- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Cult Buster @ Mar. 19 2007,12:06) The Son of God is also God Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch(Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.
Joh 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: (because Jesus claimed the name of God)There you are! Jesus is Jehovah; the great I AM.
Moses is called god/elohim …(Exo 4:16) And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee a mouth, and thou [MOSES] shalt be to him God.
(Exo 7:1) And YAHWEH said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
The judges were called god/elohim …
(Exo 21:6) Then his master shall bring him unto the judges[gods/elohim]; …
(Exo 22:8-9) If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges [gods/elohim], to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour's goods. 9 For all manner of trespass, … which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges [gods/elohim]; and whom the judges [gods/elohim] shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.
(Exo 22:28) Thou shalt not revile the gods [elohim; the judges], nor curse the ruler of thy people.
Jesus the Messiah used this fact …
(Psa 82:6) I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
(John 10:34-36) Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Concerning el gibbor, Isa 9.6 …
(Ezek 32:21) The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain by the sword.
The strong among the mighty … is literally in the Hebrew language, the mighty gods; i.e. the same Hebrew phrase, el gibbor, as in Isa 9.6, except in plural!
In other words, el gibbor is speaking of mighty men/warriors! The Messiah is indeed a mighty (hu)man!Look what Jerusalem is called!!
(Jer 33:14-16) Behold, the days come, saith YAHWEH, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah. 15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. 16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, YAHWEH our righteousness.
Concerning “I am” …
(John 9:8-9) The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged? 9 Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.
The same Greek ego eimi as in John 8.58, etc!
There is absolutely no connection between Exo 3.14 & John 8.58. The simplest proof of this is to look at the Greek of Exo 3.14 in the LXX.
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, ego eimi ho ohn: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, ho ohn hath sent me unto you.
If Jesus was indeed identifying himself with the One in Exo 3.14; John would have recorded him saying …
“Before Abraham, ego eimi ho ohn” OR
“Before Abraham, ho ohn“Jesus said no such this!
Jesus used the phrase ego eimi to identify himself as the promised Messiah (just as he did in 4.26,8:24,28)
In like manner, the man who was healed uses the same phrase to identify himself as the one who was blind.
ego eimi is equivalent to It's me!So, CB, Anyone can produce a list of scriptures …
However, it is better to list scriptures in the right context!Hi Adam Pastor,
Thank you for “concerning I am”
I had not looked at the Hebrew and Greek words used before.Very good.
Tim
Hi,
God calls Himself
“I am who am”
Christ was with God in the beginning and so was before Abraham and David.
Living Abraham rejoiced to see the coming of Messiah and David called him Lord.Hi,
Micah[kjv]
Chapter 5
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old[6924], from everlasting[3117].
NASB
2″But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Too little to be among the clans of Judah,
From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel
His goings forth are from long ago,
From the days of eternity.”
Number 6924
Transliteration:
qedem {keh'-dem} or qedmah {kayd'-maw}
Word Origin:
from 6923
TWOT:
1988a
Part of Speech:
Usage in the KJV:
east 32, old 17, eastward 11, ancient 6, east side 5, before 3, east part 2, ancient time 2, aforetime 1, eternal 1, misc 7Total: 87
Definition:
n m
east, antiquity, front, that which is before, aforetime
front, from the front or east, in front, mount of the East
ancient time, aforetime, ancient, from of old, earliest time
anciently, of old (adverb)
beginning
east adv
eastward, to or toward the East
Number 3117
Transliteration:
yowm {yome}
Word Origin:
from an unused root meaning to be hot
TWOT:
852
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
day 2008, time 64, chronicles 01697 37, daily 44, ever 18, year 14, continually 10, when 10, as 10, while 8, full always 4, whole 4, alway 4, misc 44Total: 2279
Definition:
day, time, year
day (as opposed to night)
day (24 hour period)
as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
as a division of time
a working day, a day's journey
days, lifetime (pl.)
time, period (general)
year
temporal references
today
yesterday
tomorrowOne thing is plain.
The Son has an origin.
God does not have an ORIGIN.
God is the originalHi WIT,
You said in another thread
'1 John 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God.
2 John 7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.These verses indicate that Jesus was in the flesh. “
So Jesus,
existed,
and came in the flesh?Hi,
Those who strive here day after day to try to show by inference that both Jesus and his father are called by the same name should really ask themselves what eternal benefits are to be found in such endeavours. They cannot find a third of the same name so it does not help their proposition that our God is a trinity. If they prove it to their own satisfaction are they not also denying the Son of God, who is the vital link in their hope for salvation?Hi,
They should listen to the answer Jesus gave when accused of making himself God.
John 10
33The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” …..
…..”..do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, ' I am the Son of God'?Hi Nick, this may interest you.
GOD'S CREATIVE ORIGINAL
A. E. KnochThe names and titles of Christ are worthy of the closest study, and should be examined closely in the Original, as presented in the sublinear of the Concordant Version. There we read of THE ORIGINAL OF-THE CREATION OF-THE God. In phrases such as this, the relation of the words to each other are of prime importance. Here it is the so-called genitive, which we call the possessive case.
It is not simply THE-God, but tou, OF-THE, and Theou, God's, not Theos, God. It is not God, Himself, but something that is His, that is, the creation. A long list of the occurrences of this form will be found on page 259 of the lexicon in the complete C.V., as well as on page 128 of the International edition (Rev.3:14).
There we have them segregated into groups, Son, Kingdom, begotten, glory, grace, hand, sight, judgment, messengers, power, righteousness, spirit, will, word, and others. These hundreds of examples unite their testimony in affirming that whatever is of God is distinct from God. All is of God (2 Cor.5:18). That clearly shows that all is not God Himself, as some suppose. A son is of a father, but no son is his own father. A creation of man is not man himself God's creation is not God.
Further, in the example before us, “beginning” or “Original,” of creation is neither God nor creation, but belongs to creation, and must be created. According to the C.V. concordance, this form occurs in Mark 10:6; 13:19; Rom.1:20; 8:19; Col.1:5; Heb.9:11; 2 Peter 3:4, and in this passage, Rev.3:14. In fact this very phrase “beginning of creation” occurs in Mark 10:6; 13:19; 2 Peter 3:4, and refers to the first part of the time in which creation has existed. But our passage is in the unveiling of Jesus Christ, and He is the One indicated by this phrase. His relation to creation is more definitely set forth in Col.1:15-17, where He is said to be the Firstborn of every creature (which shows that He is One), and all else was created in Him and through Him and for Him, and He is before all. So also was the human race created in and through Adam, who was before the rest. Let us believe exactly what is revealed, rather than reason illogically about it in order to make bring it in line with the apostasy of Christendom.
Blessings.
© Concordant Publishing ConcernHi,
The Son of God is our vital foundation stone.
This is what Is 1.18 said of the term in another thread.“Yes, but what did Peter mean by “Son of God”? To the Jewish mind “Son of” can denote 'nature of' or 'of the order of'. James and John were called (by Yeshua) sons of thunder (Mark 3:17), they had this nature. Judas was described (by Yeshua) as a son of perdition (John 17:12). In the OT the son of a prophet was a term used to describe someone from the order of the prophets. So Peter may have intended this connotation.”
Faith in the Son of God is essential and such is a sad commentary on how he has been denied.
Hi,
The major plan of Satan is to deny the Son of God.
He does this largely by trying to show that Jesus is God Himself thereby denying the existence of the Son. Under the apparently noble approach of encouraging men to treat Jesus as our God his own personal status as the son of God is steadily undermined.
He has successfully deceived the whole world it seems with the orthodox 'churches' busily promoting this doctrine.Jn 14
“1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. “Thus he shows he is not God but it a being separate from God.
He is the mediator between God and men.Jesus is the male offspring of God (aka – the Son of God).
Jesus is the second person of the Triune God, who is an incarnation of God himself (aka – the Son of God).
Which sounds scriptural?
If is my feeling that to make Jesus something other-than the literal Son of God is to slap the face of the Father who beget him.
Hi not3,
Jn 8
“42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:
for I proceeded forth
AND
came from God;
neither came I of myself, but he sent me.”The Monogenes Son here describes his origins.
How do you read this?I read it simply as it is written.
Proceed = come forth
Come = originate
Originate = beginning or derivation from a source
Beginning = start or come into being
Source = point of origin, providing what is neededEssentially, this passage in John 8 is describing John 1:1 – Jesus had a beginning, a start, and his origin is God who provided what was needed for him to be alive.
Jesus couldnt' come to earth himself because he didn't exist. But he originated with God (his beginning), then God provided what was needed (sperm for Mary's egg – yes Tim2, it's true – scandalous, huh?), then Jesus can say he came from God. Didn't your sons come from you? Are you not their originator?
Hi Not3,
That is sexist, in human terms, putting human fatherhood before maternal involvement?
What of Mary?
“Did not exist” indicates prejudice against learning.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,07:03) Hi Not3,
That is sexist, in human terms, putting human fatherhood before maternal involvement?
What of Mary?
“Did not exist” indicates prejudice against learning.
You had said that “bringing forth” was the delivery of the child and thus attributed to Mary only, and I thought that was sexist – to leave the father out of the “bringing forth.” I'm sorry to say that without the Rooster there would be no fertile eggs coming from the chicken – the only thing coming from my chickens are eggs for our breakfast (because we do not own a Rooster). Without the Father, there would be no Son. Mary would ovulate all she wants to, but without a “Father's will” there will be no child.“Did not exist” indicates what? What are you referring to?
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 06 2007,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2007,07:03) Hi Not3,
That is sexist, in human terms, putting human fatherhood before maternal involvement?
What of Mary?
“Did not exist” indicates prejudice against learning.
You had said that “bringing forth” was the delivery of the child and thus attributed to Mary only, and I thought that was sexist – to leave the father out of the “bringing forth.” I'm sorry to say that without the Rooster there would be no fertile eggs coming from the chicken – the only thing coming from my chickens are eggs for our breakfast (because we do not own a Rooster). Without the Father, there would be no Son. Mary would ovulate all she wants to, but without a “Father's will” there will be no child.“Did not exist” indicates what? What are you referring to?
Hi Not3,
No I did not.
I showed it did not mean that.
So what does this bringing forth of a Son into the world mean?You said that midwifes and mothers bring children into the world and fathers do not (page 10 Philippians thread). Please correct me further if I am misunderstanding.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
