and the tax collectors heard this they acknowledged God's justice, having been baptised with the baptism of John.
But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, not having been baptised by John”Genesis 1:11
The fruit has the seed within it that tells you what its origin is.
This reaction to his word merely identified it for Jesus.
using the illustration of a citrus orchard he may well have said…
'You claim to be an orange tree but since you are producing lemons now – I see you are in fact not what you claim to be but of another life altogether, and are therefore either grafted in brances living off the life of citrus that is in the good tree, or you are entirely a wrong tree, one my heavenly father has not planted'…
If they were truly what they claimed to be then they would bear the fruits that showed the appropriate life, in this case the life of Abraham was identified by its willingness to hear the Word of God, he was one of God's sheep that hear His voice…Hi Malcolm,
And the seed/fruit of following Adam and Eve and worshipping at the feet of their spiritual father, Satan, is sin.
Have all men “sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”?Rom 3
“There is none righteous, not even one”All need to repent and believe in the one sent by God and be baptised in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of sin and they will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit unto eternity.
So how is it that they have a spiritual Father God, and this spiritual geneology is lost?
Because YOU ARE SONS God has put the spirit of His son in your hearts.
It doesn't say because you became sons.ROMANS 9:8-18
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.The two boys not having been yet born, neither having done good or evil.
God's election is sovereign, He chooses whom He will and hardens whom He will
Adam and eve did not adopt out God and adopt in Satan as their Father.
If that were the case then it would record that Adam was the son of Satan.
Remember both fathers are spirits. Neither is a flesh being…We are Abraham's seed – how? by God's promised Word.
We are children of God's promised Word.
When was it promised? Before the foundation of the world.
When we were predestinated by the foreknowledge of God.
Can God's Word fail?
If God be for us who can be against us.Yes Nick because they are His sheep therefore they hear His voice, know (recognize it) and He recognizes them, and they follow Him (therefore are led by Him).
Those who are NOT His seed, have no place in them for the Word, don't hear His voice, refuse to hear it.Hi Malcolm,
Adam did not have an origin from the Spirit of God.He was dust into who was blown the breath of God according to Gen 2.7.
He derived his life from God his Father just as the Son of God came from the expressed Word of God. God was man's Father but not his spiritual father.
He chose instead to follow the serpent.
According to Genesis 1:26-7 God created man in His own image and likeness.
God is a spirit according to Jn 4:24, Jesus was the image of the invisible God.
God is not a man.
Any Father of something produces children of the like kind of life (Gen 1:11)Hi Malcolm,
But scripture in Lk 3 SAYS that Adam is a son of God?Surely we should try to build in scriptural truth into our concepts and not just reject it out of hand?
Hi,
We must accommodate what God has written.
We must allow our minds to be enlarged by truth.
We should not try to confine truth into the boundaries of our puny minds.That is why few should become teachers because teachers are only fishermen who catch beauty from the sea of God and offer it to those who are hungry. Some are not hungry and throw throw them back but perhaps they should be hungry? Perhaps it is sometimes because they have been satiated by the poisonous food from the men of earth. True fishermen sometimes catch false and useless fish too, speculations and false concepts, that have to be thrown back and not cherished. They have to sit down and sort through their catch. Sometimes they are wrong too as they are always learning and they have to retrieve bad fish from those who are buying.
Quote (malcolm ferris @ May 21 2006,09:30) According to Genesis 1:26-7 God created man in His own image and likeness.
God is a spirit according to Jn 4:24, Jesus was the image of the invisible God.
God is not a man.
Any Father of something produces children of the like kind of life (Gen 1:11)
Hi Malcom,
Since God is spirit and invisible, then the likeness to God in us must not be in visible flesh, taken from the dust of older creation, but as the inner man, which derives from His breath.Quote But scripture in Lk 3 SAYS that Adam is a son of God? Show me anywhere I said he isn't a son of God.
Quote We must accommodate what God has written.
We must allow our minds to be enlarged by truth.
We should not try to confine truth into the boundaries of our puny minds.That's right 100%, only sometimes our minds are not very willing to learn things new or unfamiliar.
Most importantly we must stay with the Word.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2006,20:25) Quote (malcolm ferris @ May 21 2006,09:30) According to Genesis 1:26-7 God created man in His own image and likeness.
God is a spirit according to Jn 4:24, Jesus was the image of the invisible God.
God is not a man.
Any Father of something produces children of the like kind of life (Gen 1:11)
Hi Malcom,
Since God is spirit and invisible, then the likeness to God in us must not be in visible flesh, taken from the dust of older creation, but as the inner man, which derives from His breath.
That's right Nick, that is what I am talking about, Adam is a son of God in his soul. Obviously not in his flesh. And the soul is the seed, the true nature of man. And just like any seed can only produce according to kind.Quote (malcolm ferris @ May 20 2006,20:20) Genesis 1:11
The fruit has the seed within it that tells you what its origin is.
This reaction to his word merely identified it for Jesus.
using the illustration of a citrus orchard he may well have said…
'You claim to be an orange tree but since you are producing lemons now – I see you are in fact not what you claim to be but of another life altogether, and are therefore either grafted in brances living off the life of citrus that is in the good tree, or you are entirely a wrong tree, one my heavenly father has not planted'…
If they were truly what they claimed to be then they would bear the fruits that showed the appropriate life, in this case the life of Abraham was identified by its willingness to hear the Word of God, he was one of God's sheep that hear His voice…
Hi Malcolm,
Gen 1.11
” Then God said
'Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them'
And so it was”So first plants
then seed for food and reproduction,
then fruit as food containing seed for reproduction.Do you say that the sons of God are good seed awaiting only the water of life for growth?
Were the Pharisees in Lk 7.29 to be saved in the plan of God?
Jesus said in Lk 6.44f that
“you cannot pick figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush”.
So it is not possible to pick lemons from an orange tree according to the Word. What is planted in good soil and watered produces fruit after it's own kind. If it does not, if it fails to produce fruit, the Gardener will fertilise it, then if that fails dig it out. If it produces other fruit then it was never planted by the gardener and will be pulled out as a “tare”.Hi,
In Jn 12 Jesus told us a grain of wheat must fall to the ground and die if it is to bear fruit.
The fruit is the fruit of the new life in the body.
That life is from the Spirit of God producing fruit [Gal 5.22] as the nature of Christ unto eternal life.Quote Were the Pharisees in Lk 7.29 to be saved in the plan of God? God knows which are His, of some of these Pharisess Jesus had many words of condemnation, I cannot vouch for all of the Pharisees however. Take for example Nicodemus, who secretly wanted to learn from Jesus.
Jesus did say that any plant which his Father had not planted would be pulled up.
And yes the seed must die before the life in it can bring forth, he was speaking in two senses here.
One referring to himself and the need for his death to bring forth a harvest of life through the resurrection and sending of the Holy Spirit.
Secondly to the individual – that we must die to our old thoughts (repent) and be born again.
Repentance (death to our former conversation – which is a decision based upon receiving enlightenment from the Word by His Spirit)
Followed by a rebirth (the dead seed/ soul now quickened to life by His Spirit)Anyway G2G have a busy day – will talk more later.
Hi Malcolm,
We also die with him by being baptised in water into his death[Rom 6]God writes the futurre before it happenes so of corse He knows those who will respond to His grace given in Christ and can write their names now in the book of life.
We are vessels [2Tim2.20]and Christ too is a vessel, designed to hold the treasure of the Spirit of God[2Cor 4.7] That vessel must be cleansed before it can be used, otherewise it remains a vessel to dishonor.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
