- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 20 2007,18:35) Hi W,
You first.
NHJesus was not born again for to be “Born again” you have to die.
Unless you include his resurection as being born again.
If you do then that would mean that we are born again and will be born again.
If you say Jesus spiritually died at the Jordan then you are saying the Son of God was not the Word/God in the flesh, and that the Eternal life that was with the Father from the beginning is not Eternal after all, 1Jn 1:1,2.
And you have no scripture for such nonsense.Jesus was God in the flesh who never had a beginning. Jn 1:1
Your turn.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 21 2007,06:34) Thanks,
Some good points and I will spend some time studying this.
NHSincerely thanks.
I have to say I have never heard you say “good points”.
Wow.
Hi W,
Consider this.
Have you been born again?
Or are you like those spoken of in Gal 4?” 19My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, “
The point I make is that rebirth from above is more of a process than an event.
The seed of the Word of God is heard and then the soil must allow that seed room to grow. The grain be watered [1Cor 3.6f]and must die [Jn12.24]and fertilised and then comes the growth.
Mk 4
'26And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;27And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how.
28For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.
29But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.”
It takes time.
It is not for us an instant complete change.
Our personality still exists and can quench that Spirit.
Then as newborn infants we must learn to walk in the Spirit.Gal 5
” 16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh”If it did not then why would Galatians 5 urge us to be led by the Spirit?
Gal 5
” 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. “Christ was anointed filled with the Spirit at the Jordan and began his ministry.
Lk 3
21Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,22And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
23And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, “
Lk 4
” 1And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, “Yet his own personality and will were still manifest in Gethsemene.
He could have quenched the Spirit even then and not obeyed.Lk 22
“41And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,42Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.”
We follow him into his death and resurrection.
Rom 6
” 3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. “
Yet we are not dead and must reckon ourselves to be so that we be found in him at the resurrection.
We must work out our salvation and reach the fullness of kingdom through many tribulations.Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.The process requires daily submission to God and His Word.
That process was complete after three years for Christ.
Paul too took time.Gal 1
” 16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:17Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
18Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.”
Do you see the point?
NH
No I dont see your point. Nowhere in all the scriptures you give does it show that Christ was reborn.
In fact the Spirit like a dove “Sat upon him” it dosent even say that the Spirit entered him.
The Spirit sat upon him like in the Old Testament with the Prophets. Jesus had to fulfill the law in every way so the Spirit was the anointing oil that the scriptures speak of,
Isa 61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD (Father) hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord (Father) is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,Nowhere in the scriptures is there any indication that Jesus recieved the Holy Spirit, even from his birth, while John the baptist was filled with the Spirit from his birth.
This is because the Spirit the third person of the trinity sat upon him as the anointing oil that ran down over him in fulfillment of the Old Testament law for setting in Kings, Priest and Prophets of which Jesus is all three.
Since Jesus is Glorified the Spirit now “Indwells” the believer because we are born again by that Spirit and the Old man dies and the New man is made alive through his death and resurrection.
Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ:(my old man died) nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.2 Cor 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.Rom 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.Eph 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;Jesus never had an old man, for he never had sin. He was perfect the second Adam.
Heb 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.Jn 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath *nothing* in me.2 Cor 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.The above verse means the Spotless, perfect Lamb of God became the sin offering for us.
Heb 10:
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore *when he cometh into the world*, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but **a body hast thou prepared me**:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.There is no reason for Jesus to be born again. Because he was the only perfect man that ever lived.
He is the Lord from heaven the Word/God that took on the **likeness**, of sinfull flesh and being found in fashion as a man humbled himself in fulfillment of the Law even to the death of the cross, therefore making it possible for sinfull men to come to a Holy God.
He is God who became our mediator.
Sorry NH this perfect Jesus didnt need to be born again.
Hi W,
Luke 4 says that Christ was full of the Spirit for the first time in scripture and that was also the beginning of his ministry of power. He was the Messiah, which means Christ and also “anointed one” so you should have no doubt that what is written about him in Acts 10 is true.“38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 21 2007,17:54) Hi W,
Luke 4 says that Christ was full of the Spirit for the first time in scripture and that was also the beginning of his ministry of power. He was the Messiah, which means Christ and also “anointed one” so you should have no doubt that what is written about him in Acts 10 is true.“38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.”
NHDid I say Christ was not full of the Spirit?
I said there is nothing in scriptures that shows he recieved the Spirit.
The baptism was the Spirit like a dove “Sat” upon him. There is no indication he was filled with the Spirit there.
38 How God *anointed Jesus* of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with
This is how the Prophets and Kings and Priest were anointed, the Spirit would set upon them but would not indwell them at least not permanantly.
Inference NH. You are now being guilty of what you preach against.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 21 2007,18:12) Doesn't being “born again” involve repentance? What did Yeshua have to repent of?
All are born again by the seed within1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 21 2007,18:12) Doesn't being “born again” involve repentance? What did Yeshua have to repent of?
Hi Is 1.18,
Nothing.
But he obeyed God for the sake of fulfilling all righteousness and to show us the Way.Hi Is 1.18,
He was indeed reborn from above by the Spirit of God.
Water baptism is for forgiveness[1Peter3, Acts 2] and as you say he did not need that.I'm finding it hard to follow your reasoning here NH, please bear with me. Can you tell me something, was Yeshua “born again” in the same way we are, or in a different way?
And another thing I have been wondering – do you suppose Paul was writing about his “born again” experience when he penned Galatians 2:20? I'll explain the significance of this when I get your reply.
Hi Is 1.18,
We are told in Jn 3 about being reborn.
God demands it be of water and the Spirit.
Both are necessary for us to see and enter the kingdom.
Being reborn of the Spirit brings us into a new spiritual realm.3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Baptism is a plea for forgiveness in response to our repentance and in it we die with Christ[Rom6]. Christ really died and never sinned so, except to satify the righteousness of God and to show us the way, it is understandable that John did not consider it necessary.
Gal2.20 in context
19For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Probably but I would not be certain.
He was a Pharisee but a sinner under the law over the death of Stephen and others.
He repented and was baptised and manifested many of the graces and gifts of the Spirit.
So he died and had the downpayment on salvation.Hi,
Christ was an obedient servant of God.
We too are God's servants if we obey His message given through His Son.The Word became Flesh but was not God's Son until He received the Holy Spirit at His baptism?
First born of the dead. That's when He was Born again?
And again He will be my Son.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?He was the son at baptism and again after His resurrection.
So we are His children and will be again after our resurrection?All question marks in case you haven't noticed
Quote (kenrch @ April 22 2007,01:21) The Word became Flesh but was not God's Son until He received the Holy Spirit at His baptism? First born of the dead. That's when He was Born again?
And again He will be my Son.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?He was the son at baptism and again after His resurrection.
So we are His children and will be again after our resurrection?All question marks in case you haven't noticed
Hi kenrch,
Who is the son of God shown in Proverbs 30?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
