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Hi Georg,
You quote Is 6517.For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
The new heavens and new earth are not shown until Rev 21
Samual
I will only respond to one of your quotes.
Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.These are the saints that were slain by the Romans because they would rather die then worship the emperor. Their persecution lasted till AD 313, when the emperor Constantine stopped all persecution, and allowed Christians to worship freely. Now the waiting started. After the death of Justinian, in AD 565, the last emperor of the East and the West, the pope of Rome took command over what used to be the western empire, he ruled over state and religion. Now the persecution started for those that were to be killed as the ones under the altar. The persecution for these saints was to last 1260 years.
Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.This is the same individual you read about in
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
He was brought down from his throne in 1813 by Napoleon; and finally in 1834 the Vatican abolished torture.
Georg
PS. Nick you're wrong.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 08 2009,06:19) Hi Georg,
Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.This scripture was being fulfilled from the moment Jesus started preaching the gospel of the kingdom.
NickThis is what I was referring to, I havent even read the rest.
Hi Georg,
Since his teachings ever remain why do you think this points to a special classroom of 100 years for the heathen to somehow reform them?Hi Georg,
You say
“Adam, Judas, Sapphira and Ananias will not be resurrected. They have all sinned against the Holy Spirit and have suffered the second death.”How odd.
The second death is not manifested till Rev 1920And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Hi Georg,
You say
” But with all the evidence presented from the Scriptures, your idea having those falling victim to death throughout the ages “all being resurrected” does not harmonize with Scripture.”Which ones?
Heb9
27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:Rev20
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Jn5
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 08 2009,08:11) Hi Georg,
You say
“Adam, Judas, Sapphira and Ananias will not be resurrected. They have all sinned against the Holy Spirit and have suffered the second death.”
NickShow me were I posted this.
I guess this proves it again, you don't pay attention what is being said!
All you do with your scriptures fill up the screen.Quote (Cindy @ Feb. 08 2009,09:32) I guess this proves it again, you don't pay attention what is being said!
All you do with your scriptures fill up the screen.
Hi Georg,
Yes we do need to pay attention more to what is written than our hopeful derivations.Hi Georg,
So the millenial kingdom is for the sons of the resurrection.[the first]
Luke 20:36
for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.Nick… Greetings!
There is no sanction against reasoning on the Scriptures. Your disbelief in the Second Death having taken place prior to our time does not agree with recorded Scriptural events.
Let’s take a serious look at what the Scriptures tell us:
Matthew 12:32 (New American Standard Bible)
“Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.”Luke 12:10 (New American Standard Bible)
“And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him.”You have to ask yourself, What constitutes a sin against the Holy Spirit? The Scriptures below give us a very good idea:
Acts 5:3,9 (New American Standard Bible)
“But Peter said, ‘Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?’”“Then Peter said to her, ‘Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well.’”
It should become evident to you that lying is just one way in which a person can sin against the Holy Spirit. Ananias and Sapphira both died on the spot for committing this offence. Quite obviously, then, they died the second death from which there is no resurrection. That is the reason the Scripture tells us, “it will not be forgiven him.”
Your thoughts are awaited. God bless!
Nick
Jesus speaks of the first resurrection, but doesn't say anything about the millennium; so why do you bring it up?
Georg
Georg… Greetings!
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t this rendition of Rome, Napoleon and the Vatican fulfilling the prophecies of Revelation originally from the writings of Charles Taze Russell? If so, what do you suppose he would have proposed about the events that have taken place since 1916 had he lived to this day? Do you believe he would have stuck to his previous view, or perhaps, updated it? I do!
I know the Bible Students hang on his every word. They tend to quote Russell (some do for certain) more than Scripture. This action goes against the following Scriptures:
John 10:7 (New American Standard Bible)
“So Jesus said to them again, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.’”John 10:27 (New American Standard Bible)
“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me… .”John 14:6 (New American Standard Bible)
“Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.’”We have the Words of Jesus recorded for our direction; we need not look to a man for enlightenment. Jesus explained the modus operandi for gaining that enlightenment:
John 15:26; 16:13 (New American Standard Bible)
“When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me… But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.”Placing your faith in a man that made so many false predictions, (all of which have been well documented), is a major fault of so many believers that it is truly worrisome. The reason I say this is because of the warning from God:
Deuteronomy 18:22 (New American Standard Bible)
“When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.”As stated previously, Russell made many prophecies that failed to come true. Why, then, would anyone follow his teachings? Wouldn’t the following Scripture hold true in that case?
Matthew 15:13-14 (New American Standard Bible)
“But He answered and said, ‘Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted. Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”Keeping with the Scriptures, the event’s Prophesied within Revelation regarding the ten kings and the destruction of Babylon the Great are yet ahead. Anyone can disagree with this conclusion as they see fit. But I believe the Scriptural evidence, combined with current and historical events, point forward.
Your thoughts are awaited. God Bless!
Samual
History books tell us about the invasion of the kingdom of Israel by the Assyrians in BC 722.
History tells us of the invasion of Judah by the Babylonians on BC 606.
Then we read about how the Meds and Persians conquered the Babylonians; next Greece conquered the Persians, and the Romans conquered them. History also identifies the three horns that were uprooted, it identifies the little horn with the eyes and the mouth, if you know what your looking for. It also identifies the king of the north, and finally identifies the one who humiliated the Antichrist and brought him down from his throne. All this information is available, if you know what your looking for.
I have read Mr. Russell's book, there is much unnecessary information in it as well as good information; but many of his interpretations of prophecies are wrong do to the fact, as you already mentioned, he died in 1916, but not only because of that, in many cases he was just wrong.
I don't know of any prophecies he made, at least not in the book I read.
You are referring to the 10 kings of Rev. 17; you are correct; they are the same kings Daniel spoke of in 2:44.
Why not take the time and read my post, “The seven trumpets, and the seven bowls”, you wont find that in Russell's book.Georg
Quote (Cindy @ Feb. 08 2009,22:32) Nick Jesus speaks of the first resurrection, but doesn't say anything about the millennium; so why do you bring it up?
Georg
Hi Georg,
Jesus spoke of the kingdom and the millenium is a major facet of it.
Rev 20 tells us only the sons of God are raised into the millenium and they will be co rulers of the nations.No mention of the second resurrection taking place till the 1000 years have passed so this idea of it being a second chance for all sinners is a WCOG falsehood.
Nick
Do you see why I said you jump around like a kangaroo?
I'm replying to what you said, Luke 20:36, when you realized you were wrong, you jumped to Rev. to save yourrrrr, soul.
Well, I have long ago realized that this is not a forum were people come to learn. This is an opinion forum, most come here just to voice their opinion, not interested ad all in trying to understand something; what a wast.Georg
Hi Georg,
Luke 20:3636Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
You are easily baffled but I suspect language difficulties may contribute.
So what does this mean to you?We are here for the sake of truth itself not human pride.
Scriptural truth is under intense assault.Quote (Cindy @ Feb. 08 2009,22:32) Nick Jesus speaks of the first resurrection, but doesn't say anything about the millennium; so why do you bring it up?
Georg
Hi Georg,
The first resurrection is into the milleniumJn5
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
rev20
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
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