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Hi,I did read the Shepherd of Hermas as well,but it has been a long time ago. Is there something specific you want to discuss Shimmer? God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed, there's a part in it about the son of God, but it's different, so I plan to read it again over the next week,
Also available here:
Here's the part about the Holy Spirit and the Son of God,
Parable/Similitude V
CHAPTER II.
“Hear the similitude which I am about to narrate to you relative to fasting. A certain man had a field and many slaves, and he planted a certain part of the field with a vineyard, and selecting a faithful and beloved and much valued slave, he called him to him, and said, 'Take this vineyard which I have planted, and stake it until I come, and do nothing else to the vineyard; and attend to this order of mine, and you shall receive your freedom from me.' And the master of the slave departed to a foreign country.
And when he was gone, the slave took and staked the vineyard; and when he had finished the staking of the vines, he saw that the vineyard was full of weeds. He then reflected, saying, 'I have kept this order of my master: I will dig up the rest of this vineyard, and it will be more beautiful when dug up; and being free of weeds, it will yield more fruit, not being choked by them.' He took, therefore, and dug up the vineyard, and rooted out all the weeds that were in it. And that vineyard became very beautiful and fruitful, Having no weeds to choke it.
And after a certain time the master of the slave and of the field returned, and entered into the vineyard. And seeing that the vines were suitably supported on stakes, and the ground, moreover, dug up, and all the weeds rooted out, and the vines fruitful, he was greatly pleased with the work of his slave. And calling his beloved son who was his heir, and his friends who were his councillors, he told them what orders he had given his slave, and what he had found performed. And they rejoiced along with the slave at the testimony which his master bore to him. And he said to them, 'I promised this slave freedom if he obeyed the command which I gave him; and he has kept my command, and done besides a good work to the vineyard, and has pleased me exceedingly. In return, therefore, for the work which he has done, I wish to make him co-heir with my son, because, having good thoughts, he did not neglect them, but carried them out.' With this resolution of the master his son and friends were well pleased, viz., that the slave should be co-heir with the son.
After a few days the master made a feast, and sent to his slave many dishes from his table. And the slave receiving the dishes that were sent him from his master, took of them what was sufficient for himself, and distributed the rest among his fellow-slaves. And his fellow-slaves rejoiced to receive the dishes, and began to pray for him, that he might find still greater favour with his master for having so treated them. His master heard all these things that were done, and was again greatly pleased with his conduct. And the master again calling; together his friends and his son, reported to them the slave's proceeding with regard to the dishes which he had sent him. And they were still more satisfied that the slave should become co-heir with his son.”
CHAPTER III.
I said to him, “Sir, I do not see the meaning of these similitudes, nor am I able to comprehend them, unless you explain them to me.” “I will explain them all to you,” he said, “and whatever I shall mention in the course of our conversations I will show you. [Keep the commandments of the Lord, and you will be approved, and inscribed amongst the number of those who observe His commands.] And if you do any good beyond what is commanded by God, you will gain for yourself more abundant glory, and will be more honoured by God than you would otherwise be. If, therefore, in keeping the commandments of God, you do, in addition, these services, you will have joy if you observe them according to my command.”
I said to him, “Sir, whatsoever you enjoin upon me I will observe, for I know that you are with me.” “I will be with you,” he replied, “because you have such a desire for doing good; and I will be with all those,” he added, “who have such a desire. This fasting,” he continued, “is very good, provided the commandments of the Lord be observed. Thus, then, shall you observe the fasting which you intend to keep. First of all, be on your guard against every evil word, and every evil desire, and purify your heart from all the vanities of this world. If you guard against these things, your fasting will be perfect. And you will do also as follows.
Having fulfilled what is written, in the day on which you fast you will taste nothing but bread and water; and having reckoned up the price of the dishes of that day which you intended to have eaten, you will give it to a widow, or an orphan, or to some person in want, and thus you will exhibit humility of mind, so that he who has received benefit from your humility may fill his own soul, and pray for you to the Lord. If you observe fasting, as I have commanded you, your sacrifice will be acceptable to God, and this fasting will be written down; and the service thus performed is noble, and sacred, and acceptable to the Lord. These things, therefore, shall you thus observe with your children, and all your house, and in observing them you will be blessed; and as many as hear these words and observe them shall be blessed; and whatsoever they ask of the Lord they shall receive.”
CHAPTER IV.
I prayed him much that he would explain to me the similitude of the field, and of the master of the vineyard, and of the slave who staked the vineyard, and of the sakes, and of the weeds that were plucked out of the vineyard, and of the son, and of the friends who were fellow-councillors, for I knew that all these things were a kind of parable. And he answered me, and said, “You are exceedingly persistent with your questions. You ought not,” he continued, “to ask any questions at all; for if it is needful to explain anything, it will be made known to you.” I said to him “Sir whatsoever you show me, and do not explain, I shall have seen to no purpose, not understanding its meaning. In like manner, also, if you speak parables to me, and do not unfold them, I shall have heard your words in vain.” And he answered me again, saying, “Every one who is the servant of God, and has his Lord in his heart, asks of Him understanding, and receives it, and opens up every parable; and the words of the Lord become known to him which are spoken in parables? But those who are weak and slothful in prayer, hesitate to ask anything from the Lord; but the Lord is full of compassion, and gives without fail to all who ask Him. But you, having been strengthened by the holy Angel, and having obtained from Him such intercession, and not being slothful, why do not you ask of the Lord understanding, and receive it from Him?” I said to him, “Sir, having you with me, I am necessitated to ask questions of you, for you show me all things, and converse with me; but if I were to see or hear these things without you, I would then ask the Lord to explain them.”
CHAPTER V.
“I said to you a little ago,” he answered, “that you were cunning and obstinate in asking explanations of the parables; but since you are so persistent, I shall unfold to you the meaning of the similitudes of the field, and of all the others that follow, that you may make them known to every one. Hear now,” he said, “and understand them. The field is this world; and the Lord of the field is He who created, and perfected, and strengthened all things; [and the son is the Holy Spirit; ] and the slave is the Son of God; and the vines are this people, whom He Himself planted; and the stakes are the holy angels of the Lord, who keep His people together; and the weeds that were plucked out of the vineyard are the iniquities of God's servants; and the dishes which He sent Him from His able are the commandments which He gave His people through His Son; and the friends and fellow-councillors are the holy angels who were first created; and the Master's absence from home is the time that remains until His appearing.” I said to him,
“Sir, all these are great, and marvellous, and glorious things. Could I, therefore,” I continued, “understand them? No, nor could any other man, even if exceedingly wise. Moreover,” I added, “explain to me what I am about to ask you.” “Say what you wish,” he replied. “Why, sir,” I asked, “is the Son of God in the parable in the form of a slave?”CHAPTER VI.
“Hear,” he answered: “the Son of God is not in the form of a slave, but in great power and might.” “How so, sir?” I said; “I do not understand.” “Because,” he answered, “God planted the vineyard, that is to say, He created the people, and gave them to His Son; and the Son appointed His angels over them to keep them; and He Himself purged away their sins, having suffered many trials and undergone many labours, for no one is able to dig without labour and toil. He Himself, then, having purged away the sins of the people, showed them the paths of life by giving them the law which He received from His Father. [You see,” he said, “that He is the Lord of the people, having received all authority from His Father. ] And why the Lord took His Son as councillor, and the glorious angels, regarding the heirship of the slave, listen. The holy, pre-existent Spirit, that created every creature, God made to dwell in flesh, which He chose. This flesh, accordingly, in which the Holy Spirit dwelt, was nobly subject to that Spirit, walking religiously and chastely, in no respect defiling the Spirit; and accordingly, after living excellently and purely, and after labouring and co-operating with the Spirit, and having in everything acted vigorously and courageously along with the Holy Spirit, He assumed it as a partner with it. For this conduct of the flesh pleased Him, because it was not defiled on the earth while having the Holy Spirit. He took, therefore, as fellow-councillors His Son and the glorious angels, in order that this flesh, which had been subject to the body without a fault, might have some place of tabernacle, and that it might not appear that the reward [of its servitude had been lost ], for the flesh that has been found without spot or defilement, in which the Holy Spirit dwelt, [will receive a reward ]. You have now the explanation of this parable also.”
CHAPTER VII.
“I rejoice, sir,” I said, “to hear this explanation.” “Hear,” again he replied: “Keep this flesh pure and stainless, that the Spirit which inhabits it may bear witness to it, and your flesh may be justified. See that the thought never arise in your mind that this flesh of yours is corruptible, and you misuse it by any act of defilement. If you defile your flesh, you will also defile the Holy Spirit; and if you defile your flesh [and spirit], you will not live.” “And if any one, sir,” I said, “has been hitherto ignorant, before he heard these words, how can such man be saved who has defiled his flesh?” “Respecting former sins of ignorance,” he said, “God alone is able to heal them, for to Him belongs all power. [But be On your guard now, and the all-powerful and compassionate God will heal former transgressions ], if for the time to come you defile not your body nor your spirit; for both are common, and cannot be defiled, the one without the other: keep both therefore pure, and you will live unto God.”
How I understand it,
The field is the world
The Lord of the world is He who created, and perfected, and strengthened all things
The son is the Holy Spirit
The son takes the form of a slave (who is Lord of the people, having received all Authority from His Father)
The vines are people whom He himself planted
The stakes are the Holy Angels
The weed's plucked out are the iniquities of God's servants
The dishes which he sent are the commandments given out through the Son
The friends and fellow councilors are the holy angels who were first created
The Master's absence is the time remaining until His appearingGod created the people
And gave them to His Son
The Son appointed Angels over them to keep them
The Son himself purged away their sins having suffered many trails and labours and showing them the paths by giving them the law which He received from His FatherGod made the son who is the Holy Spirit dwell in flesh, which He chose
The flesh was subject to the Holy Spirit
The flesh laboured and co-operated with the Spirit
The flesh walked religiously, chastely, excellently, purely,
The flesh was found without spot or defilement
The flesh for reward was made co-heir with the son.Hi Shimmer,
I'm having trouble finding what you Posted.
My book of The Shepherd of Hermas has three parts, they are…
Visions 1, 2, 3, & 4
Commands: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 11 & 12
Similitude's: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 & 10
But I can't find what you Posted; could you be more specific as to what part you you Posted from?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Ed,
I used my link, I prefer the translation which is easier to read,
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd.html
Go down about halfway past the commandments, to the third book, similtudes, to the 5th similtude,
Hi Shimmer,
OK I found some of it now.
The first Paragraph you Posted is from Book #3 Similitude's…
Similitude 5:8-10
The second Paragraph is…
Similitude 5:11-13
The third Paragraph is
Similitude 5:14-18
If you would have listed them as such I would have had no trouble finding them.
Which Part do you want to discuss first?
We cannot discuss it all at once as there are many points here.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd, the Holy Spirit is the Son of God
The Son of God came to dwell in a chosen man Jesus
Jesus became co-heir with the Son of God.
Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 31 2010,23:36) Ed, the Holy Spirit is the Son of God The Son of God came to dwell in a chosen man Jesus
Jesus became co-heir with the Son of God.
Hi Shimmer,This book was voted out as being Biblical Canon; Canon is considered authoritative from God.
The link you have provided along with the link here and my copy are all slightly
different in their wording; three different versions of the same book series.I prefer my copy as it is contained in: “The Lost Books of The Bible”,
which consists of many non-Canonical early Church writings such as…Clement I and II, Barnabus, Polycarp, Laodiceans, The lost Gospel of Peter and many more!
This book presents a 'false' truth about the “HolySpirit”, because the…
HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ! (Click Here) (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgI think it was this,
Sixth Commandment
HOW TO RECOGNISE THE TWO SPIRITS ATTENDANT ON EACH MAN,
AND HOW TO DISTINGUISH THE SUGGESTIONS OF THE ONE FROM THOSE OF THE OTHER.CHAPTER I.
“I gave you,” he said, “directions in the first commandment to attend to faith, and fear, and self-restraint.” “Even so, sir,” said I. And he said, “Now I wish to show you the powers of these, that you may know what power each possesses. For their powers are double, and have relation alike to the righteous and the unrighteous. Trust you, therefore, the righteous, but put no trust in the unrighteous. For the path of righteousness is straight, but that of unrighteousness is crooked. But walk in the straight and even way, and mind not the crooked. For the crooked path has no roads, but has many pathless places and stumbling-blocks in it, and it is rough and thorny. It is injurious to those who walk therein. But they who walk in the straight road walk evenly without stumbling, because it is neither rough nor thorny. You see, then, that it is better to walk in this road.” “I wish to go by this road,” said I. “You will go by it,” said he; “and whoever turns to the Lord with all his heart will walk in it.”
CHAPTER II.
“Hear now,” said he, “in regard to faith. There are two angels with a man–one of righteousness, and the other of iniquity.” And I said to him, “How, sir, am I to know the powers of these, for both angels dwell with me?” “Hear,” said he, and “understand them. The angel of righteousness is gentle and modest, meek and peaceful. When, therefore, he ascends into your heart, forthwith he talks to you of righteousness, purity, chastity, contentment, and of every righteous deed and glorious virtue. When all these ascend into your heart, know that the angel of righteousness is with you. These are the deeds of the angel of righteousness. Trust him, then, and his works.
Look now at the works of the angel of iniquity. First, he is wrathful, and bitter, and foolish, and his works are evil, and ruin the servants of God. When, then, he ascends into your heart, know him by his works.” And I said to him, “How, sir, I shall perceive him, I donor know.” “Hear and understand” said he. “When anger comes upon you, or harshness, know that he is in you; and you will know this to be the case also, when you are attacked by a longing after many transactions, and the richest delicacies, and drunken revels, and divers luxuries, and things improper, and by a hankering after women, and by overreaching, and pride, and blustering, and by whatever is like to these. When these ascend into your heart, know that the angel of iniquity is in you. Now that you know his works, depart from him, and in no respect trust him, because his deeds are evil, and unprofitable to the servants of God.
These, then, are the actions of both angels. Understand them, and trust the angel of righteousness; but depart from the angel of iniquity, because his instruction is bad in every deed. For though a man be most faithful, and the thought of this angel ascend into his heart, that man or woman must sin.
On the other hand, be a man or woman ever so bad, yet, if the works of the angel of righteousness ascend into his or her heart, he or she must do something good. You see, therefore, that it is good to follow the angel of righteousness, but to bid farewell to the angel of iniquity. “This commandment exhibits the deeds of faith, that you may trust the works of the angel of righteousness, and doing them you may live to God. But believe the works of the angel of iniquity are hard. If you refuse to do them, you will live to God.”
Hi Shimmer,
It reminds me of what The Bible says in Col.3:4-9.
Col.3:4-9 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Mortify(put to death) therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness,
inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath
of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;There is no second flesh return of Jesus! (Click Here) Jesus returned in spirit form on Pentecost! (Click Here)
(2Cor. 5:16)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd, Hi, what does Jesus return in the flesh have to do with the Sheppard of Hermas ? I don't see why you put that there ?
Some thing's came to mind over the last week though quite 'blurry'
1) Bond; YHWH and Yahshua have a bond (ah, ok ?)
2) Truth; never find it here today,
3) Spirit children – not of this world.
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 01 2010,01:03) Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 31 2010,23:36) Ed, the Holy Spirit is the Son of God The Son of God came to dwell in a chosen man Jesus
Jesus became co-heir with the Son of God.
Hi Shimmer,This book was voted out as being Biblical Canon; Canon is considered authoritative from God.
The link you have provided along with the link here and my copy are all slightly
different in their wording; three different versions of the same book series.I prefer my copy as it is contained in: “The Lost Books of The Bible”,
which consists of many non-Canonical early Church writings such as…Clement I and II, Barnabus, Polycarp, Laodiceans, The lost Gospel of Peter and many more!
This book presents a 'false' truth about the “HolySpirit”, because the…
HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ! (Click Here) (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed, you said..Quote This book presents a 'false' truth about the “HolySpirit”, because the…
HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ!Well, according to Hermas the Holy Spirit is the son of God.
And how many deny the son of God? Take example those who claim there are two God's, (Binitarians are they called ?) (or something), where do they put the Holy Spirit ? Example JWs say the Holy Spirit is just a 'force' or power, what if Hermas is right ?
“He who blasphemes the son of man will be forgiven but he who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this life of the next”
If Jesus is called the son of man ?
Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 08 2010,19:42) Ed, Hi, what does Jesus return in the flesh have to do with the Sheppard of Hermas ? I don't see why you put that there ? Some thing's came to mind over the last week though quite 'blurry'
1) Bond; YHWH and Yahshua have a bond (ah, ok ?)
2) Truth; never find it here today,
3) Spirit children – not of this world.
Hi Shimmer,What you Posted reminded me of what The Bible says in Col.3:4-9.
I don't see why you put those three points down?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (shimmer @ Sep. 08 2010,19:54) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 01 2010,01:03) Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 31 2010,23:36) Ed, the Holy Spirit is the Son of God The Son of God came to dwell in a chosen man Jesus
Jesus became co-heir with the Son of God.
Hi Shimmer,This book was voted out as being Biblical Canon; Canon is considered authoritative from God.
The link you have provided along with the link here and my copy are all slightly
different in their wording; three different versions of the same book series.I prefer my copy as it is contained in: “The Lost Books of The Bible”,
which consists of many non-Canonical early Church writings such as…Clement I and II, Barnabus, Polycarp, Laodiceans, The lost Gospel of Peter and many more!
This book presents a 'false' truth about the “HolySpirit”, because the…
HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ! (Click Here) (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed, you said..Quote This book presents a 'false' truth about the “HolySpirit”, because the…
HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ!Well, according to Hermas the Holy Spirit is the son of God.
And how many deny the son of God? Take example those who claim there are two God's, (Binitarians are they called ?) (or something), where do they put the Holy Spirit ? Example JWs say the Holy Spirit is just a 'force' or power, what if Hermas is right ?
“He who blasphemes the son of man will be forgiven but he who blasphemes the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in this life of the next”
If Jesus is called the son of man ?
Hi Shimmer,To blaspheme the “HolySpirit” is to reject the “HolySpirit” as God?
There is no forgiveness for rejecting God; is this not understandable?Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:
but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Spirit (speaketh against the Holy Spirit), it
shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. (Mt.12:32)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd, I was talking about this what you said…
Quote There is no second flesh return of Jesus! (Click Here) Jesus returned in spirit form on Pentecost! (Click Here)
(2Cor. 5:16)Quote I don't see why you put those three points down? I put those three points down because it was something which I saw over the last week, which I felt I had to write down, so I put it here too, but that's all I got, Iv been 'uncluttering' my mind, (ditching the music etc) trying to get back to what I had. I put it here because everyone else on the forum is more interested in other thing's. (Eg going over the same things with people over and over again, I don't see their point, Why ?
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