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Hey Nick. I'm glad.
It's just, before you said to me:
Quote You are twisting scripture to justify your doctrines. It would be great to see a little openmindedness and not just doctrinal justification from you.
What I was giving you wasn't “doctrinal justification,” but the truth.
May I ask why you changed your mind? What scripture or thought led you to “learn” this?
Hi david,
We know from Lk 16.19f that Hades and Sheol are not truly interchangeable. Though Peter uses Hades in his quote of Ps 16 what he said is still true. Jesus was not abandoned either to Hades or the more comprehensive word, Sheol.Both are words for the resting place in the earth of those awaiting judgement, though Hades seems to be a place of punishment even while the souls of men are on remand.
I learn by the work of the Spirit through the Word He wrote. How about you?
You base this belief soley on YOUR understanding of one illustration–a parable.
The Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, which served as Scripture for the Greek speaking Jews and was used extensively down to the time of Jesus and his apostles–it uses the word “Hades” 73 times, employing it 60 times to translate the Hebrew word she´ohl´(sheol).Luke, the divinely inspired writer of Acts, definitely showed Hades to be the Greek equivalent of Sheol when he translated Peter’s quotation from Psalm 16:10. (Ac 2:27)
Inversely, nine modern Hebrew translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures use the word “Sheol” to translate Hades at Revelation 20:13, 14.Quote Hades seems to be a place of punishment
The word “seems” makes you sound awefully unsure. Is it a place of punishment? It “seems” to be, you say. But you only have your one illustration, which you interpret that way, despite all other evidence. You say we have to pull the tent pegs around this illustration to make everything fit. I say it doesn't seeem to fit, because you are interpreting it to fit your beliefs.Anyway, this thread is about Jonah. And now that you've changed your thinking on Jonah being dead, we could continue this conversation in the “soul” thread if you like. But, we've already had this conversation at length. So whatever you like.
david.
Quote (david @ April 13 2006,00:40) Hey Nick. I'm glad. It's just, before you said to me:
Quote You are twisting scripture to justify your doctrines. It would be great to see a little openmindedness and not just doctrinal justification from you.
What I was giving you wasn't “doctrinal justification,” but the truth.
May I ask why you changed your mind? What scripture or thought led you to “learn” this?
Hi david,
Having reread your post in the light of later insights I would now say it was thoughtful, well researched and written, and my response was quite inappropriate. I am sorry for any offense caused.Jon 1:17 Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Was Jonah in the sea monsters belly one day and two nights. That's what your Pope has taught you among other false doctrines.
Yes Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster. But then was spewed out and lived. Just as Jesus was three days and three nights in the heart of the earth and was resurrested. Or are these scriptures lieing and your Pope knows better that God. Believe it or not most people think so!
Hi,
Matt12
38Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
So one scriptural event that had occured many years before is given as a SIGN
So such events can be as a SIGN for future events.
Preterism does not allow for this.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 04 2005,08:43) Hi,
Jesus said in Matt 12.39
“..An evil generation craves for a sign;and yet no sign shall be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as Jonah was three days in the belly of the sea monster, so shall the Son of man be three days in the heart of the earth”So Jonah says in Jon 2.2-6 that he went to the pit or to sheol.
Yet scripture says he was in the belly of the fish in Jon 1.1, the heart of the seas in Jon 2.3 and the roots of the mountains in Jon 2.6.
Does this mean that sheol is in the sea, or the pit in a sea monster?
Is scripture broken because of these inconsistencies? No
It is only possible to grasp this matter if it is said that Jonah died. The body of Jonah was in the sea monster [outer man] and the soul of Jonah[inner man], the being of Jonah went to sheol as dead men do.
The same with Jesus who did die and whose body lay in the tomb on the surface of the earth while his being was in the belly of the earth making proclamation to those in the bosom of Abraham.[1 Peter 3.18-20]
We know Jonah did not die as he said in the belly:Jonah 2 (King James Version)
Jonah 2
1Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,2And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
3For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
4Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.
5The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
6I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
and then we read this:
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Psalm 16:9-11For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Matthew 12:39-41Jonah was alive in the belly of the whale hence he did not see corruption as death is corruption of the body.
Hi BD,
As with Jesus the gates of sheol did not hold him.
God resurrected him as a sign to show Jesus is His Son.[rom1]Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 17 2009,06:29) Hi BD,
No he died and went to Sheol.
No Nick…Jonah was alive…he was speaking metaphorically…you should research the original hebrew used in this account….
Psalm 116:3 says, “The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of Sheol got hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.” Also, “For great [is] thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest Sheol.( Psalm 86:13)
Sorry for the multiple posts but i can't edit
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