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Hi,
Jesus said in Matt 12.39
“..An evil generation craves for a sign;and yet no sign shall be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as Jonah was three days in the belly of the sea monster, so shall the Son of man be three days in the heart of the earth”So Jonah says in Jon 2.2-6 that he went to the pit or to sheol.
Yet scripture says he was in the belly of the fish in Jon 1.1, the heart of the seas in Jon 2.3 and the roots of the mountains in Jon 2.6.
Does this mean that sheol is in the sea, or the pit in a sea monster?
Is scripture broken because of these inconsistencies? No
It is only possible to grasp this matter if it is said that Jonah died. The body of Jonah was in the sea monster [outer man] and the soul of Jonah[inner man], the being of Jonah went to sheol as dead men do.
The same with Jesus who did die and whose body lay in the tomb on the surface of the earth while his being was in the belly of the earth making proclamation to those in the bosom of Abraham.[1 Peter 3.18-20]
While the Greek teaching of the immortality of the human soul infiltrated Jewish religious thinking in later centuries, the Bible record shows that Sheol refers to mankind’s common grave as a place where there is no consciousness. (Ec 9:4-6, 10) Those in Sheol neither praise God nor mention him. (Ps 6:4, 5; Isa 38:17-19)
Throughout the inspired Scriptures, Sheol is continually associated with death and not life. (1Sa 2:6; 2Sa 22:6; Ps 18:4, 5; 49:7-10, 14, 15; 88:2-6; 89:48; Isa 28:15-18; also compare Ps 116:3, 7-10 with 2Co 4:13, 14.)Quote Does this mean that sheol is in the sea, or the pit in a sea monster? For Jonah, the belly of the fish was to become his grave, his pit, his hell (sheol). Sheol is the common grave of mankind. For Jonah, his death was going to be in that fish, so of course he could say what he did.
In the account about Jonah, it is stated that “Jonah prayed to Jehovah his God from the inward parts of the fish and said: ‘Out of my distress I called out to Jehovah, and he proceeded to answer me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried for help. You heard my voice.’” (Jon 2:1, 2) Therefore, Jonah was comparing the inside of the fish to Sheol. He was as good as dead inside the fish, but Jehovah brought up his life from the pit, or Sheol, by preserving him alive and having him disgorged.—Jon 2:6; compare Ps 30:3.
Jesus compared Jonah’s being in the belly of the fish with what would happen in his own case, saying: “For just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.” (Mt 12:40) Although Jesus did not here use the word “Sheol” (Hades), the apostle Peter did use the word “Hades” when referring to Jesus’ death and resurrection.—Ac 2:27.
Regarding the word “Sheol,” Brynmor F. Price and Eugene A. Nida noted: “The word occurs often in the Psalms and in the book of Job to refer to the place to which all dead people go. It is represented as a dark place, in which there is no activity worthy of the name. There are no moral distinctions there, so ‘hell’ (KJV) is not a suitable translation, since that suggests a contrast with ‘heaven’ as the dwelling-place of the righteous after death. In a sense, ‘the grave’ in a generic sense is a near equivalent, except that Sheol is more a mass grave in which all the dead dwell together. . . . The use of this particular imagery may have been considered suitable here [in Jonah 2:2] in view of Jonah’s imprisonment in the interior of the fish.”—A Translators Handbook on the Book of Jonah, 1978, p. 37.
Hi david,
So sheol is in the belly of a fish?
No.
You are twisting scripture to justify your doctrines.It would be great to see a little openmindedness and not just doctrinal justification from you.
If I say what is true, why argue? What does it matter where it comes from?
You say:
“So sheol is in the belly of a fish? No.”No, sheol isn't specifically in the belly of a fish. But for Jonah, the belly of that fish was about to become his grave (sheol).
It's not ME WHO IS SAYING THIS Nick.
“Jonah PRAYED to Jehovah his God FROM THE INWARD PARTS OF THE FISH and said: ‘Out of my distress I called out to Jehovah, and he proceeded to answer me. OUT OF THE BELLY OF SHEOL I cried for help. You heard my voice.’” (Jon 2:1, 2)
Here, “the inward parts of the fish” are also referred to as “the belly of sheol.”
Of course, sheol doesn't literally have a belly, but for Jonah, the fishes belly was to become sheol for him.No, he didn't die, but it was like he was lying in his grave. And the dirt was being poured on. He was as good as dead.
The belly of sheol, was the belly of the fish. It was to be his watery grave.Hi ,
So who else has been “to sheol” without dying? Or was he only”half dead”.Since sheol is the home of the dead how can he have been there without dying?
If he did die how come he was still able to call out to God and be heard?
Does your Bible not say?
“Jonah PRAYED to Jehovah his God FROM THE INWARD PARTS OF THE FISH and said: ‘Out of my distress I called out to Jehovah, and he proceeded to answer me. OUT OF THE BELLY OF SHEOL I cried for help. You heard my voice.’” (Jon 2:1, 2)
It is JONAH who called the belly of the fish, the belly of sheol. This obviously does not mean fish=sheol or that the inside of a fish is a firey torment.
I believe I spent several pages in the hades thread showing that sheol/hades means “common grave of mankind.”
Now it's true, that people that aren't alive don't go to the grave. But here, Jonah could poetically say that he was “in the belly of sheol,” because he was already lying in his grave. He wasn't dead yet. He wasn't really in sheol, but it seemed that the belly of the fish was to be his grave. And since sheol/hades over and over and over again means the common grave of mankind in the Bible, what JONAH said makes sence, although he may have been been saying it somewhat poetically.“To the bottoms of the mountains I went down [inside the fish]. As for the earth, its bars [like those of a grave] were upon me for time indefinite. But out of the pit you proceeded to bring up my life [on the third day], O Jehovah my God.”—Jonah 2:6; compare Psalm 30:3.
In the account about Jonah, it is stated that “Jonah prayed to Jehovah his God from the inward parts of the fish and said: ‘Out of my distress I called out to Jehovah, and he proceeded to answer me. Out of the belly of Sheol I cried for help. You heard my voice.’” (Jon 2:1, 2) Therefore, Jonah was comparing the inside of the fish to Sheol. He was as good as dead inside the fish, but Jehovah brought up his life from the pit, or Sheol, by preserving him alive and having him disgorged.—Jon 2:6; compare Ps 30:3.
Jesus compared Jonah’s being in the belly of the fish with what would happen in his own case, saying: “For just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.” (Mt 12:40) Although Jesus did not here use the word “Sheol” (Hades), the apostle Peter did use the word “Hades” when referring to Jesus’ death and resurrection.—Ac 2:27.
Regarding the word “Sheol,” Brynmor F. Price and Eugene A. Nida noted: “The word occurs often in the Psalms and in the book of Job to refer to the place to which all dead people go. It is represented as a dark place, in which there is no activity worthy of the name. There are no moral distinctions there, so ‘hell’ (KJV) is not a suitable translation, since that suggests a contrast with ‘heaven’ as the dwelling-place of the righteous after death. In a sense, ‘the grave’ in a generic sense is a near equivalent, except that Sheol is more a mass grave in which all the dead dwell together. . . . The use of this particular imagery may have been considered suitable here [in Jonah 2:2] in view of Jonah’s imprisonment in the interior of the fish.”—A Translators Handbook on the Book of Jonah, 1978, p. 37.
Hi david,
So you say Jonah did not die. Do we know of any other human being who has been swallowed by a fish and not died? Are there any fish that contain air sufficient for a man to breathe for three days and not die? Imagine a whale swallowing a man. Certainly it would not be able to chew him or digest him. But A whale dives to tremendous depths [to the roots of the mountains] and the pressuse itself would kill a man.A whale breathes air but only every 20mins or so so the air inhaled would become oxygen deficient such as would kill a man.
I think it is obvious that except for the miracle of God no man would survive three days in the belly of a fish.
Now that makes no statement about when he prayed. He could have prayed the instant he was swallowed and then become unconscious and died. Then he could have gone to sheol, as men's souls do, but then his prayer was answered and resurrected and he was spewed up again on dry land by the fish.
It makes more sense to me.“Jehovah appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah.” (Jonah 1:17)
Jehovah's hand was involved. Do not limit him.The sperm whale is fully capable of swallowing a man whole. So is the great white shark. The Bible, though, simply states: “Jehovah appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah.” (Jonah 1:17) The kind of fish is not specified. It cannot be determined with certainty whether it was a sperm whale, a great white shark, or some other unidentified sea creature.
Because of the supernatural character of many events mentioned in the book of Jonah, it has often been attacked by Bible critics. The raising of the tempestuous wind and its quick cessation, the fish swallowing Jonah and three days later vomiting the prophet out unharmed, and the sudden growth and death of a gourd plant have all been labeled unhistorical because such things do not happen today. This contention might have a basis if the book of Jonah claimed that they were ordinary occurrences back then. But it does not do so. It relates events in the life of one who was specially commissioned by God. Therefore, those maintaining that these things simply could not have happened must deny either the existence of God or his ability to affect natural forces and plant, animal, and human life in a special way for his purpose.—See Mt 19:26.
The sperm whale is fully capable of swallowing a man whole. So is the great white shark. The Bible, though, simply states: “Jehovah appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah.” (Jonah 1:17) The kind of fish is not specified. It cannot be determined with certainty whether it was a sperm whale, a great white shark, or some other unidentified sea creature.
Interestingly, there is evidence that the seaport of Joppa anciently was a headquarters for whalers. On the other hand, it is possible that the great white shark was the fish that swallowed Jonah. One of these that was caught in 1939 contained two whole 2-m-long (6 ft) sharks in its stomach—each about the size of a man. And the great white sharks have roamed all the seas, including the Mediterranean. (Australian Zoological Handbook, The Fishes of Australia, by G. P. Whitley, Sydney, 1940, Part 1—The Sharks, p. 125; The Natural History of Sharks, by R. H. Backus and T. H. Lineaweaver III, 1970, pp. 111, 113) It should be noted, however, that the Bible simply states: “Jehovah appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah,” the kind of fish not being specified. (Jon 1:17) So it cannot be determined just what “fish” might have been involved. In fact, man’s knowledge of the creatures inhabiting the seas and oceans is rather incomplete. Noted the magazine Scientific American (September 1969, p. 162): “As it has in the past, further exploration of the abyssal realm will undoubtedly reveal undescribed creatures including members of groups thought long extinct.”
National Geographic (December 1992) offered another possibility—the whale shark. The largest known shark, it can grow to 70 feet [20 m] in length and weigh 70 tons.
“The whale shark’s unusual digestive anatomy lends itself to Jonah stories. It is easy to imagine yourself being inadvertently sucked into a whale shark’s mouth, which is huge . . . The cavernous mouth of even a small adult whale shark could easily accommodate a pair of Jonahs.”
The whale shark feeds on tiny plankton and krill, which “wash down through the esophagus into the immense and elastic banquet hall that is the cardiac stomach.” Yet, how could anyone get out? National Geographic says: “Sharks have a nonviolent way of getting rid of large objects of dubious digestibility they swallow . . . A shark can slowly empty its cardiac stomach by turning it inside out and pushing it through the mouth. . . . So, you could come gliding out on a mucus-covered carpet, slimier but perhaps wiser for the experience.”
Today whale sharks are not found in the Mediterranean, though they have been found as far north as New York City. Were they present in the Mediterranean in Jonah’s time? Who can say?
Maybe we should just review what the experience of Jonah was, in context.
The Israelite prophet Jonah is commanded by Jehovah God to go to the city of Nineveh and warn its people about their doom because of their wickedness. But instead of obeying, Jonah goes in the opposite direction, taking a boat sailing to Spain. Jehovah causes a great storm to come up, and the mariners cast lots to find out who could be responsible for the storm. The lot falls on Jonah. He confesses his guilt and asks them to hurl him overboard, assuring them that the storm will then abate. Reluctantly they comply and, sure enough, the storm subsides.But Jonah does not drown. Jehovah has work for him to do and so has prepared a huge fish, which swallows him. After three days it vomits him up on dry land. Again Jonah receives the commission to warn the Ninevites. This time he obeys, goes to Nineveh and warns its inhabitants that in forty days they will be destroyed because of their wickedness.
david.
Quote (david @ Nov. 07 2005,16:37) “Jehovah appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah.” (Jonah 1:17)
Jehovah's hand was involved. Do not limit him.
Hi Guys,Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
3 days=12 hours of light
3nights=12 hours of darknessHow can anyone get 3 days nad 3 nights from Friday at 6pm to Sunday morning.
What does this mean? Well for one it means Friday was not so good.
Addressing athiest Diderot before the court of Catherine the Great, Euler solemnly said: “Sir, (a + bn) / n = x, hence God exists. Reply!”
Since Diderot was not mathematically sophisticated, he did not know what to say. He was laughed out of St. Petersburg.I'm not that great at math.
Are you asking that question because Sunday is supposed to be Easter?Hi david,
So it was all a miarcle? We only have Jonah's experiences to go on and he said he was;
Thrown overboard
Swallowed by a fish.
Prayed.
Went to Sheol or the pit.
Prayed
Was spewed up by the fish on land three days later alive.To say from this he lived three days in a fish and never died seems far fetched.
Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 07 2005,17:10) Quote (david @ Nov. 07 2005,16:37) “Jehovah appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah.” (Jonah 1:17)
Jehovah's hand was involved. Do not limit him.
Hi Guys,Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
3 days=12 hours of light
3nights=12 hours of darknessHow can anyone get 3 days nad 3 nights from Friday at 6pm to Sunday morning.
What does this mean? Well for one it means Friday was not so good.
That should be 3×12 daylight and 3×12 darkness. But you get the drift.
Quote Hi david,
So it was all a miarcle? We only have Jonah's experiences to go on and he said he was;
Thrown overboard
Swallowed by a fish.
Prayed.
Went to Sheol or the pit.
Prayed
Was spewed up by the fish on land three days later alive.To say from this he lived three days in a fish and never died seems far fetched.
No, Jehovah caused the wind, the Bible says.
Jehovah caused the fish to swallow Jonah, the Bible says.
These things didn't just happen.
I suppose if they just happened, it would be easier to take that view. But God was behind these things, as the Bible says.david
From Jonah’s experience we learn that it is the course of wisdom for us to obey Jehovah’s commands. Also, we are helped to appreciate more fully that it is Jehovah’s will for us to extend mercy to others, even as he did.
Quote (david @ Nov. 07 2005,16:55) The sperm whale is fully capable of swallowing a man whole. So is the great white shark. The Bible, though, simply states: “Jehovah appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah.” (Jonah 1:17) The kind of fish is not specified. It cannot be determined with certainty whether it was a sperm whale, a great white shark, or some other unidentified sea creature. Interestingly, there is evidence that the seaport of Joppa anciently was a headquarters for whalers. On the other hand, it is possible that the great white shark was the fish that swallowed Jonah. One of these that was caught in 1939 contained two whole 2-m-long (6 ft) sharks in its stomach—each about the size of a man. And the great white sharks have roamed all the seas, including the Mediterranean. (Australian Zoological Handbook, The Fishes of Australia, by G. P. Whitley, Sydney, 1940, Part 1—The Sharks, p. 125; The Natural History of Sharks, by R. H. Backus and T. H. Lineaweaver III, 1970, pp. 111, 113) It should be noted, however, that the Bible simply states: “Jehovah appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah,” the kind of fish not being specified. (Jon 1:17) So it cannot be determined just what “fish” might have been involved. In fact, man’s knowledge of the creatures inhabiting the seas and oceans is rather incomplete. Noted the magazine Scientific American (September 1969, p. 162): “As it has in the past, further exploration of the abyssal realm will undoubtedly reveal undescribed creatures including members of groups thought long extinct.”
National Geographic (December 1992) offered another possibility—the whale shark. The largest known shark, it can grow to 70 feet [20 m] in length and weigh 70 tons.
“The whale shark’s unusual digestive anatomy lends itself to Jonah stories. It is easy to imagine yourself being inadvertently sucked into a whale shark’s mouth, which is huge . . . The cavernous mouth of even a small adult whale shark could easily accommodate a pair of Jonahs.”
The whale shark feeds on tiny plankton and krill, which “wash down through the esophagus into the immense and elastic banquet hall that is the cardiac stomach.” Yet, how could anyone get out? National Geographic says: “Sharks have a nonviolent way of getting rid of large objects of dubious digestibility they swallow . . . A shark can slowly empty its cardiac stomach by turning it inside out and pushing it through the mouth. . . . So, you could come gliding out on a mucus-covered carpet, slimier but perhaps wiser for the experience.”
Today whale sharks are not found in the Mediterranean, though they have been found as far north as New York City. Were they present in the Mediterranean in Jonah’s time? Who can say?
Maybe we should just review what the experience of Jonah was, in context.
The Israelite prophet Jonah is commanded by Jehovah God to go to the city of Nineveh and warn its people about their doom because of their wickedness. But instead of obeying, Jonah goes in the opposite direction, taking a boat sailing to Spain. Jehovah causes a great storm to come up, and the mariners cast lots to find out who could be responsible for the storm. The lot falls on Jonah. He confesses his guilt and asks them to hurl him overboard, assuring them that the storm will then abate. Reluctantly they comply and, sure enough, the storm subsides.But Jonah does not drown. Jehovah has work for him to do and so has prepared a huge fish, which swallows him. After three days it vomits him up on dry land. Again Jonah receives the commission to warn the Ninevites. This time he obeys, goes to Nineveh and warns its inhabitants that in forty days they will be destroyed because of their wickedness.
david.
Hi david,
The question is; Can men survive three days in the belly of a whale? the short answer is no. The answer most seem to give is that he did by a miracle. But somehow that did not get written. It is more likely written as a resurrection from death, a sign for the resurrection of Jesus.Whenever Jehovah acts, it is a miracle.
Jehovah caused the storm, the Bible says.
Jehovah caused the fish to swallow Jonah, the Bible says.
Can you bring about a windstorm, or cause a man to be swallowed by a fish Nick? These were acts of God.
Since these actions, the Bible tells us were the result of Jehovah's hands, why could Jehovah not keep him alive in the fish? Was killing Jonah Jehovah's plan? What's the chance of being swallowed by a large fish and making it out ok? Clearly, Jehovah was at work throughout this whole experience, from beginning to end.
Throughout the inspired Scriptures, Sheol is continually associated with death and not life. (1Sa 2:6; 2Sa 22:6; Ps 18:4, 5; 49:7-10, 14, 15; 88:2-6; 89:48; Isa 28:15-18; also compare Ps 116:3, 7-10 with 2Co 4:13, 14.) It is spoken of as “the land of darkness” (Job 10:21) and a place of silence. (Ps 115:17)
Sheol is gravedom, the common grave of mankind. For Jonah, as I've said before, the belly of the fish was to become “the belly of sheol” for him. It was his grave. And although usually dead people are put in graves, he found himself in a most unusual situation. For him to compare the belly of the fish to sheol, calling it the “belly” of sheol, makes perfect sense.david.
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