The seven trumpets

[Tiffany]

To really understand this study, you have to go slow, and think about the historical events they describe, not to mention the symbolic laguish that is used.

When you read about the seven angels who have the seven trumpets, and the seven angels who have the seven bowls, do you look at these events as yet future; or have you ever considered the possibility that they have already occurred?
Do you also realize that John looked at these events in his vision, not knowing their meaning, or the time for which they were given? That means that we should not expect to find the events listed in the order as they really happened.

Rev. 8:1   “And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.”
v. 2     “And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.”
v. 6    “And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.”

John may have listed them as “the first angel sounded his trumpet, and this happened; the second angel sounded his trumpet, and that happened”; and so on. But as you will see, the events that they describe will show not only that they are not listed in the right order, but also that they are in fact have already occurred. The same is true for the seven bowls.

Rev. 15:1   “ And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God”.
Rev. 16:1   “ And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels; Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth”.

The seven bowls would show how God would punish the people on the earth. But as the angels were told to “go your ways“, all seven of them, John did not know when these events would take place; and the fact that the angels were told to go your ways, all of them, could mean that he had to look at all the events that were shown to him, all at once, which could also explain the brief description of each. You may also be surprised to learn that they describe the same events as the trumpets. For this reason, I will list the trumpets as they have occurred, according to their time in history, and compare to them the bowls of the wrath of God.
We need to look at the description of every trumpet, and every plague, and then see if an event happened in the past that matches that description. This will also show us whether these plagues are already past, or yet future. As in the past, God has used other nations to do his punishing, or through other means that would not appear to us as though they be of God.

First Trumpet:
Rev. 9:13   “And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God.”
v. 14   “Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphra’tes.”
v. 15   “And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.”
v. 16   “And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand; and I heard the number of them.”

This huge army that John describes would have to be the Huns, who in the 5th century almost overran all of Europe. Assuming they were the Huns, could they have been 200 million strong? In 722 BC, God had sent the Assyrians to punish the northern kingdom Israel. He said they were a nation strong and without numbers.  

Joel 1:6    “For a nation is come up upon my land (Israel), strong and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he has the cheek teeth of a great lion.”

In Rev. 9:16 we are given a number of 200 million; are we then to assume that the Assyrians had an army exceeding 200 million? The Huns were in fact called an army of horsemen because of their fighting skills on horseback. But if we take this number literal, we should also ask some “literal” questions. Could there have been an army of 200 million men in the 5th century, or any century for that matter? Who would have commanded it? And how? Would such an army have been logistically possible? Would such an army have been necessary? The same questions apply if we think that this is an army of the future. Think about it; in todays specialized, mechanized, and computerized military of every branch, what country could and would want to mobilize an army that size? Besides, would 200 million soldiers plus their equipment even fit in the Valley of Megiddo?
Now compare this trumpet with

The first bowl:
Rev. 16:12   “ And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared”.

No records show that the river Euphrates ever dried up; on the contrary, depending on the amount of rain and snow fall, up north in Turkey, the river would swell and flood large areas, especially in the low plains of Iraq, due to the slow elevation drop – 2 to 3 – inches per mile, compared to -10 + – inches per mile in Turkey; as during the hot summer month, the water level would be the lowest.  Having to cross large swampy areas would have been difficult enough, but it would have made fighting impossible; so the land which the river Euphrates flooded had to first dry up before an attack was possible. The kings of the east were the Muslim Turks that started their migration west in the 10th century. They came from as far as Central Asia and had made Palestine and Egypt their provinces by the 11th century.
In the chain of events, there is no trumpet to link up with the second bowl. The second bowl was bad enough all by itself.  

Second bowl:
Rev. 16:2   “And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth (people) and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image.”

We should remember that the cross had become the mark of the beast, Rome. And the image was the pope, the Roman Catholic church. This grievous sore fell on all of what used to be the Western Roman Empire and was now ruled over by the pope, the image; all had the mark of the beast, the cross; and all worshiped the image, the pope. This terrible plague happened in the middle of the 14th century and killed well over 25 million people; they called it the Black Death plague.        

Second Trumpet:
Rev. 8:10   “And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters.”
v. 11   “And the name of the star is called Wormwood (bitter): and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.”  

This star was not a meteorite, and it did not fall from the sky either. We have today many stars right hear on earth; basketball stars, football stars, baseball stars, and movie stars; they are all stars. This great star that fell from heaven was the pope. He fell from his heaven, his place of authority; he fell from power, thanks to Napoleon. The pope was the lamp to the world, but it was his light, his doctrine, that poisoned the waters, the true gospel of Christ, and made them bitter; and many men had to die for it.
And now look at the third bowl.

Third bowl:
Rev. 16:4    “ And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of water; and they became blood”.
v. 5     “ And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous O lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus”.
v. 6     “ For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets; and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy”.

Water is symbolic for the truth of God; Jesus said,

John 7:37   “… if any man thirst let hi
m come unto me, and drink “.
v. 38    “ He that believeth on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living waters”.

Jesus told the woman by the well,

John 4:10   “… if thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, give me to drink; thou wouldest have ask of him, and he would have given thee living water”.

Ever since Justinian died, in 565 AD, the western leg of Rome was left to fend for themselves. Although the pope took full charge of state and church, he had no army. He called on France, the strongest kingdom of Europe, for protection. The pope even crowned some of the king’s Holy Roman emperors. The French Revolution that started in 1789 and lasted thirteen years changed all that; where the Catholic church had persecuted, tortured, and killed those that opposed her, the saints, the Catholic church now became the persecuted herself. In fact, the church was expelled. The rivers and fountains of waters that became blood was the antichrist’s waters, false doctrine. During the French Revolution, tens of thousand of Catholics, bishops, and priests were massacred; it was the end of the antichrist’s reign. It was he that was responsible for the death of millions of saints. For thou hast given them blood to drink you could say, they got a taste of their own medicine.

Third Trumpet:
Rev. 8:7   “And the first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth (people); and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.”  

1914 was the beginning of World War I. Soldiers were dug in, in trenches reaching from Holland down to Switzerland. Artillery shells, howitzer and mortar shells rained down on both sides like hail, mingled with the blood of dead soldiers. Nothing but tree stumps were left standing on the battlefield, and no grass was there to be seen.  
Now add to this the description of the fourth bowl.

Fourth bowl:
Rev. 16:3   “ And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea (all the nations), and it became as the blood of a dead man; and every living soul died in the sea”.
Millions of men died from all nations, became as the blood of a dead man; and even those soldiers that survived the war were more dead then alive. Every soldier will tell you, after fighting and surviving many battles, after seeing the horrors of war, you are not the same as you were before; war changes every soldier, the old you will have died in you. The same is true for the civilians in whose country the war was fought.    

Fourth Trumpet:
Rev. 8:12   “And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.”

The sun, the moon, and stars are objects that give us light, but how could a third of all of them have turned dark? They didn’t; it is not their light the Bible speaks off. Our kings and rulers, our leaders, they are our light; they have the understanding to give us direction; they make decisions for us, in our best interest; at least that is why they are our leaders. They are our sun, moon, and stars, and they became darkened by their inability to make wise decisions. The third part of our light givers refers to the League of Nations. 63 Nations, about a third of all the nations at that time, belonged to the League of Nation.
The fifth bowl actually tells the rest of the story.

Fifth bowl:
Rev. 16:10   “ And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongue for pain”.

This beast, kingdom, is the seventh king of Rev. 17:10, that came into existence during the First World War; his name was “ the League of Nations “. This king did not come to conquer; he came to prevent future wars, but he failed in his mission. This kingdom was full of darkness; it had no understanding; it could not make wise decisions, and the result was the Second World War. They bid their tongue; they bid their fingernails; they pulled out their hair; what this all means is, they had no clue what to do now; and so it went into perdition. (See the 7th head)

Fifth Trumpet:
Rev. 8:8    “And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood.”
v. 9     “And the third part of creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.”  

Again, this great mountain is no meteorite. Mountain is a metaphor for kingdom or nation. Germany is a great mountain, a great nation; it was symbolically cast into the sea of nations, and they all caught on fire and became as blood. In other words, this is speaking of the Second World War. Look at the description of the sixth bowl.  

Sixth bowl:
Rev. 16:17    “ And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, it is done.”
v. 18   “And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.”

This great earthquake has nothing to do with the shaking of the ground; it is the shaking of governments, man’s societies, man’s ways of life. No greater war was ever fought then the Second World War. It was the greatest shaking the earth people had ever experienced.  

v. 19   “And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.”

After the war, the great city Jerusalem was divided into three religious sections, Jewish, Muslim, and Christians; they all claimed to have a right to the city. Great Babylon is symbolic for all false religion. Satan, who is the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4), has deceived the whole world (Rev. 12:9); and so God’s wrath was on the entire world.

v. 20   “And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.”

Islands are provinces; mountains are kingdoms; fled away or were not found is to say, they were now ruled over, at least for a long while, by their liberators.    

v. 21    “ And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent (100 pounds); and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, for the plague thereof was exceeding great”.

During the Second World War, enough bombs were dropped, all over the world, that for the Apostle John it could have been easily taken for hail. For John a 100-pound stone or a 100-pound bomb would have looked the same. Even if he saw the bombs exploding on impact, how would you expect John to describe that, not even knowing what an explosion was, except to say “the plague was exceeding great.”  

Sixth Trumpet:
Rev. 9:1   “And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a great star fall from heaven unto the Earth; and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.”

What John was shown was the A-bomb fallen from the sky; to him it was a star. When it exploded, in John’s mind that opened the bottomless pit because where else could the smoke come from; this huge mushroom cloud had to come from a great furnace, which darkened the sun, and the air,

v. 2     “And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.”
v. 3     “And there came out of the smoke locust upon the earth; and onto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.”

There are two things we need to pay attention too, one, these “locusts” came o
ut of the smoke; and two, they had power as the scorpions.  

v. 4     “And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree, but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.”
v. 5     “And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five month; and their torment was in the torment of a scorpion, when it striketh a man.”

John was describing the scene the best way he could with what he understood. He most likely had seen swarms of locust before, how they appeared like a cloud, swooping down on the earth, and eating up all vegetation; but these locusts didn’t do that; that’s because what John saw coming out of the smoke were no locusts; it was the debris and dust thrown up by the explosion; radioactive fallout, we call it. It didn’t hurt the trees and the grass, but it caused tremendous sours and pain to those that were exposed to it. People whished they were dead rather then suffer through it.

v. 6    “And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.”  

In the next four verses, John attempts to describe another kind of locust, the B-29 Bomber.

v. 7     “And the shapes of the locust were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.”

Looking at a B-29 from the front, one could take those rows of square windows from the cockpit for a crown; and to us it would be of no surprise to find faces of men behind that crown.

v. 8     “And they had hair as the hair of woman, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.”  

The hair as of a woman would be the vapor trail of the highflying bombers, coming from the four propellers engines, lion teeth.

v. 9      “And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their  wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.”
v. 10    “And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails; and their power was to hurt men  five month.”

With 50 caliber machine guns in front and a 20 mm canon in the tail, they had power to hurt. Add to that the seventh bowl, and the picture is complete.

Seventh bowl:
Rev. 16:8   “ And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire”.
v. 9    “And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues; and they repented not to give him glory”.

We all have seen pictures of the devastation caused by the atomic bomb dropped over Japan. We have seen pictures of people that were burned by the heat of the blast, and from the radiation. We have seen pictures of the blast itself that is so bright you can’t look at it without protection; how would you expect John to describe a scene like that, except to compare it with the sun?

Seventh Trumpet:
Rev. 11:15   “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, the kingdoms of the world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”  

This trumpet sound announced the return of Jesus Christ to this earth, but unnoticed by any human.

1 Thes. 4:16   “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump (The last trump) of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first.”
1 Thes. 5:2   “For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.”

The dead in Christ were resurrected because they have to be trained to rule with Christ as kings and priest; they were also the only once that heard the trumpet sound.

Rev. 5:10   “And hast made us unto our God kings and priests; and we shall reign on the earth.”

Jesus told the apostles he would go and prepare a place for them, the saints, and then come back for them; he did. This is what is meant by setting up God’s kingdom.

Dan. 2:44   “And in the days of these kings (See the seventh head) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.”

This, according to historical events, the seven seals have been opened; the seven trumpets have been blown, and the seven bowls have been poured out. People in the past never realized when prophecy was being fulfilled, do we? The Bible is available to every one, and other information is made easy to obtain from computers; Daniel said that knowledge would be increased; are we making use of it? Whether we believe it, or show any interest in God’s word, it want stop God from going ahead with his plan. You want to be among those that are left? You have to start doing something about it now!

Georg

[942767]

Quote (Tiffany @ Jan. 01 2009,10:57)

To really understand this study, you have to go slow, and think about the historical events they describe, not to mention the symbolic laguish that is used. When you read about the seven angels who have the seven trumpets, and the seven angels who have the seven bowls, do you look at these events as yet future; or have you ever considered the possibility that they have already occurred? Do you also realize that John looked at these events in his vision, not knowing their meaning, or the time for which they were given? That means that we should not expect to find the events listed in the order as they really happened. Rev. 8:1   “And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.” v. 2     “And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.” v. 6    “And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.” John may have listed them as “the first angel sounded his trumpet, and this happened; the second angel sounded his trumpet, and that happened”; and so on. But as you will see, the events that they describe will show not only that they are not listed in the right order, but also that they are in fact have already occurred. The same is true for the seven bowls. Rev. 15:1   “ And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God”. Rev. 16:1   “ And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels; Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth”. The seven bowls would show how God would punish the people on the earth. But as the angels were told to “go your ways“, all seven of them, John did not know when these events would take place; and the fact that the angels were told to go your ways, all of them, could mean that he had to look at all the events that were shown to him, all at once, which could also explain the brief description of each. You may also be surprised to learn that they describe the same events as the trumpets. For this reason, I will list the trumpets as they have occurred, according to their time in history, and compare to them the bowls of the wrath of God. We need to look at the description of every trumpet, and every plague, and then see if an event happened in the past that matches that description. This will also show us whether these plagues are already past, or yet future. As in the past, God has used other nations to do his punishing, or through other means that would not appear to us as though they be of God. First Trumpet: Rev. 9:13   “And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God.” v. 14   “Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphra’tes.” v. 15   “And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.” v. 16   “And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand; and I heard the number of them.” This huge army that John describes would have to be the Huns, who in the 5th century almost overran all of Europe. Assuming they were the Huns, could they have been 200 million strong? In 722 BC, God had sent the Assyrians to punish the northern kingdom Israel. He said they were a nation strong and without numbers.   Joel 1:6    “For a nation is come up upon my land (Israel), strong and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he has the cheek teeth of a great lion.” In Rev. 9:16 we are given a number of 200 million; are we then to assume that the Assyrians had an army exceeding 200 million? The Huns were in fact called an army of horsemen because of their fighting skills on horseback. But if we take this number literal, we should also ask some “literal” questions. Could there have been an army of 200 million men in the 5th century, or any century for that matter? Who would have commanded it? And how? Would such an army have been logistically possible? Would such an army have been necessary? The same questions apply if we think that this is an army of the future. Think about it; in todays specialized, mechanized, and computerized military of every branch, what country could and would want to mobilize an army that size? Besides, would 200 million soldiers plus their equipment even fit in the Valley of Megiddo? Now compare this trumpet with The first bowl: Rev. 16:12   “ And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared”. No records show that the river Euphrates ever dried up; on the contrary, depending on the amount of rain and snow fall, up north in Turkey, the river would swell and flood large areas, especially in the low plains of Iraq, due to the slow elevation drop – 2 to 3 – inches per mile, compared to -10 + – inches per mile in Turkey; as during the hot summer month, the water level would be the lowest.  Having to cross large swampy areas would have been difficult enough, but it would have made fighting impossible; so the land which the river Euphrates flooded had to first dry up before an attack was possible. The kings of the east were the Muslim Turks that started their migration west in the 10th century. They came from as far as Central Asia and had made Palestine and Egypt their provinces by the 11th century. In the chain of events, there is no trumpet to link up with the second bowl. The second bowl was bad enough all by itself.   Second bowl: Rev. 16:2   “And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth (people) and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image.” We should remember that the cross had become the mark of the beast, Rome. And the image was the pope, the Roman Catholic church. This grievous sore fell on all of what used to be the Western Roman Empire and was now ruled over by the pope, the image; all had the mark of the beast, the cross; and all worshiped the image, the pope. This terrible plague happened in the middle of the 14th century and killed well over 25 million people; they called it the Black Death plague.         Second Trumpet: Rev. 8:10   “And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters.” v. 11   “And the name of the star is called Wormwood (bitter): and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.”   This star was not a meteorite, and it did not fall from the sky either. We have today many stars right hear on earth; basketball stars, football stars, baseball stars, and movie stars; they are all stars. This great star that fell from heaven was the pope. He fell from his heaven, his place of authority; he fell from power, thanks to Napoleon. The pope was the lamp to the world, but it was his light, his doctrine, that poisoned the waters, the true gospel of Christ, and made them bitter; and many men had to die for it. And now look at the third bowl. Third bowl: Rev. 16:4    “ And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of water; and they became blood”. v. 5     “ And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous O lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus”. v. 6     “ For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets; and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy”. Water is symbolic for the truth of God; Jesus said, John 7:37   “… if any man thirst let him come unto me, and drink “. v. 38    “ He that believeth on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living waters”. Jesus told the woman by the well, John 4:10   “… if thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, give me to drink; thou wouldest have ask of him, and he would have given thee living water”. Ever since Justinian died, in 565 AD, the western leg of Rome was left to fend for themselves. Although the pope took full charge of state and church, he had no army. He called on France, the strongest kingdom of Europe, for protection. The pope even crowned some of the king’s Holy Roman emperors. The French Revolution that started in 1789 and lasted thirteen years changed all that; where the Catholic church had persecuted, tortured, and killed those that opposed her, the saints, the Catholic church now became the persecuted herself. In fact, the church was expelled. The rivers and fountains of waters that became blood was the antichrist’s waters, false doctrine. During the French Revolution, tens of thousand of Catholics, bishops, and priests were massacred; it was the end of the antichrist’s reign. It was he that was responsible for the death of millions of saints. For thou hast given them blood to drink you could say, they got a taste of their own medicine. Third Trumpet: Rev. 8:7   “And the first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth (people); and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.”   1914 was the beginning of World War I. Soldiers were dug in, in trenches reaching from Holland down to Switzerland. Artillery shells, howitzer and mortar shells rained down on both sides like hail, mingled with the blood of dead soldiers. Nothing but tree stumps were left standing on the battlefield, and no grass was there to be seen.   Now add to this the description of the fourth bowl. Fourth bowl: Rev. 16:3   “ And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea (all the nations), and it became as the blood of a dead man; and every living soul died in the sea”. Millions of men died from all nations, became as the blood of a dead man; and even those soldiers that survived the war were more dead then alive. Every soldier will tell you, after fighting and surviving many battles, after seeing the horrors of war, you are not the same as you were before; war changes every soldier, the old you will have died in you. The same is true for the civilians in whose country the war was fought.     Fourth Trumpet: Rev. 8:12   “And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.” The sun, the moon, and stars are objects that give us light, but how could a third of all of them have turned dark? They didn’t; it is not their light the Bible speaks off. Our kings and rulers, our leaders, they are our light; they have the understanding to give us direction; they make decisions for us, in our best interest; at least that is why they are our leaders. They are our sun, moon, and stars, and they became darkened by their inability to make wise decisions. The third part of our light givers refers to the League of Nations. 63 Nations, about a third of all the nations at that time, belonged to the League of Nation. The fifth bowl actually tells the rest of the story. Fifth bowl: Rev. 16:10   “ And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongue for pain”. This beast, kingdom, is the seventh king of Rev. 17:10, that came into existence during the First World War; his name was “ the League of Nations “. This king did not come to conquer; he came to prevent future wars, but he failed in his mission. This kingdom was full of darkness; it had no understanding; it could not make wise decisions, and the result was the Second World War. They bid their tongue; they bid their fingernails; they pulled out their hair; what this all means is, they had no clue what to do now; and so it went into perdition. (See the 7th head) Fifth Trumpet: Rev. 8:8    “And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood.” v. 9     “And the third part of creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.”   Again, this great mountain is no meteorite. Mountain is a metaphor for kingdom or nation. Germany is a great mountain, a great nation; it was symbolically cast into the sea of nations, and they all caught on fire and became as blood. In other words, this is speaking of the Second World War. Look at the description of the sixth bowl.   Sixth bowl: Rev. 16:17    “ And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, it is done.” v. 18   “And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.” This great earthquake has nothing to do with the shaking of the ground; it is the shaking of governments, man’s societies, man’s ways of life. No greater war was ever fought then the Second World War. It was the greatest shaking the earth people had ever experienced.   v. 19   “And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.” After the war, the great city Jerusalem was divided into three religious sections, Jewish, Muslim, and Christians; they all claimed to have a right to the city. Great Babylon is symbolic for all false religion. Satan, who is the god of this world (2 Cor. 4:4), has deceived the whole world (Rev. 12:9); and so God’s wrath was on the entire world. v. 20   “And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.” Islands are provinces; mountains are kingdoms; fled away or were not found is to say, they were now ruled over, at least for a long while, by their liberators.     v. 21    “ And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent (100 pounds); and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, for the plague thereof was exceeding great”. During the Second World War, enough bombs were dropped, all over the world, that for the Apostle John it could have been easily taken for hail. For John a 100-pound stone or a 100-pound bomb would have looked the same. Even if he saw the bombs exploding on impact, how would you expect John to describe that, not even knowing what an explosion was, except to say “the plague was exceeding great.”   Sixth Trumpet: Rev. 9:1   “And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a great star fall from heaven unto the Earth; and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.” What John was shown was the A-bomb fallen from the sky; to him it was a star. When it exploded, in John’s mind that opened the bottomless pit because where else could the smoke come from; this huge mushroom cloud had to come from a great furnace, which darkened the sun, and the air, v. 2     “And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.” v. 3     “A nd there came out of the smoke locust upon the earth; and onto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.” There are two things we need to pay attention too, one, these “locusts” came out of the smoke; and two, they had power as the scorpions.   v. 4     “And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree, but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.” v. 5     “And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five month; and their torment was in the torment of a scorpion, when it striketh a man.” John was describing the scene the best way he could with what he understood. He most likely had seen swarms of locust before, how they appeared like a cloud, swooping down on the earth, and eating up all vegetation; but these locusts didn’t do that; that’s because what John saw coming out of the smoke were no locusts; it was the debris and dust thrown up by the explosion; radioactive fallout, we call it. It didn’t hurt the trees and the grass, but it caused tremendous sours and pain to those that were exposed to it. People whished they were dead rather then suffer through it. v. 6    “And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.”   In the next four verses, John attempts to describe another kind of locust, the B-29 Bomber. v. 7     “And the shapes of the locust were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.” Looking at a B-29 from the front, one could take those rows of square windows from the cockpit for a crown; and to us it would be of no surprise to find faces of men behind that crown. v. 8     “And they had hair as the hair of woman, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.”   The hair as of a woman would be the vapor trail of the highflying bombers, coming from the four propellers engines, lion teeth. v. 9      “And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their  wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.” v. 10    “And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails; and their power was to hurt men  five month.” With 50 caliber machine guns in front and a 20 mm canon in the tail, they had power to hurt. Add to that the seventh bowl, and the picture is complete. Seventh bowl: Rev. 16:8   “ And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire”. v. 9    “And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues; and they repented not to give him glory”. We all have seen pictures of the devastation caused by the atomic bomb dropped over Japan. We have seen pictures of people that were burned by the heat of the blast, and from the radiation. We have seen pictures of the blast itself that is so bright you can’t look at it without protection; how would you expect John to describe a scene like that, except to compare it with the sun? Seventh Trumpet: Rev. 11:15   “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, the kingdoms of the world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”   This trumpet sound announced the return of Jesus Christ to this earth, but unnoticed by any human. 1 Thes. 4:16   “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump (The last trump) of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first.” 1 Thes. 5:2   “For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.” The dead in Christ were resurrected because they have to be trained to rule with Christ as kings and priest; they were also the only once that heard the trumpet sound. Rev. 5:10   “And hast made us unto our God kings and priests; and we shall reign on the earth.” Jesus told the apostles he would go and prepare a place for them, the saints, and then come back for them; he did. This is what is meant by setting up God’s kingdom. Dan. 2:44   “And in the days of these kings (See the seventh head) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.” This, according to historical events, the seven seals have been opened; the seven trumpets have been blown, and the seven bowls have been poured out. People in the past never realized when prophecy was being fulfilled, do we? The Bible is available to every one, and other information is made easy to obtain from computers; Daniel said that knowledge would be increased; are we making use of it? Whether we believe it, or show any interest in God’s word, it want stop God from going ahead with his plan. You want to be among those that are left? You have to start doing something about it now! Georg

Hi Georg and Tiffany:

This is interesting and shows that you have a tremondous knowledge of history, but I disagree.

At least the sixth trumpet has not sounded, because the two witness in the book of revelation are part of this trumpet. This has not happened yet.

The sixth seal hasn't either it corresponds with what is said in Matthew 24 when the Lord comes for the church:

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Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

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Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

My understanding is that these events are in the future.

[NickHassan]

Hi georg,
1 Thessalonians 5:4
But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;

[Tiffany]

942767

You are correct, Mat 24:29 is yet future, it will be the time of Israels final trbulation, and God's wrath on the entire world.

Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

This is what Jesus is talking about in Mat 24:29.

Jer 25:29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name (Jerusalem), and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

How far away do you thimk we are from that?
Yes, the sixth seal has been opemed.

The sixth seal:
Rev. 6:12 “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, lo, there was a great Earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood.”
v. 13 “And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.”

When we hear of earthquakes, we automatically thing of the shaking of the ground, destruction of buildings and death; and that for a good reason. However, when we read about earthquakes in our Bible, it is not always a shaking of the ground that is meant by it; earth is a metaphor for people and their governments. Just as real earthquakes shake up and destroy buildings, destroy and disrupt lives, this earthquake shook up kingdoms and governments; it destroyed and disrupted many lives. It changed their way of life forever. Why am I so sure this was not a real earthquake? Consider this, the Bible never mentions volcanic eruptions, floods or mudslides, hurricanes or tornados; never mentioned tsunamis; and they can be every bit as destructive as an earthquake. Let’s also understand that an earthquake has never caused the Sun to turn black or the Moon to become as blood; neither have any stars fallen from heaven because of an earthquake. This was an earthquake that caused disturbances all over the world. It was a shaking of people, of societies, of kingdoms; and it started of all places right here in America, 1776 AD. This date should be familiar to all. People were getting tired of monarchs, being taxed without having a say-so in it, being persecuted for their believes. And a new world had opened up for them, America. Soon the people in this new world were finding out that the king of the old world was reaching all across the Atlantic Ocean into their pockets. That did it; this time we will fight, they said. This revolution started the greatest earthquake for freedom in mans history. It was the inspiration for the French Revolution, as well as many revolutions all over Europe.
The French Revolution was the most violent; it lasted the longest and was the most significant of all revolution in that it caused the end of antichrists reign. People were starving to death, while the king and queen, the nobles and the clergy, were living in splendor. The revolution was an act of desperation that turned into anger; and once it got started, into nothing but hate toward all the rich and wealthy, and that included the Catholic church, the revolution had turned into a massacre, total anarchy. The king and queen were guillotined along with thousands of bishops and priests; tens of thousands of Catholics were killed. The Catholic church, the heaven, was expelled from France.

Rev, 6:14 “And the heavens departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.”

This was the “great earthquake”, and the sun became black, meaning it no longer gave light. Jesus had told us, he was the light of the world,

John 8:12 “Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying; I am the light of the world; he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”

The Catholic church, the antichrist, was the sun, the light of the world; it became black was no longer allowed to shine. The moon has no light of his own; he reflects the light of the sun. The moon here are referred to the priests and bishops; they reflect, teach, the light of the Pope, his doctrines, became as blood, were killed. And who are the stars that fell from what heaven? This was not a meteor shower; we have lots of stars in Hollywood and in the sports arena, and many of them have fallen to the ground, for whatever reason. The stars referred to hear were the kings, princes, and nobles. They would carry out the pope’s order of torture and execution. After all, the church couldn’t bloody their hands. Heaven? The Vatican is the pope’s heaven; it is his place of authority. When the pope lost his power to shine, to rule, so did his stars. Nothing remained the same when it was all over.

Rev. 6:15 “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid semselves in the dens, and in the rocks of the mountains;”

Those that managed to escape the slaughter fled to other kingdoms -mountains- looking for protection in their rocks, strongholds.

Georg

[Tiffany]

942767

By the way, you're not waiting for the rapture, are you?
It wont happen!

Georg

[942767]

Quote (Tiffany @ Jan. 01 2009,17:55)

942767 By the way, you're not waiting for the rapture, are you? It wont happen! Georg

Hi Georg:

Your explanation for the following scriptures then?

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1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

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Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

[Tiffany]

942767

Let me show you first the state of the dead.
Death is the opposite of life; you stop breathing, and you stop living.

Ps. 104:29 “Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled, thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.”
Eccl. 3:19 “For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man has no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.”
v. 20 “All go unto one place, all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.”
Eccl. 9:5 “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.”
Ps. 6:5 “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?”
Ps. 88:10 “Wilt thou show wonders to the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise thee?”
v. 11 “Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? Or thy faithfulness in destruction?”
v. 12 “Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? And thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?”
Ps. 115:17 “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”

There is nothing in these scriptures that give even a hind that anything of you remains alive or conscious, when you’re dead. You cannot have light and dark in the same room at the same time, or hot and cold in the same cup at the same time, etc. etc.; neither can you be dead and alive at the same time. There is nothing immortal about us or in us. Nowhere in the bible will you find that when the body dies the “soul” lives on.
Therefore, 1Th 4:14 does not mean they're coming out of heaven.
Verse 15 only states that the dead saints will rise first, and the saints which are alive will remain.
Verse 16 shows that Christ is coming down, the risen saints don't go up.
Verse 17 is the verse that confuses most people. Paul says, we which are alive, “and remain”. Why would Paul say, and remain, if all were to be changed instantly? They will remain until their death, then at that moment of death, their change will be instantly; no waiting in their grave.

1Cr 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

You can not live again, unless you die first.
To meet the Lord in the air; remember how Jesus tried to explain to Nicodemus what a spirit being is? he said it's like the wind, like the air; you can't see the air, and you can't see a spirit being; air in other words is the spirit world; and what do clouds do? they hide what is behind them; Christ will come in the clouds, why, is he hiding from us? no, he is protecting us.

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Paul saw Jesus for just a moment and it blinded him, Acts 9:17.
Nobody is going to disappear with their cloth left behind, no airplane will fall from the sky because the pilot disappeared.
Mat 24:31 is speaking of the first resurrection, saints have died all over the world.
Mat 24:29-30 is the third and final tribulation for the Israelites; and the way things are going in Israel, that could happen any day now. It will also be the time of God's wrath on the rest of the world.

Georg

[NickHassan]

Hi georg,
Man is dust and will return to dust.
The promise is of salvation of the soul.

[Tiffany]

We been through this before, this thread is about the seven trumpets and the seven bowls.

Georg

[NickHassan]

Hi Georg,
Jesus did not explain to Nicodemus what a spirit being is.
He explained how the Spirit of God works in a man.

[Tiffany]

Nick

Jesus is talking about born again, not born from above; you better read John 3:3-8 again.

Georg

[NickHassan]

Hi georg,
What to you is the difference?

[Tiffany]

Born again means, resurrected from the dead.

Georg

[942767]

Quote (Tiffany @ Jan. 02 2009,10:03)

942767 Let me show you first the state of the dead. Death is the opposite of life; you stop breathing, and you stop living. Ps. 104:29   “Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled, thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.” Eccl. 3:19   “For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man has no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.” v. 20   “All go unto one place, all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.” Eccl. 9:5   “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.” Ps. 6:5   “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?” Ps. 88:10   “Wilt thou show wonders to the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise thee?” v. 11   “Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? Or thy faithfulness in destruction?” v. 12   “Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? And thy righteousness in the land of  forgetfulness?” Ps. 115:17   “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.” There is nothing in these scriptures that give even a hind that anything of you remains alive or conscious, when you’re dead. You cannot have light and dark in the same room at the same time, or hot and cold in the same cup at the same time, etc. etc.; neither can you be dead and alive at the same time. There is nothing immortal about us or in us. Nowhere in the bible will you find that when the body dies the “soul” lives on. Therefore, 1Th 4:14 does not mean they're coming out of heaven. Verse 15 only states that the dead saints will rise first, and the saints which are alive will remain. Verse 16 shows that Christ is coming down, the risen saints don't go up. Verse 17 is the verse that confuses most people. Paul says, we which are alive, “and remain”. Why would Paul say, and remain, if all were to be changed instantly? They will remain until their death, then at that moment of death, their change will be instantly; no waiting in their grave. 1Cr 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: You can not live again, unless you die first. To meet the Lord in the air; remember how Jesus tried to explain to Nicodemus what a spirit being is? he said it's like the wind, like the air; you can't see the air, and you can't see a spirit being; air in other words is the spirit world; and what do clouds do? they hide what is behind them; Christ will come in the clouds, why, is he hiding from us? no, he is protecting us. Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. Paul saw Jesus for just a moment and it blinded him, Acts 9:17. Nobody is going to disappear with their cloth left behind, no airplane will fall from the sky because the pilot disappeared. Mat 24:31 is speaking of the first resurrection, saints have died all over the world. Mat 24:29-30 is the third and final tribulation for the Israelites; and the way things are going in Israel, that could happen any day now. It will also be the time of God's wrath on the rest of the world. Georg

Hi Georg:

I believe I will continue to wait on God to come and take me out of this place before He pours out His wrath on those who have received the mark of the beast.

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Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh

Marty

[Tiffany]

Marty

Very few people know what the mark of the beast is because they don't know who or what is the beast.

Georg

[NickHassan]

Quote (Tiffany @ Jan. 02 2009,16:45)

Born again means, resurrected from the dead. Georg

Hi Georg,
Does it?
1Peter1
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[Tiffany]

Nick

This is what we are talking about, is it not?

Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

How do you get from Nicodemus to Peter?
Are you trying to divert from the subject again?
Remember, trumpets, and bowls; give us your inside.

Georg

[942767]

Quote (Tiffany @ Jan. 04 2009,02:45)

Marty Very few people know what the mark of the beast is because they don't know who or what is the beast. Georg

Hi Georg:

Very few people, meaning only you and a few others?

[NickHassan]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 04 2009,05:25)

Quote (Tiffany @ Jan. 02 2009,16:45) Born again means, resurrected from the dead. Georg Hi Georg, Does it? 1Peter1 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Hi Georg,
We have been born again yet we are not yet dead let alone raised.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 05 2009,12:35)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 04 2009,05:25) Quote (Tiffany @ Jan. 02 2009,16:45) Born again means, resurrected from the dead. Georg Hi Georg, Does it? 1Peter1 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, Hi Georg, We have been born again yet we are not yet dead let alone raised.

Hi Nick:

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Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

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Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

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Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

[Author]

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