- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2007,18:44) Hi not3,
Is 53 does not describe glory.
Jesus has glory as the begotten Son of God! He has to be born before he can receive that glory.Hi not3,
' begotten ' is not closely related to monogenes.
John and Peter saw the glory of the monogenes Son on the mountain, the glory that he had had with the Father and wanted to have again.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2007,10:01) Hi not3,
' begotten ' is not closely related to monogenes.
John and Peter saw the glory of the monogenes Son on the mountain, the glory that he had had with the Father and wanted to have again.
Are you sure?Could it be that God glorified him temporarily (because the glory obviously faded) so that he could be in the same realm as Mo and Eli? There are other explainations, aren't there? To assume that the glory shown when he was transfigured was the glory he had “underneath” the flesh – well – that is reading into scripture what you hope is there, imho. For no where else is Jesus ascribed any other glory than that of the only begotten Son.
Let's just say for the sake of things that this glory was the glory of a preexistent spirit Son who had been sent to earth – and Peter was an eyewitness to it – why didn't Peter preach about this? Peter says they heard the voice (of God) regarding Jesus and that is his emphasis – not the glory that was revealed. I find that curious if this glory was to be a peak at who Jesus really was underneath it all – you would think that would become Peter's main thrust and message – who Jesus “really” was.
hi not3,
Did he recognose Moses and Elijah and, if so, how?
Were they holding placards like folk do at airports?Quote (Not3in1 @ June 12 2007,14:19) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2007,10:01) Hi not3,
' begotten ' is not closely related to monogenes.
John and Peter saw the glory of the monogenes Son on the mountain, the glory that he had had with the Father and wanted to have again.
Are you sure?Could it be that God glorified him temporarily (because the glory obviously faded) so that he could be in the same realm as Mo and Eli? There are other explainations, aren't there? To assume that the glory shown when he was transfigured was the glory he had “underneath” the flesh – well – that is reading into scripture what you hope is there, imho. For no where else is Jesus ascribed any other glory than that of the only begotten Son.
Let's just say for the sake of things that this glory was the glory of a preexistent spirit Son who had been sent to earth – and Peter was an eyewitness to it – why didn't Peter preach about this? Peter says they heard the voice (of God) regarding Jesus and that is his emphasis – not the glory that was revealed. I find that curious if this glory was to be a peak at who Jesus really was underneath it all – you would think that would become Peter's main thrust and message – who Jesus “really” was.
Hi not3
Jn17
“1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD with thee before the world was.”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2007,14:30) hi not3,
Did he recognose Moses and Elijah and, if so, how?
Were they holding placards like folk do at airports?
Maybe?
I'm kidding.
Well, I'm sure it was revealed to Jesus. I'm sure they said something like, “Jesus it's me, Eli and Mo is with me – don't freak out. We're here to encourage you brother! If you quit now and don't go to the cross…..all will be lost! We believe in you.”
Hi M,
You wrote in another thread
Hi not3in1,
It may be interesting to understand the Hebrew perspective on the word Father. In the Hebrew language a name is not a identifier. In otherwords “father” is not a proper name. This concept is foreign to the Hebrew mind. To the Hebrew the term “father” literally means “one who gives strength to the family”. A name is a character trait to the Hebrews. For example; King David wuld be translated to the western mind as king = title and david = personal name. To the Hebrew it would mean King = one whio rules and David = one who is loved.. When A Hebrew reads King David they literally think one who rules and is loved.
When a Hebrew reads “father” they think the one who gives strength to the family.
FATHER
Number 3962
Transliteration:
pater {pat-ayr'}
Word Origin:
apparently a root word
TDNT:
5:945,805
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
Father 268, father 150Total: 418
Definition:
generator or male ancestor
either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents
a more remote ancestor, the founder of a race or tribe, progenitor of a people, forefather: so Abraham is called, Jacob and David
fathers i.e. ancestors, forefathers, founders of a race
one advanced in years, a senior
metaph.
the originator and transmitter of anything
the authors of a family or society of persons animated by the same spirit as himself
one who has infused his own spirit into others, who actuates and governs their minds
one who stands in a father's place and looks after another in a paternal way
a title of honour
teachers, as those to whom pupils trace back the knowledge and training they have received
the members of the Sanhedrin, whose prerogative it was by virtue of the wisdom and experience in which they excelled, to take charge of the interests of others
God is called the Father
of the stars, the heavenly luminaries, because he is their creator, upholder, ruler
of all rational and intelligent beings, whether angels or men, because he is their creator, preserver, guardian and protector
of spiritual beings and of all men
of Christians, as those who through Christ have been exalted to a specially close and intimate relationship with God, and who no longer dread him as a stern judge of sinners, but revere him as their reconciled and loving Father
the Father of Jesus Christ, as one whom God has united to himself in the closest bond of love and intimacy, made acquainted with his purposes, appointed to explain and carry out among men the plan of salvation, and made to share also in his own divine nature
by Jesus Christ himself
by the apostlesps,
And in OT as in Gen 2.24
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Number 1
Transliteration:
'ab {awb}
Word Origin:
a root
TWOT:
4a
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
father 1205, chief 2, families 2, desire 1, fatherless 0369 1, forefathers 07223 1, patrimony 1, prince 1, principal 1Total: 1215
Definition:
father of an individual
of God as father of his people
head or founder of a household, group, family, or clan
ancestor
grandfather, forefathers — of person
of people
originator or patron of a class, profession, or art
of producer, generator (fig.)
of benevolence and protection (fig.)
term of respect and honour
ruler or chief (spec.)Thanks, Nick. All of this information is going to help me put together one fantastic card for my husband on Father's Day!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 12 2007,14:47) one who has infused his own spirit into others
This is one of my favorites in describing a Father…The Father has infused his own spirit into his only begotten Son.
The Father has not incarnated himself into his only begotten Son (so as to make the Son turn into God the Son. Right?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2007,18:44) Hi not3,
Is 53 does not describe glory.
Hi Nick:I understand that you are saying this because Isaiah 53 describes his suffering, but what makes him the glorious Son of God is that he obeyed God without sin even unto death on the cross so that whosoever chooses to be reconciled to God may do so.
Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
1:9
THOU HAST LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND HATED INIQUITY; THEREFORE * * God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.Phil 2:8
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
2:9
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:God Bless
Hi 94,
Is 53 describes the man Jesus as seen by men before his anointing with the power and nature of God by the Spirit.” 1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.”
You missed the first part of Phil2.
He was
before he came
and he was found
in fashion as a man.Hi not3,
What does son of God mean to you?
Since Jesus was conceived does it really mean ” son of God and Mary”
I think he was truly the son of God alone-monogenes.Hi not3,
God does not share his glory with anyone.
ps 2
” 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. “Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 19 2007,16:09) Hi not3,
God does not share his glory with anyone.
ps 2
” 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. “
Nick, I'm uncertain as to the point you are making?I agree with what you have written.
Ps 2 is prophetic. If you don't believe it is prophetic, what are your reasons for believing otherwise?
“…may have happened.” ?
Well, most of what is written in the Psalms is prophetic. Even parts of the Psalm you are referring to are prophetic. So, I'm only going by what seems logical.
However, I am open to seeing this truth if it can be clearly taught in scripture without the deducing and deducting like the Trinity teachings.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
