- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (malcolm ferris @ Aug. 11 2006,05:02) Hi typrsn I disagree that in Acts 3 Peter is not speaking of the future coming of the Lord, as the progression of the verses indicates otherwise in my opinion.
The way I read it he is speaking of a time of refreshing to come in which Jesus Christ shall be sent who must be retained in the Heavens until this time – which is also referred to as the time of the restitution of all things. A time which has been spoken of since the world began by all of Gods holy prophets. And in this context Peter then refers to the words of Moses.
So in my opinion there is a time mentioned here in numerous places in which all things are to be restored (Mt 17:11) in which that which was lost through a falling away (2 Thess 2:3) will be restored to the true church.
Malcolm,Peter is no doubt speaking of a future time as it relates to the coming of the Lord. What Peter is saying is “Repent and get right with God by hearing Jesus (the same One you refused to hear when He was on earth through your ignorance) that times of refreshing may come from the Lord because He is the One that was designated for you. He lets them know in verse 25 that by virtue of the fact they were the descendants of the prophets and of the covenant made with their fathers that they had preferential treatment. If they do not repent and be converted they will be destroyed from among the people. It was not too late for them to respond, but if they chose to respond the wrong way, they were to expect judgment like everyone else (2 Thess. 1:7-10).This is somewhat similar to what Paul said in Acts 17:30,31, but with a “promise to the fathers, you are the descendants” twist to it.
Hi T and M,
ACTS 3:19-23
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. “My view;
This is Peter preaching the message of salvation to unconverted jews.
My paraphrasing;
“Repent and be baptised for the forgiveness of your sins. The Scriptures reveal Jesus as God's messiah appointed to restore the kingdom to God and he is the prophet promised by Moses. He is here to fulfill all of scripture. He will lead us back to God when he returns to heaven.You will be brought amazingly closer to God with the temple curtain removed and have a special time as like a honeymoon when His love will surround you and you will be thinking it will always be easy. Then is the time that you must walk while the light is with you grasping at all the graces and knowledge and gifts on offer and feeding on the Word.
The seed of the Spirit of Christ will be planted in you and if nourished will grow so that the light of the morning star will arise in your own heart to teach and show you all the things of God. If you do not accept the Son of God you have sealed your own fate and will perish.”
Hi,
John and John the baptist spoke about the Word of God
The monogenes Son of God,
who existed before the baptist
who was conceived before him and
who came into the world,
which had been made through him.
Jn 1 14 f
” 14And ®the Word (S)became flesh, and (T)dwelt among us, and (U)we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of (V)grace and (W)truth.
15John (X)testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, '(Y)He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, (Z)for He existed before me.'”Jn 1.10
” 10He was in the world, and (N)the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.”I accept their testimony as being true.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 11 2006,22:13) Hi, John and John the baptist spoke about the Word of God
The monogenes Son of God,
who existed before the baptist
who was conceived before him and
who came into the world,
which had been made through him.
Jn 1 14 f
” 14And ®the Word (S)became flesh, and (T)dwelt among us, and (U)we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of (V)grace and (W)truth.
15John (X)testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, '(Y)He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, (Z)for He existed before me.'”Jn 1.10
” 10He was in the world, and (N)the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.”I accept their testimony as being true.
Nick,Where are you going with this? Are you now willing to admit that Jesus Christ is God? Are you saying ther's more to the Son of God than the physical? Are you saying that God had a Son in heaven?
Absolutely,
God had a beloved Son before all else.
He was with God in the beginning as the Word.
The Son was begotten of that God as an image but was never that God.
The firstborn Son, through who all other sons and indeed all of creation was made, emptied himself and was sent partaking completely of our estate that we might be saved.The demons knew who he was so he forbade them to speak.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 11 2006,22:25) Absolutely,
God had a beloved Son before all else.
He was with God in the beginning as the Word.
The Son was begotten of that God as an image but was never that God.
The firstborn Son, through who all other sons and indeed all of creation was made, emptied himself and was sent partaking completely of our estate that we might be saved.The demons knew who he was so he forbade them to speak.
Nick,When did you change your mind? Do you believe in the trinity? Have you read any of the writings of Athanasius? What do you mean by “He was with God”? This is contradiction to Is. 44:6,8,24; 45:5,21,22. Unless you are saying that He existed as the thought and expression of that thought through words.
Hi Typ,
I believed in the trinity as a child and even till mid 40s but gradually the Spirit in me stirred me up by showing it's huge inconsistencies and I started searching deeper finishing up here a few years ago and finding I was not alone and it was OK to check out what had been my foundation.I found it was false and a lie.
I now realise it is the greatest barrier between us and God and prevents us from knowing Him as a Father and knowing His love because it is of sin and sinful man and God does not tolerate sin.
It is not of faith, as faith is according to the scriptures. Whatever is not of faith is of sin.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 12 2006,00:10) Hi Typ,
I believed in the trinity as a child and even till mid 40s but gradually the Spirit in me stirred me up by showing it's huge inconsistencies and I started searching deeper finishing up here a few years ago and finding I was not alone and it was OK to check out what had been my foundation.I found it was false and a lie.
I now realise it is the greatest barrier between us and God and prevents us from knowing Him as a Father and knowing His love because it is of sin and sinful man and God does not tolerate sin.
Nick,The trinity is false, but please answer the question(s) from my previous post.
Hi T,
You asked“When did you change your mind?”
Gradually till sure three or four years ago.“Do you believe in the trinity?”
What trinity“Have you read any of the writings of Athanasius?”
No except for limited amounts about his creed etc.“What do you mean by “He was with God”?
Jn 1.1 the Word was with God-repeated again in the same chapter and in 1jn1“This is contradiction to Is. 44:6,8,24; 45:5,21,22.”
No I do not think so. Indeed there is no GOD like to our God“Unless you are saying that He existed as the thought and expression of that thought through words.”
No. He is the expressed Word of God, spoken into separate existence or begotten.
Phil 2 tell us he was in the form of God. Ps 95,96,97 1Cor 8 tell us more.——————————————————————————–
Hi,
Lk 1.35” 35The angel answered and said to her, “(A)The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of (B)the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason ©the holy Child shall be called (D)the Son of God. “
So Jesus is called
the Son of God
because he really is
The Son of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 12 2006,20:04) Hi,
Lk 1.35” 35The angel answered and said to her, “(A)The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of (B)the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason ©the holy Child shall be called (D)the Son of God. “
So Jesus is called
the Son of God
because he really is
The Son of God.
Nick,I believe that God didn't have a Son until He was made of a woman just like Gal. 4:4, Matt. 1:18-23; Luke 1:26-35; Is. 7:14; Is. 9:6 say. As was promised to Adam and Eve after the fall in Gen. 3:15.
God called Abraham a father of many nations when he didn't even have one child (Gen. 17:5). He calls those things that be not, as though they already were (Rom. 3:17). Known unto God are all His works from the beginning of the world/age (it was no afterthought, He always knew He would do it)(Acts 15:18). Peter said about Christ ” Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.” (1 Pet. 1:20). The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8). The salvation in Christ Jesus was given before the world (ages) begin (2 Tim. 1:9,10). The church was chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, predestinated to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will (Ephes. 1:4,5). All of this deals with God's master plan (Ephes. 1:9-12; Ephes. 2:10; Ephes. 3:11). Before God did anything in time, He planned everything in eternity. His whole plan centered around His Son.
Hi T,
This is a misinterpretation from the KJV and the NIV.
Other versions make the true meaning clearer.
Your quote
“The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8).”NASB
” 8All who (A)dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone (B)whose name has not been [a]written ©from the foundation of the world in the (D)book of life of (E)the Lamb who has been slain. “Any doubts will be clarified from Rev 17.8
” 8″(A)The beast that you saw (B)was, and is not, and is about to ©come up out of the (D)abyss and [a](E)go to destruction And (F)those who dwell on the earth, (G)whose name has not been written in the book of life (H)from the foundation of the world, will (I)wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.”
Hi t,
You say
“I believe that God didn't have a Son until He was made of a woman”The problems with this view is that all things have been created through him so he precedes all things with the obvious exception of the Father.
He is also the Word that was with God, not in God, in the beginning.
And he is the firstborn of creation, the monogenes Son, derived directly from God Himself and not with the help of a woman's genes.
And he is the son who was sent into the world[1Jn 4.9]
The parable of the owner of the vineyard shows the owner sending his own son as a last resort after all his servants[prophets] had been rejected and killed. Surely this is the Son with God who was sent?
Romans 1 shows that Christ can be considered according to the flesh and according to the Spirit.
Rom 1. 1-4
” 1Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, (A)called as an apostle, (B)set apart for ©the gospel of God,
2which He (D)promised beforehand through His (E)prophets in the holy Scriptures,3concerning His Son, who was born (F)of a descendant of David (G)according to the flesh,
4who was declared (H)the Son of God with power [a]by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,”
Natural men wish only to relate to him according to what they see. the flesh. He was before all men, Abraham, David and John the baptist. He emptied himself, humbled himself, obeyed God and partook of our flesh[Phil; 2.5].
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 12 2006,21:45) Hi T,
This is a misinterpretation from the KJV and the NIV.
Other versions makes the true meaning clearer.
Your quote
“The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8).”NASB
” 8All who (A)dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone (B)whose name has not been [a]written ©from the foundation of the world in the (D)book of life of (E)the Lamb who has been slain. “Any doubts will be clarified from Rev 17.8
” 8″(A)The beast that you saw (B)was, and is not, and is about to ©come up out of the (D)abyss and [a](E)go to destruction And (F)those who dwell on the earth, (G)whose name has not been written in the book of life (H)from the foundation of the world, will (I)wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.”
Nick,As usual, you overlook the other scripture evidence and isolate a passage to focus on. So the Lamb wasn't slain from the foundation of the world in the plan of the Almighty? What about the rest of my post? So God who is a Spirit had a Son who is also a Spirit? Come on Nick. When Solomon wrote Ecc. 4:8a “There is one alone, and there is not a second: yea, He has neither child nor brother”, God didn't yet have a Son. When you read passages like Is. 8:18 although Isaiah was referring to himself and his sons Shear-jashub and Maher-shalal-hash-baz, the ultimate reference was to Jesus (Heb. 2:13). The O.T. (not only Psalms) is full of Messianic prophecies that Messiah would fulfill. See Is.49:1,2,5,6 for example. Also Is. 50:4-11 w/ Matt. 26:67; 27:30. There's also Is. 12; Is. 52:13-15, Is. 53; Is. 61;etc, YHWH said He would not give His glory to another (Is. 42:8), YHWH said there was no Elohim before Him or after Him and He is the only Saviour (Is. 43:10-12, Is. 45:21,22; Acts 4:12), YHWH said that He is the first and the last and Elohim alone (Is. 44:6,8; Is. 48:12; Rev. 1:8,11,17, etc), YHWH said that He made all things, stretched forth the heavens alone,; and spreaded abroad the earth by Himself (Is. 44:24), again YHWH said there is no Elohim beside Him (Is. 45:5,6), YHWH said every knee shall bow unto Him and every tongue confess (Is. 45:23, Phil. 2:10,11; Rom. 14:10-12). Look at how He tells Israel in Is. 46:10 that He declares the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done. YHWH became salvation as was prophesied in Is. 12. That is why when He was born in the world He was named Jesus/Yahushuah which means YHWH is salvation (Matt. 1:21) and there is salvation in no other (Acts 4:12; Rom. 10: 13, Joel 2:32). And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory(1Tim.3:16).
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 12 2006,21:58) Hi t,
You say
“I believe that God didn't have a Son until He was made of a woman”The problems with this view is that all things have been created through him so he precedes all things with the obvious exception of the Father.
He is also the Word that was with God, not in God, in the beginning.
And he is the firstborn of creation, the monogenes Son, derived directly from God Himself and not with the help of a woman's genes.
And he is the son who was sent into the world[1Jn 4.9]
The parable of the owner of the vineyard shows the owner sending his own son as a last resort after all his servants[prophets] had been rejected and killed. Surely this is the Son with God who was sent?
Romans 1 shows that Christ can be considered according to the flesh and according to the Spirit.
Rom 1. 1-4
” 1Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, (A)called as an apostle, (B)set apart for ©the gospel of God,
2which He (D)promised beforehand through His (E)prophets in the holy Scriptures,3concerning His Son, who was born (F)of a descendant of David (G)according to the flesh,
4who was declared (H)the Son of God with power [a]by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,”
Natural men wish only to relate to him according to what they see. the flesh. He was before all men, Abraham, David and John the baptist. He emptied himself, humbled himself, obeyed God and partook of our flesh[Phil; 2.5].
Nick,There was no one with God. God possesed His wisdom and understanding. In Prov. 8 we see wisdom personified. In Prov. 3:19,20 Solomon tells us that YHWH by wisdom, understanding and knowledge did these things. Paul tells us that Christ Jesus is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption (1 Cor. 1:30). This is what John refers to in John 1:1,14 and 1 John 1:1,2. John personifies wisdom, understanding, knowledge, righteousness, sanctification and redemption as the Word (Logos). This is the embodiment of these attributes. Paul somewhat echoes this in Col. 1:3. The Word made flesh speaks of the collective treasure of wisdom and knowledge made known through Jesus Christ.
Hi t,
You say
” God possesed His wisdom and understanding. In Prov. 8 we see wisdom personified. In Prov. 3:19,20 Solomon tells us that YHWH by wisdom, understanding and knowledge did these things. Paul tells us that Christ Jesus is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption (1 Cor. 1:30). This is what John refers to in John 1:1,14 and 1 John 1:1,2. John personifies wisdom, understanding, knowledge, righteousness, sanctification and redemption as the Word (Logos). This is the embodiment of these attributes. Paul somewhat echoes this in Col. 1:3. The Word made flesh speaks of the collective treasure of wisdom and knowledge made known through Jesus Christ.”So Jesus Christ personified certain attributes of God?
Was this from his conception or birth or from the Jordan baptism/anointing?
If from birth when do we see these attributes before the Jordan?
If after the Jordan then what attributes did he show before then?
Did his anointing with the Spirit of God then change him in any way?
If he was conceived in Mary to be son of Man what attributes did she give to the child?
Was Jesus God incarnate from birth?
Do not the attributes shown in the nature of Jesus echo the fruit of the Spirit in Gal 5?
Then were these not from the Spirit of God within him rather than from himself?Hi,
When Jesus was conceived in Mary he was not just the Son of God, but the Son of God and Mary and thus also son of man.
So the true deeper Sonship of Jesus to God is monogenes Sonship.
He comes from God alone.Hi,
Jn 1 tells us about this glorious Son of God through whom the world was made.
He saw his glory on the mountain with Moses and Elijah.Jn 1 10f
“10He was in the world, and (A)the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.11He came to His [a]own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become (B)children of God, even Âto those who believe in His name,
13(D)who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And (E)the Word (F)became flesh, and (G)dwelt among us, and (H)we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of (I)grace and (J)truth.
15John (K)testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, '(L)He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, (M)for He existed before me.'”
Hi ,
This is the Son of God seen before his conception.
This is the one the Jews knew of and realised was greater than men,Prov 30.2f
“2Surely I am more (A)stupid than any man,
And I do not have the understanding of a man.
3Neither have I learned wisdom,
Nor do I have the (B)knowledge of the Holy One.
4Who has Âascended into heaven and descended?
Who has gathered the (D)wind in His fists?
Who has (E)wrapped the waters in His garment?
Who has (F)established all the ends of the earth?
What is His (G)name or His son's name?
Surely you know!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
