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Hi Maolcolm,
Is there any scripture elewhere in the OT that JTB would know that says the Son of God will baptise in the Spirit?Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 27 2006,10:28) Hi Malcolm,
TRIAL?? …….Trail TRAIL!!
oops – my bad
Sorry bout that I am trying to keep up with you in each of these threads while preparing material for tomorrow, its obvoiusly taking its toll so I may have to leave these threads till later…Hi Malcolm,
I thoroughly enjoy searching for truth too and you are very helpful in this work.Thank you.Hi Malcolm,
Just when I am getting a good read on your theology you write something that leaves me scratching my head in puzzlement again. Can you please do me the favour of answering some 'yes' and 'no' questions, feel free to elaborate if you feel it's required.In your understanding:
- Was the Logos a volitional, self-aware personage 'in the beginning' [in the same sense that the Father was]?
- Was the Logos brought into existence by the Father?
- Did the Logos have an 'active' role in Creation?
- Does the person of Christ have intrinsic deity?
- If the answer to the above q/n was 'no', was it solely a function of that which indelt Him?
- Is the Holy Spirit the Father's personal Spirit?
- Was Jesus indwelt by the Father's Spirit?
- Are true Christians indwelt by the Father's Spirit?
Im not trying to trap you in anything, your answers will clarify some of things you have written….I hope
Kind regards.
All joking aside (where has this sense of humour come from David?), there's nothing surreptitious going on, I'm just trying to decipher your sometimes-confusing theology Malcolm.
Hi Is 1:18
I don't have all the answers, I will answer according to my understanding, and hope I don't raise more questions than answers· Was the Logos a volitional, self-aware personage 'in the beginning' [in the same sense that the Father was]?
He said he had glory with his Father – he had memory – conscience therefore – self-awareness would be a pre-requisite I would think.
· Was the Logos brought into existence by the Father?
God is Word I must say – His Son also is Word, All of His sons are Word sons.
If not then they would not have eternal life, God's own life.· Did the Logos have an 'active' role in Creation?
God indwelt the Son, he was the agent (is that a good word for it) of God for creation. Just as God indwelt the Son to redeem us, he (the Son) was the agent of God for salvation. And he is the tabernacle of God to rule and reign with us in the New Heavens and New Earth.
He is the tabernacle of God.· Does the person of Christ have intrinsic deity?
He is the Son of God, being OF God he has God's life in him. Does that make him God? No – he is the Son of God, we too by his sacrifice are given access to this life as sons of God.
· If the answer to the above q/n was 'no', was it solely a function of that which indelt Him?
God was in Christ creating all things by him.
God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.
God in Christ will also rule and reign with us forever.· Is the Holy Spirit the Father's personal Spirit?
Are you asking is the Holy Spirit and the Father the same person, same God? Yes.
· Was Jesus indwelt by the Father's Spirit?
I think the above should clarify that question
· Are true Christians indwelt by the Father's Spirit?
No we are like Jesus Christ was upon birth (once reborn) born sons of God with His life in us.
His lifestream not the lifesource (person of God)
We can receive a portion of the anointing Spirit of God by the gifts placed in the body, but this is not the fullness of the godhead.
The life in us (lifestream) is not the fullness of godhead (lifesource – the Person Himself)
It is the fullness of his life, the complete life of God to manifest a son.
The natural pattern is the life of an earthly father and son.
The father has his own life to be the person he is.
The son has his fathers life to be not the father but the person that he is by the lifestream.Hi Malcolm,
You are going beyond scripture to make statements about God and the Word and thus replacing simplicity and peace with confusion-in my view.Where is God described as the Word in scripture?
Where is this lifestream in scripture?What of Eph 3.19?
Quote You are going beyond scripture to make statements about God and the Word and thus replacing simplicity and peace with confusion-in my view. In your view perhaps, I am not out to convince you or anyone, or to change your views.
Quote Where is God described as the Word in scripture? Jn 1:1-2 would be the first place that springs to mind.
Quote Where is this lifestream in scripture? This is getting circular and I am not in the mood to repeat what has already been stated.
If you are not convinced so be it, not all things in God's Word are stated in explicit terms so as to preclude the need for revelation. It takes more than a bible, a concordance and logic or intelligence to gain a true understanding of the God of which we speak. As no doubt you know Nick, it takes a personal experience and revelation by His Spirit.
Without which many can logically approach the scriptures and conclude to their own satisfaction that Jesus is not the Son of God but the son of Mary and Joseph, denying the virgin birth (for which there is in fact very little scripture – which one could argue – as some do – could have been inserted to support certain views…)
There is – in fact -little scripture in the OT that directly mentions the son of God. Yet we know it to be unarguable scripture, others by their intellect do not.Quote What of Eph 3.19? Eph 3:19
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.We are told the love of Christ passes knowledge, it surpasses it too, God is past finding out, we can only hope to understand Him in a limited way through the limits He is pleased to confine Himself to.
The first word in the bible used for God is 'Elohim' meaning the strong one bound by an oath. He is pleased to be bound by this oath, the oath of His unchanging Word, for even as the truth of a person is ultimately measured by their trueness to themselves. And this we measure by the word of oath they give of themselves. In other words a man is only as good as his word.
So God declares Himself to be faithful and true, His Word like Him – unchanging, unfailing. He is not a man that He should lie. Ultimately we can only be what we are, as Paul said, I am what I am by the grace of God. If we are sons of God then we will prove true also to His Word and remain faithful despite a battle in the flesh to do so. Why – because that is what shows the character of God, the nature of Him as declared by Him in His own Word.Not one of us could discover a single thing about God ourselves. We can only take the record that He has given of Himself. This record is true as we all know, yet it is not revealed to all men. I do not count myself to have comprehended God, but I believe I have been apprehended by Him, and by His grace grow day by day in the knowledge of our God and Savior.
Hi Malcolm,
Clearly you are already committed to your path and to your teachings and not open to new light on this matter so we can only pass on what the Master said through John;
2Jn 9
“Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.”The response to scripture is entirely over to you.
Quote All joking aside (where has this sense of humour come from David?), there's nothing surreptitious going on, I'm just trying to decipher your sometimes-confusing theology Malcolm. I know. It's just that you said: “I'm not trying to trap you.”
2 John 9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.Amen to that Nick.
That is what the doctrine (or teaching) of Christ is – the One God (Father) who had a Son by whom He (God) made all things, by whom He (God) saves the lost, by whom He (God) will judge all, and by whom He (God) will rule and reign in the glorious Kingdom to come.I CORINTHIANS 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.Quote Clearly you are already committed to your path I think we all need to be comitted to this path don't you?
Quote and to your teachings and not open to new light on this matter If you mean I am not continuing to learn, or that I do not gain insight from others in these discussions I would disagree.
I have seen many things clearer and in a 'new light' as a result of my time on this board.
But (I suspect – like you and others here) I am not about to drop all of my concepts overnight, nor to be convinced by discussion alone…Hi Malcolm,
The path we are committed to is not our own but is written in the Word of God and all we need to know is verifiable by the Word of God. We should never teach beyond what is established in the Word and should always be able to show the path we have walked is written.Hi,
1Jn 4.15
“Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God”
At least we must believe Jesus really is the Son of God .
That is the first evidence that God lives in us, as shown in the response of Peter in Mt 16.16 , as Spirit.
No one can say and really know that 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Spirit.Hello Everyone,
What a wonderful day it is to have discovered and joined your post.
Regarding Jesus being the son of God, it is written in the Book of Enoch that “he (the Elect One) was created before all things and was kept hidden.”
Since the very first day of creation, it was the Almighty and his Elect One.
I saw that one of your previous topics was regarding the trinity doctrine.
An indeed, that is a false teaching. Food for thought: God is the Father, the Lord of the Spirits also known as the “Holy
Spirit” and Christ is his Righteous and Annointed One.The trinity suggests God, Christ and the Holy Spirit. God is the Holy Spirit, he is the “ruach eloheim – holy spirit.”
The Book of Enoch tells us that just as it was the Almighty and his Righteous One in the beginning so will it be the same when Christ returns to the earth.
Incidently, truly he lives. Visit my website at http://www.project21sol4gheh.com and with wisdom, I pray that you will be able to see him.
You will be blessed.
Take care,
Mel SmithProject 21 – Sol4gheh
Hi Mel,
Yes but is the vine the same as the branches?Then is the “finger of God”, which is how Jesus referred to the Spirit, exactly the same as the being?
Yes in that the finger is OF God and does God's work here and must be respected as God Himself.
Ps 33.13
“The Lord looks from heaven;
He sees all the sons of men;
from His dwelling place He looks out on all the inhabitants of the earth”But God IS in heaven.
Hi,
The Son of God remains the stumbling stone.Onesness believers must reject it because they believe Jesus is the Father.
Trinitariians must reject it because they believe Jesus never separated as a being from the Father.They relegate the concept to being a title only.
Then those who do believe it divide as to how it came about.
Some say he was a son only from his begettal in the beginning.
Some say it was only by his conception in Mary.
Some say he was a son in both ways.Which is true?
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