The Son of God

[Anonymous]

Hi all…Melissa here again,

I have a few answers if anyone is interested regarding Christ and the Son(s) of God.

Adam was actually more like God's son for he (Adam) was created in his likeness and was the actual image of the Almighty in the flesh.

Regarding Christ, his creation and entrance into our world why is this such an issue? Our Father in heaven is the creator of all flesh and it was that decided that Christ would be both…spirit and flesh. That is why because he was the first. Adam was not the firstborn, was in the image of God, Christ is not. From the very beginning, he was special. The story is quite cool because only the “Holy Sons” knew of his existence.

By the way, this information is not new. You can read it in the Book of Enoch.

Incidently, the Holy Sons are not the jews. Though they may aspire to be like unto them, they are actually the Holy Archangels: Uriel, Raphael, Michael, Gabriel, Raguel, Saraquel and Phanuel.

They are all white in appearance and clothing, walk on fire and powerful in their assigned areas as given to them by the Almighty.

I'll stop there.

With wisdom, peace and blessings to you all

Mel

[NickHassan]

Hi Mel,
The secret of Christ, the firstborn of creation, through whom the angels were created but who was later made less than the angels, and seen by them when he was brought into the world as man[Heb 1-2].
Yes I love Enoch and believe it should be in the canon to as it is quoted in Jude but many here do not share that view.
There are also a delightful story about one of the sons of God in the apocrypha. The book of Tobit details the one of the roles of Raphael among men.
Perhaps more in an angelic thread.

[Woutlaw]

where can I find the book of Enoch

[NickHassan]

Quote (Woutlaw @ June 02 2006,01:15)

where can I find the book of Enoch

Hi Woutlaw,
On the front page of this site under “writings”
The other books there are great too especially “the Shepherd of Hermas”

[Woutlaw]

gracias hermano

[Cubes]

Quote (Cubes @ May 18 2006,01:08)

MAGNIFICATION & FOCUS:  The Son of God, Messiah. The viewpoint that says that: a) the Father is Most High and decrees other beings to be Gods subject to him, justifying his “Most High” status; b) that YHWH is a Father and has a begotten son and was with his Son. c) that the son is mighty God, and is not the Father (Is 9:6); d) that God his Father has given him a kingdom to rule and reign over nations and kings (every knee throughout the far reaches of the universe shall bow to him…) e) that there are two beings in John 1:1

Item “c” has been brought to my attention as incomplete…an oversight on my part, so here is the clarification of it:

The Son is Mighty God, the Everlasting Father… but is NOT the Father.

He is not The Father because he has a Father himself – The Father, our Father in heaven; whereas the Father has no Father but is the Father of all. We also understand that Jesus is considered the everlasting Father in his role as the Second Adam THROUGH whom we have eternal life:

[malcolm ferris]

Quote

Hi all…Melissa here again, I have a few answers if anyone is interested regarding Christ and the Son(s) of God. Adam was actually more like God's son for he (Adam) was created in his likeness and was the actual image of the Almighty in the flesh. Regarding Christ, his creation and entrance into our world why is this such an issue? Our Father in heaven is the creator of all flesh and it was that decided that Christ would be both…spirit and flesh. That is why because he was the first. Adam was not the firstborn, was in the image of God, Christ is not. From the very beginning, he was special. The story is quite cool because only the “Holy Sons” knew of his existence. By the way, this information is not new. You can read it in the Book of Enoch. Incidently, the Holy Sons are not the jews. Though they may aspire to be like unto them, they are actually the Holy Archangels: Uriel, Raphael, Michael, Gabriel, Raguel, Saraquel and Phanuel. They are all white in appearance and clothing, walk on fire and powerful in their assigned areas as given to them by the Almighty. I'll stop there. With wisdom, peace and blessings to you all

HI Melissa

Adam was created as you say in the image and likeness of God, yet made a little lower than angels as to form. But the intention was that he was to become higher than the angels. Of course sin in the garden changed this and brought him to a position yet lower, to be as the brute beast.

PSALMS 8:3-6
When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Man was to be over the work of God's hands, and what we lost through Adam's transgression, is restored to us through Christ's sacrifice, and continued work of mediation.

HEBREWS 2:5-11
For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

In the restored Kingdom of God on earth we shall rule and reign with Christ, our elder brother. Seated with him in his dominion.
Adam (man) was, I believe in a form of flesh that did not have a carnal nature until after the fall in Eden. He was in a form that was able to be tempted, able to fall and suffer the punishment of death, he had a human spirit with the ability to reason, with imagination, conscience, the ability to remember, and with human emotion. Yet this spirit was not carnal until it became polluted through the transgression.

Had he not fallen he would have come to a position wherein he would never die (partaking of the Tree of Life) would no longer be able to be touched by the effects of death, of sin.
Would no longer be in a position to be tempted – but would be as God.
He would have been glorified in his original flesh condition to the status of a son of God with eternal life.

Due to the fall our human spirit gained a carnal nature, the flesh was now a major contributing factor in the motivations and experience of our being. Now man(kind) was affected by the senses of the flesh: see, smell, hear, taste, feel. And in turn the human spirit was also affected we could now reason etc between the Word of God (good) and the words of the enemy (evil).
As such we became in effect lower even than the creatures of earth – for there is not other creature that can be immoral, can murder for pleasure, that destroys the equilibrium of its own environment.
Why is this? One reason I believe is because we are able to impose power over the works of creation, yet we lack the character of Christ which is needed to wield and exercise this power in a proper and fitting fashion. Power without character is satanic and is the lot of mankind, even well intentioned people cannot hope to 'save' the planet from ourselves. Only in the Kingdom of Heaven can mankind hope to achieve the character that Adam lost for us, and to be manifest once more as the sons of God in flesh.
Presently we are sons of God by the promise of His unfailing Word, and by the life of His Spirit in our souls, yet we have this treasure in a weak earthen vessel of flesh that is dead because of the curse upon the earth for Adam's sake.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
1Jn 5.20,
“And we know that the Son of God has come,
and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true;
And we are in Him who is true,
in His Son Jesus Christ”

But if Jesus Christ
is not and
never has been
truly the Son of God
as is necessary to believe if you hold a triune view of God
then our situation would appear much more precarious.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Trinitarians must relegate the most important revelation of the bible, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, who proceeded from and came from God to being a lie. Instead his sonship is only an empty title. c'mon guys. Wake up.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
2 Peter 2.1f
“But false prophets also arose among the people,
just as there will be false prophets among you,
who will secretly introduce destructive heresies,
even denying the Master who bought them,
bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
Many will follw their sensuality,
and because of them the way of truth will be maligned,
and in their greed they will exploit you with false words;
their judgement from long ago is not idle and their destruction is not asleep”

Trinity denies the Master.
The proponents say he is not truly a Son of God,
let alone THE Son of God,
and this is just a mere title for God.

Let the words of God speak.
Let Jesus speak.

Lk 22.20
“..'Are you the Son of God then?'
And he said to them
'Yes, I am.'”

[NickHassan]

Hi e,
So “Son of God “to you is only one of many titles Jesus had but it was an unusual title. It is unusual in that it is not in fact true. He is not a true son of God to you.

There are other sons of God, angels, Jews and even men. Are none of these really sons of God either?

Or if they are why is it that THE son of God is not one but they are?

When we are reborn into the Son and become children of God calling to Him 'ABBA” is that not reality.

If Jesus is not a son of God how can we be? How can he call us his brothers if he is not even a true son? How can we become sons of God in him is he is not one? Does that not make a nonsense of the whole salvation message.

Surely e you can at least accept the oft repeated message of the bible that Jesus is the Son of God?

Useful Faith begins there for us.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Why is it that none who hold the trinity doctrine will admit or disprove that that doctrine denies that Jesus truly is the Son of God? They have agreed that the name is just a title to them but why will no answer this important question? To claim any substance as an honest student of scriptural analysis demands we receive a simple answer here.

[Proclaimer]

In their own words it is a mystery. They are baffled.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Surely if theorists are shown that their speculations oppose
The Spoken words of God
The Written words of God
The Spoken words of Jesus
The written words of the disciples

they will pause and stop preaching falsehoods?

[malcolm ferris]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2006,20:20)

Hi e, So “Son of God “to you is only one of many titles Jesus had but it was an unusual title. It is unusual in that it is not in fact true. He is not a true son of God to you. There are other sons of God, angels, Jews and even men. Are none of these really sons of God either? Or if they are why is it that THE son of God is not one but they are? When we are reborn into the Son and become children of God calling to Him 'ABBA” is that not reality. If Jesus is not a son of God how can we be? How can he call us his brothers if he is not even a true son? How can we become sons of God in him is he is not one? Does that not make a nonsense of the whole salvation message. Surely e you can at least accept the oft repeated message of the bible that Jesus is the Son of God? Useful Faith begins there for us.

Hi Nick
I agree with what you are saying here for the most part.

Could you elaborate on the following please as I am interested to get your take on this.

Quote

There are other sons of God, angels, Jews and even men.

I'm sure the last part was just unintended – Jews and even men.
I'm sure you don't mean that Jews are not men.

What I am interested in finding out more about is the angels bit.

blessings

[Cubes]

Quote (malcolm ferris @ June 09 2006,14:00)

Could you elaborate on the following please as I am interested to get your take on this. Quote There are other sons of God, angels, Jews and even men. I'm sure the last part was just unintended – Jews and even men. I'm sure you don't mean that Jews are not men.

lol!

[NickHassan]

Quote (malcolm ferris @ June 09 2006,09:00)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2006,20:20) Hi e, So “Son of God “to you is only one of many titles Jesus had but it was an unusual title. It is unusual in that it is not in fact true. He is not a true son of God to you. There are other sons of God, angels, Jews and even men. Are none of these really sons of God either? Or if they are why is it that THE son of God is not one but they are? When we are reborn into the Son and become children of God calling to Him 'ABBA” is that not reality. If Jesus is not a son of God how can we be? How can he call us his brothers if he is not even a true son? How can we become sons of God in him is he is not one? Does that not make a nonsense of the whole salvation message. Surely e you can at least accept the oft repeated message of the bible that Jesus is the Son of God? Useful Faith begins there for us. Hi Nick I agree with what you are saying here for the most part. Could you elaborate on the following please as I am interested to get your take on this. Quote There are other sons of God, angels, Jews and even men. I'm sure the last part was just unintended – Jews and even men. I'm sure you don't mean that Jews are not men. What I am interested in finding out more about is the angels bit. blessings

Hi Malcolm,
In different ways there are many sons of God according to scripture. Examples include:
All men are children of God -Acts 17.28f
Sons of Adam are sons of God – Lk 3.38
Israelites are the sons of God – Deut 14.1f
The presumably angelic sons of God seen in Job 1-2

Then there is THE Son of God and the sons of God saved in him.

[malcolm ferris]

Thanks for that Nick

[NickHassan]

Hi,
David took courage and felled the giant with one stone.

We do not seem to be able to find anyone who will deny Jesus Christ really is the Son of God though these are simple prerequesites for belief in the trinity or oneness doctrines.

Why will men not come forward?
Why are men unwilling to bring their doctrines to be tested according to this scriptural light?
Why will they not defend their doctrine against this serious charge?
Are they ashamed of the Son of God?
Are they ashamed to admit they have denied him before God and men?
Are men ashamed to show that there are still willing to hold to this false doctrine despite this obvious fatal flaw?

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Who will deny the Master?
Who will deny Jesus is the Son of God?

[Author]

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