- This topic is empty.
- Posts
“The Second Death”: An Analysis
From my many debates with members of Christendom’s main-stream denominations, I find that very few understand the import of the Scriptural evidence pertaining to the “second death.” According to what they have been taught, there are only two destinations available for them: heaven or hell. For that reason, then, I invite viewers on this site to actively participate in an analysis of this topic so that we can present a clear understanding to all interested in dispelling falsehood and establishing Truth.
This Scriptural topic under consideration begins as follows:
Revelation 2:11 (Darby Translation)
“He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies. He that overcomes shall in no wise be injured of the second death.”Revelation 20:6 (New American Standard Bible)
“Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.”As these verses bring out, the “second death” is tied together with the “first resurrection.” To understand what exactly the “second death’ signifies, we need to examine further Scriptural evidence:
Revelation 21:8 (New American Standard Bible)
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”At first glance, then, the question raises: Would this verse support main-stream Christendom’s teaching that those mentioned here would end up in Hellfire? And how does the following Scripture support or dispel that claim:
Revelation 20:14 (New American Standard Bible)
“Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.”With these verses to consider, I invite all interested to participate by presenting their Scripturally supported views. God bless!
Samual
You first have to convince people that they don't have a soul, as long as they believe that, they will believe you either go to heaven or you end up in hell; regardless if you die once or twice.
Georg
Hi Samual,
Hades and death are the holding places till the final judgement as Lk 16 shows and thus they have no place where judgement is complete.Only the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels, the second death, remains to destroy the dross of creation who cannot find salvation even in the bountiful mercy of God.
Those raised in the first resurrection, the sons of the rsurrection, cannot be condemned and do not even face that final judgement but have already passed from death to life[jn5]. Over them the second death has no power.
Georg & Nick… Greetings!
Yes, you are very right! I guess I thought that part was already established and not necessary to consider on a Bible Study group like this board. Guess I was wrong.
Okay, then; let’s see what the Scriptures tell us as to what the “soul” really is:
Genesis 2:7 (Darby Translation)
“And Jehovah Elohim formed Man, dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and Man became a living soul.”According to this Scriptural account, it took “the dust of the ground” and the breath of life” before the Man “became a living soul.” Logically, then, if we remove the breath of life, we are left with the “dust of the ground.”
Other Scriptures support this conclusion:
Psalm 146:3-4 (Darby Translation)
“Put not confidence in nobles, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his purposes perish.”Ecclesiastes 9:5 (Darby Translation)
“For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.”The second resurrection, where the “good and evil” are raised back to life for judgment…
John 5:28-29 (New American Standard Bible)
“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.”… takes place after Jesus takes full control of earth’s affairs at the time of the events outlined at Revelation 19:11 – 20:1-3. Until that event is completed, however, the dead are exactly where Jesus said they would be: “in the tombs” awaiting His call.
This is a problem that Christendom has. They have wandered away from the purity of God’s Written Word and are now teaching doctrines of demons. See how the Apostle Paul explains it:
1 Timothy 4:1-3 (New American Standard Bible)
“But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.”We can easily refer to the doctrine of the immortal soul as a doctrine of demons, especially when we realize that the source of that concept (the first lie) was from first demon, who said to Eve:
Genesis 3:4 (New American Standard Bible)
“The serpent said to the woman, ‘You surely will not die!’”That lie was in direct contradiction to God’s warning to Adam:
Genesis 2:17 (New American Standard Bible)
“…but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”Therefore, after considering some of the Scriptures detailing the condition of the dead, the soul can and does die, just as the Scripture tells us:
Ezekiel 18:4 (Darby Translation)
“Behold, all the souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”Nick is correct on the first resurrection and their reward of immortality for faithfulness. That’s why I wanted to dig into the “second death” and its ramifications to those falling victim to it. Perhaps we can now move on and discuss the second death? God bless!
Samual
Very well put, amen to you.
Rev. 2:11, and 20:6, is a reference to the first resurrection; all the saints that will be in it not only have proven that their loyalty to God meant more to them than their life, but they were resurrected with a spirit body, which gives them also eternal life; no chance of dying again.
Rev. 21:8, is to all those who during the millennium, and after their resurrection, refused to listen to that prophet, Acts 3:23, and for what ever reason would not repent.
Yes, it should dispel the claim of hell fire, because fire destroys, it does not preserve.
Death and hades, the grave, can only be destroyed if the one who has the power over them is destroyed, Satan the devil.
I believe that the lake of fire is more symbolic, showing that who ever is thrown into it, will never come back out; eternal destruction.Georg
Cindy… Greetings!
On the topic of the “second death” do you believe there are those living or those that have lived in past times that have already experienced that death? The reason I ask this question is because of what is written in 1 Kings 13:33-34; 14:1-13 regarding Jeroboam. Give that passage a read and do let me know your thoughts. God bless!
Georg
Death is where something is not living, it is a state of being – if death is overcome and loses its power, the last enemy to be destroyed is death, and it is what is thrown into “the lake of fire” which is symbolic of “the second death” how can it be actual physical people thrown into an actual physical symbolic lake of fire to be destroyed and killed?
People have the breath of God (Spirit) in them while they are alive – when they die the dust returns to the earth, and the spirit returns to God – that Spirit part will not be cast into the symbolic lake of fire as it does not have any part in that lake – if you read the things that have there part in the lake of fire/second death it is all the deeds of the flesh, the carnal nature that is emnity against the Spirit of God, which are at variance to the fruits of the spirit.
I think that Acts 3:23 is referring to the destruction that was coming to Jerusalem in 70AD any that did not listen to Jesus and his disciples would be destroyed in “that” judgment. The times of refreshing that are talked about are the gospel going to the gentiles and salvation open to all and the old covenant totally replaced by the new covenant Acts 3:24 says that the prophets had spoken of “these days” the days mentioned there are not days to come in the milleniun they are the days preceding the 70AD judgment that they were exhorted to save themselves from.
Revelation is a symbolic book talking about beasts which are not literal beasts but kingdoms and women who are not literal women and stars which are not literal stars.
Samual
No I don't, for the simple reason that Christ died for all, and he said, all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth, John 5:28. God does not have a scale for sin, one sin deserves the same punishment as another.
Another reason is, only the sin against the Holy Spirit can not be forgiven; and the Holy Spirit was not given until after Christ ascended into heaven.
Jeroboam did evil, but he was not the only king who did that, nor do I think he was the worst.Georg
Meercat… Greetings!
Although there is much symbolic representation throughout Revelation, you cannot dispute what Jesus stated:
Matthew 25:41;46 (New American Standard Bible)
“Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels …These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.’”We can see that both human and spirit rebels will be destroyed by being thrown into this symbolic “lake of fire” which, as Revelation 21:8 supports by saying, “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons… which is the second death.”
There’s no sense in watering down the Words of Christ Jesus or the Apostles merely because it sounds too cruel or savage to your ears. The day of God’s fierce wrath will come against all mankind whether or not they like it. That fact was foretold in Zephaniah 1:14-18 and reiterated for us in Revelation 19:11-19. There is no escape but what is recorded for us at Revelation 7:9,14. We need to make the necessary spiritual changes to our lives in order to survive this Day of God’s wrath.
God bless!
meerkat
People have the breath of life, not the breath of God.
Psa 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Where do you read that man has an immortal soul; I assume that is what you believe, right?
And this is how death and the grave are destroyed.
1Cr 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;Once Satan is destroyed there will be no more sin, no more sin means no more death, no more death means no more grave.
Georg
Quote (Cindy @ Feb. 05 2009,11:07) Samual No I don't, for the simple reason that Christ died for all, and he said, all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth, John 5:28. God does not have a scale for sin, one sin deserves the same punishment as another.
Another reason is, only the sin against the Holy Spirit can not be forgiven; and the Holy Spirit was not given until after Christ ascended into heaven.
Jeroboam did evil, but he was not the only king who did that, nor do I think he was the worst.Georg
Hi Georg,
Jn 5 certainly shows all will be raised.But being raised is not in any way a sign of salvation as men die then face judgement
Of course most are in the second resurrection unto the sheep and goat judgement
Quote (Cindy @ Feb. 05 2009,11:32) meerkat People have the breath of life, not the breath of God.
Psa 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Where do you read that man has an immortal soul; I assume that is what you believe, right?
And this is how death and the grave are destroyed.
1Cr 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;Once Satan is destroyed there will be no more sin, no more sin means no more death, no more death means no more grave.
Georg
Hi Georg,
Of course the destruction of Satan is after the millenium and the final rebellion. The lake of fire was prepared for him and his worshippers will join him.[rev20,21 mt25]Quote (samual @ Feb. 05 2009,13:22) Meercat… Greetings! Although there is much symbolic representation throughout Revelation, you cannot dispute what Jesus stated:
Matthew 25:41;46 (New American Standard Bible)
“Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels …These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.’”We can see that both human and spirit rebels will be destroyed by being thrown into this symbolic “lake of fire” which, as Revelation 21:8 supports by saying, “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons… which is the second death.”
There’s no sense in watering down the Words of Christ Jesus or the Apostles merely because it sounds too cruel or savage to your ears. The day of God’s fierce wrath will come against all mankind whether or not they like it. That fact was foretold in Zephaniah 1:14-18 and reiterated for us in Revelation 19:11-19. There is no escape but what is recorded for us at Revelation 7:9,14. We need to make the necessary spiritual changes to our lives in order to survive this Day of God’s wrath.
God bless!
Samuel,I do agree that there is judgment – however to whom much is given more is required of that person …….. Matthew 25 speaks of nations being gathered, I am not convinced that it speaks of all individuals being gathered all into one place for there final destination for all eternity to be given to them, ie eternal torment for those who do not believe so they are necessarily all wicked.
When it says the nations are gathered I think it means national judgment not individual judgment.
Quote (meerkat @ Feb. 05 2009,06:18) Georg Death is where something is not living, it is a state of being – if death is overcome and loses its power, the last enemy to be destroyed is death, and it is what is thrown into “the lake of fire” which is symbolic of “the second death” how can it be actual physical people thrown into an actual physical symbolic lake of fire to be destroyed and killed?
People have the breath of God (Spirit) in them while they are alive – when they die the dust returns to the earth, and the spirit returns to God – that Spirit part will not be cast into the symbolic lake of fire as it does not have any part in that lake – if you read the things that have there part in the lake of fire/second death it is all the deeds of the flesh, the carnal nature that is emnity against the Spirit of God, which are at variance to the fruits of the spirit.
I think that Acts 3:23 is referring to the destruction that was coming to Jerusalem in 70AD any that did not listen to Jesus and his disciples would be destroyed in “that” judgment. The times of refreshing that are talked about are the gospel going to the gentiles and salvation open to all and the old covenant totally replaced by the new covenant Acts 3:24 says that the prophets had spoken of “these days” the days mentioned there are not days to come in the milleniun they are the days preceding the 70AD judgment that they were exhorted to save themselves from.
Great post Meerkat, I agree with you.Quote (Cindy @ Feb. 05 2009,13:32) meerkat People have the breath of life, not the breath of God.
Psa 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Where do you read that man has an immortal soul; I assume that is what you believe, right?
And this is how death and the grave are destroyed.
1Cr 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;Once Satan is destroyed there will be no more sin, no more sin means no more death, no more death means no more grave.
Georg
GeorgIn scripture there are 3 things talked about as pertaining to humans body, soul and spirit. Body and soul are subject to corruption whereas spirit comes from God and returns to God who gave it
Eccl 12:7, Is 42:5 speaks of breath being given and ruach, spirit also
In 1 Corinthians 15:42 we are told that just as there is a physical body there is a spiritual body – however most christians like to think that the spiritual body is only given to believers however it says that the resurrection of the dead is sown in corruption and raised in incorruption sown a natural body and raised a spiritual body. It does not say but only for believers.
I do not believe that it means that there is 2 types of resurrection of the dead. This says there is 1 resurrection but different times that those resurrections occur.
Hi mk,
We must not be found naked but clothed in Christ.
Even some at the wedding feast are found wrongly attired and cast out.
All will be raised but not all will be like to the man from heaven with a new heavenly body.Ps49
12Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.13This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah.
14Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.
15But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.
2Cor5
1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
Revelation 3:17
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:Revelation 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.Meerkat… Greetings!
Your remark is partly true: “I am not convinced that it speaks of all individuals being gathered all into one place for there final destination for all eternity to be given to them, ie., eternal torment for those who do not believe so they are necessarily all wicked.”
There is not enough space in any country to gather all humanity into one place for judgment. Obviously, then, we understand this battle of Armageddon to be a world-wide condition, exactly like it was in Noah’s day. (Matthew 24:37-39)
Also of importance is what the Scriptures tell us about those being destroyed at this time:
2 Peter 3:7 (New American Standard Bible)
“But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.”Revelation 21:8 (New American Standard Bible)
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”There can be little doubt that these Scriptures are speaking of individuals, not nations as such, but “immoral persons” and even the “ungodly men” – those persons that could care less about God or do not believe in God at all.
Your thoughts are awaited. God bless!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
