The scapegoat

[NickHassan]

Hi,
7And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

8And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.

9And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.

10But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

Jesus died for our sin.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

[NickHassan]

Hi,
The verses were from Lev16.
We need to come outside of the city sharing his shame and unpopularity.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Our sin caused his death

[Rabsheka]

Hi people,

But who was Azazel?

And he who lets the goat go to Azazel shall wash his clothes and bathe his body in water
Le 16:26

I have searched all I can on the name and still can't reach a decision/conclusion. Can anyone help? We know it is a proper noun, so it's someone not something.

Peace

[NickHassan]

Hi RS,
What version are you using as I cannot find the word in mine.

But is it not a name for one of the leading wicked angels in Enoch?

[Rabsheka]

Hi Nick

I'm using the ESV on my computer. It is not in the KJV, but Im sure it is in the NIV and RSV,etc.

I have not read Enoch as I shy away from non-canon writings (apocrypha), but I read along the way he was in there as the angel that introduced make-up and weapon making. Look it up at Wikipedia, which is interesting, but I would not trust any of the explanations as they are all profain.

Have peace

[Rabsheka]

Hi Nick

Further to my last post, the name is indeed in the ASV. The interesting thing is, is that if you accept the Lev 16:8-10 as it is rendered therein, the scapegoat is offered as an atonement for Azazel:

8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for Jehovah, and the other lot for Azazel. 9 And Aaron shall present the goat upon which the lot fell for Jehovah, and offer him for a sin-offering. 10 But the goat, on which the lot fell for Azazel, shall be set alive before Jehovah, to make atonement for him, to send him away for Azazel into the wilderness.
Lev 16:8-10 (ASV).

Now, as you point out, the other goat was symbolic of the Lord being offered for our sins, and it's blood was sprinked on the mercy seat on the second time the high priest went in on the day, and also on the horns of the alter outside the most holy place afterwards. Now the mercy seat represented the throne of God, while the alter represented the place in some part of heaven where the soles of the holy ones are kept until ressurection (refer Rev 6:9-11) This was sybolic of both God and the saints seeing and remembering our Lords sacrifice. Now, carrying this symbolism to the part of the ritual for the scapegoat, the high priest's hands transfer the sins of the congregation of the tribes of Israel to the beast, which is not killed (no blood) and despatched to the wilderness so Azazel can recognise them, and this part of the ritual made atonement for Azazel.

Now I don't know about you guys, but I find this most interesting indeed, for the day and ritual of atonement was the most significant in the calendar of Israelite/Jewish festivals, full of meaning and intent. It's just that I don't know what the ritual of the scapegoat really means – ANY HELP?

We must seek knowledge of Him

[NickHassan]

Hi RS,
KJV Lev 16
1And the LORD spake unto Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they offered before the LORD, and died;

2And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

3Thus shall Aaron come into the holy place: with a young bullock for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering.

4He shall put on the holy linen coat, and he shall have the linen breeches upon his flesh, and shall be girded with a linen girdle, and with the linen mitre shall he be attired: these are holy garments; therefore shall he wash his flesh in water, and so put them on.

5And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering.

6And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house.

7And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

8And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.

9And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.

10But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

I do not think the atonement was FOR any evil angelic creature but for a man.

Rather Azazel may represent handing over the goat to the world and it's god.

[Rabsheka]

Hi Nick

Yes, when you say “Rather Azazel may represent handing over the goat to the world and it's god”, I have always suspected this is exactly the case. However, this would unargueably mean that “Azazel” is the given name of Satan, and this has deep and abiding implications if it is so. However, even the scripture in your KJV which does not choose to use the name and substitutes the term “scapegoat” for it says “shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him”. This means the laying of the high priest's hands and releasing of the goat is itself actually another (form of) ritual of atonement – but who for.

As I said, I do not pretend to know the meaning of the riddle of the scapegoat. And it seems from all my reading, no one else does for certain either. I will continue to enquire of God

RS

[NickHassan]

Hi RS,
Any servant of Satan in scripture is called satan as that servant does the will of Satan. The atonement in Lev 16 seems to relate to the death of two sons of Aaron.

[Rabsheka]

Hi Nick

I now know basically what it is all about. It seems I have been given something. However, I need to do a little more scripture searching before I have “knowledge” on the matter.
S, I will do that today and get back on my conclusion. But you are right, it is NOT satan – but it is a spirit(s). I just need to find some other scripture that relates to the particular form of the atonement involved(must have two witnesses to establish a matter). It does not relate to the two sons of Aaron, for they were flesh and blood would be needed.

I'll get back

RS

[NickHassan]

Hi RS,
Lev 10
1And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.

2And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

3Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the LORD spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace.

Here was the sins of the sons that led to their death

[Rabsheka]

Greetings Nick and other brothers Who find interest
THE SCAPEGOAT AND WHO IS AZAZEL
Now what follows may seem long winded, but my preoccupation with it stems from the deep want to understand fully the rituals of atonement or Yom Kippur in Mosaic law, for we know from scripture that they are symbolic of our Lord taking our sins to himself and therefore provide a source of understanding to the most central doctrine of our faith. Accordingly, I will begin with the related Law scriptures in Leviticus:

6 “Aaron shall offer the bull as a sin offering for himself and shall make atonement for himself and for his house. 7 Then he shall take the two goats and set them before the Lord at the entrance of the tent of meeting. 8 And Aaron shall cast lots over the two goats, one lot for the Lord and the other lot for Azazel. 9 And Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for the Lord and use it as a sin offering, 10 but the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before the Lord to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.
Lev 16:6-10 (ESV)

23 “Then Aaron shall come into the tent of meeting and shall take off the linen garments that he put on when he went into the Holy Place and shall leave them there. 24 And he shall bathe his body in water in a holy place and put on his garments and come out and offer his burnt offering and the burnt offering of the people and make atonement for himself and for the people. 25 And the fat of the sin offering he shall burn on the altar. 26 And he who lets the goat go to Azazel shall wash his clothes and bathe his body in water, and afterward he may come into the camp.
Lev 16:23-26 (ESV)

Now the bathing of the high priest represents three things:

a. Noah and his family coming out of the deluge leaving behind a desolate world

b. the Israelites passing out of the Red Sea to freedom from slavery to their own place sanctified by God (if they kept the covenant)

c. Christian baptism, which is our appeal for a good conscience represented to God in heaven on our behalf by our Lord Jesus (if we retain and refine our faith)

As the scripture says:

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
1 Peter 3:18-22 (ESV)

Now the part of the ritual of atonement relating to items a, b and c above was the sin offering of the goat thus:

And Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for the Lord and use it as a sin offering,
Lev 16:9 (ESV)

However, look again at at 1 Peter 3:18-20:

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared

Peter says that spirit creatures who had been disobedient before the flood and held in prison received the Lord once alive again in the spirit after he has been put to death in the flesh.

Now who were these spirits? We are told in Genises:

1 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
Gen 6:1-4 (ESV)

They were angels who had misused their powers to adopt flesh in order to practice carnal knowledge, with dire consequences – they produced very violent offspring who were large in stature who multiplied the badness of man exceedingly.

AZAZEL

Now, according to Leviticus, the high priest performs a particular form of atonement for an individual or something named Azazel:

6 “Aaron shall offer the bull as a sin offering for himself and shall make atonement for himself and for his house. 7 Then he shall take the two goats and set them before the Lord at the entrance of the tent of meeting. 8 And Aaron shall cast lots over the two goats, one lot for the Lord and the other lot for Azazel. 9 And Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for the Lord and use it as a sin offering, 10 but the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before the Lord to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.
Lev 16:6-10 (ESV)

and also

20 “And when he has made an end of atoning for the Holy Place and the tent of meeting and the altar, he shall present the live goat. 21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, and confess over it all the iniquities of the people of Israel, and all their transgressions, all their sins. And he shall put them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who is in readiness. 22 The goat shall bear all their iniquities on itself to a remote area, and he shall let the goat go free in the wilderness.
Lev 16:20-22 (ESV)

It was left alive to be sent into the wilderness symbolically bearing the sins of the people of Israel, taken by a designated man.

Moreover, the man who delivered the goat into the wilderness was to wash both himself and also his garments while the High priest did not, but only washed himself. These washings were not matters of “uncleanness” for there was no withholding beriod before re-entering the congregation of the tribes who were stationed in general assembly all around.

Now we know that the high priest's garments represented the purity and righteous of our Lord now in heaven as eternal high priest, and thus did not require washing. The high priest himself did because he himself was sinful flesh (it's a baptism remember). So the ritual for Azazel involved both sin and unrighteous spirit.

Now we know that christians at the time of the apostles referred to writings attributed to Enoch, which are considered apocryphal, for they are many and fanciful. However, if so used it must have been that some part of them were at that time considered scripture and that part legitimised – just not necessarily all parts. For Jude quotes one in saying:

14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, 15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
Jude 1:14-15 (ESV)

And it is from these writings, perhaps mostly false, we learn something about Azazel:

According to Talmudical interpretation, the term “Azazel” designated a rugged mountain or precipice in the wilderness from which the goat was thrown down, using for it as an alternative the word “Ẓoḳ” ( ) (Yoma vi. 4). An etymology is found to suit this
interpretation. “Azazel”( ) is regarded as a compound of “az” ( ), strong or rough, and “el” ( ), mighty, therefore a strong mountain. This derivation is presented by a Baraita, cited Yoma 67b, that Azazel was the strongest of mountains. Another etymology (ib.) connects the word with the mythological “Uza” and “Azael,” the fallen angels, to whom a reference is believed to be found in Gen. vi. 2, 4. In accordance with this etymology, the sacrifice of the goat atones for the sin of fornication of which those angels were guilty (Gen. l.c.). WIKIPEDIA -Azazel

Further to this, we know that our Lord while in the flesh criticised the priesthood and their parties (scribes, pharasies and sadduces) for following the false traditions that had developed as verbal sayings that began even when the law itself was being given. These verbal traditions culminated in such beliefs as cabalah and the like, including the apocryphal works which were myths based on exageration of truth. However, the name Azazel is in Leviticus, therefore proving that Moses and Aaron knew who he was precisely as would many of the priests and levites. Therefore, it can be confidently deduced fron a rational combination of thes two sources that:

AZAZAL WAS THE HEAD ANGEL OF THOSE WHO WENT AFTER FLESH BEFORE THE FLOOD AND PLACED IN SPIRITUAL PRISON AND WERE PREACHED TO ABOUT THE GOSPEL BY OUR LORD BETWEEN THE TIME OF HIS DEATH AND HIS RESURECTION WHEN HIS CLOTHES WERE STILL STAINED.

So, who did the goat represent – our Lord again of course. Why into the wilderness – the wilderness represented the nothingness of the spirit prison for those therein could not see God's plan unfold. Why the sins on it's head – to show them that our Lord would take our sins to himself and so did defeat Satan. Why did he go to them – because the angels of heaved had not been yet divided in judgement, i.e. Satan and his croud had not yet been thrown to the earth, so these were still entitled to repent.

Did Azazel and his cohorts repent of their sin? Well, that is alltogether another matter. However, read Revelation Chapter 9

Greetings Nick and other brothers Who find interest
THE SCAPEGOAT AND WHO IS AZAZEL
Now what follows may seem long winded, but my preoccupation with it stems from the deep want to understand fully the rituals of atonement or Yom Kippur in Mosaic law, for we know from scripture that they are symbolic of our Lord taking our sins to himself and therefore provide a source of understanding to the most central doctrine of our faith. Accordingly, I will begin with the related Law scriptures in Leviticus:

6 “Aaron shall offer the bull as a sin offering for himself and shall make atonement for himself and for his house. 7 Then he shall take the two goats and set them before the Lord at the entrance of the tent of meeting. 8 And Aaron shall cast lots over the two goats, one lot for the Lord and the other lot for Azazel. 9 And Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for the Lord and use it as a sin offering, 10 but the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before the Lord to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.
Lev 16:6-10 (ESV)

23 “Then Aaron shall come into the tent of meeting and shall take off the linen garments that he put on when he went into the Holy Place and shall leave them there. 24 And he shall bathe his body in water in a holy place and put on his garments and come out and offer his burnt offering and the burnt offering of the people and make atonement for himself and for the people. 25 And the fat of the sin offering he shall burn on the altar. 26 And he who lets the goat go to Azazel shall wash his clothes and bathe his body in water, and afterward he may come into the camp.
Lev 16:23-26 (ESV)

Now the bathing of the high priest represents three things:

a. Noah and his family coming out of the deluge leaving behind a desolate world

b. the Israelites passing out of the Red Sea to freedom from slavery to their own place sanctified by God (if they kept the covenant)

c. Christian baptism, which is our appeal for a good conscience represented to God in heaven on our behalf by our Lord Jesus (if we retain and refine our faith)

As the scripture says:

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
1 Peter 3:18-22 (ESV)

Now the part of the ritual of atonement relating to items a, b and c above was the sin offering of the goat thus:

And Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for the Lord and use it as a sin offering,
Lev 16:9 (ESV)

However, look again at at 1 Peter 3:18-20:

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared

Peter says that spirit creatures who had been disobedient before the flood and held in prison received the Lord once alive again in the spirit after he has been put to death in the flesh.

Now who were these spirits? We are told in Genises:

1 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
Gen 6:1-4 (ESV)

They were angels who had misused their powers to adopt flesh in order to practice carnal knowledge, with dire consequences – they produced very violent offspring who were large in stature who multiplied the badness of man exceedingly.

AZAZEL

Now, according to Leviticus, the high priest performs a particular form of atonement for an individual or something named Azazel:

6 “Aaron shall offer the bull as a sin offering for himself and shall make atonement for himself and for his house. 7 Then he shall take the two goats and set them before the Lord at the entrance of the tent of meeting. 8 And Aaron shall cast lots over the two goats, one lot for the Lord and the other lot for Azazel. 9 And Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for the Lord and use it as a sin offering, 10 but the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before the Lord to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel.
Lev 16:6-10 (ESV)

and also

20 “And when he has made an end of atoning for the Holy Place and the tent of meeting and the altar, he shall present the live goat. 21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, and confess over it all the iniquities of the people of Israel, and all their transgressions, all their sins. And he shall put them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who is in readiness. 22 The goat sha
ll bear all their iniquities on itself to a remote area, and he shall let the goat go free in the wilderness.
Lev 16:20-22 (ESV)

It was left alive to be sent into the wilderness symbolically bearing the sins of the people of Israel, taken by a designated man.

Moreover, the man who delivered the goat into the wilderness was to wash both himself and also his garments while the High priest did not, but only washed himself. These washings were not matters of “uncleanness” for there was no withholding beriod before re-entering the congregation of the tribes who were stationed in general assembly all around.

Now we know that the high priest's garments represented the purity and righteous of our Lord now in heaven as eternal high priest, and thus did not require washing. The high priest himself did because he himself was sinful flesh (it's a baptism remember). So the ritual for Azazel involved both sin and unrighteous spirit.

Now we know that christians at the time of the apostles referred to writings attributed to Enoch, which are considered apocryphal, for they are many and fanciful. However, if so used it must have been that some part of them were at that time considered scripture and that part legitimised – just not necessarily all parts. For Jude quotes one in saying:

14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, 15 to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
Jude 1:14-15 (ESV)

And it is from these writings, perhaps mostly false, we learn something about Azazel:

According to Talmudical interpretation, the term “Azazel” designated a rugged mountain or precipice in the wilderness from which the goat was thrown down, using for it as an alternative the word “Ẓoḳ” ( ) (Yoma vi. 4). An etymology is found to suit this interpretation. “Azazel”( ) is regarded as a compound of “az” ( ), strong or rough, and “el” ( ), mighty, therefore a strong mountain. This derivation is presented by a Baraita, cited Yoma 67b, that Azazel was the strongest of mountains. Another etymology (ib.) connects the word with the mythological “Uza” and “Azael,” the fallen angels, to whom a reference is believed to be found in Gen. vi. 2, 4. In accordance with this etymology, the sacrifice of the goat atones for the sin of fornication of which those angels were guilty (Gen. l.c.). WIKIPEDIA -Azazel
Further to this, we know that our Lord while in the flesh criticised the priesthood and their parties (scribes, pharasies and sadduces) for following the false traditions that had developed as verbal sayings that began even when the law itself was being given. These verbal traditions culminated in such beliefs as cabalah and the like, including the apocryphal works which were myths based on exageration of truth. However, the name Azazel is in Leviticus, therefore proving that Moses and Aaron knew who he was precisely as would many of the priests and levites. Therefore, it can be confidently deduced fron a rational combination of thes two sources that:
AZAZAL WAS THE HEAD ANGEL OF THOSE WHO WENT AFTER FLESH BEFORE THE FLOOD AND PLACED IN SPIRITUAL PRISON AND WERE PREACHED TO ABOUT THE GOSPEL BY OUR LORD BETWEEN THE TIME OF HIS DEATH AND HIS RESURECTION WHEN HIS CLOTHES WERE STILL STAINED.
So, who did the goat represent – our Lord again of course. Why into the wilderness – the wilderness represented the nothingness of the spirit prison for those therein could not see God's plan unfold. Why the sins on it's head – to show them that our Lord would take our sins to himself and so did defeat Satan. Why did he go to them – because the angels of heaved had not been yet divided in judgement, i.e. Satan and his croud had not yet been thrown to the earth, so these were still entitled to repent.
Did Azazel and his cohorts repent of their sin? Well, that is alltogether another matter. However, read Revelation Chapter 9

[NickHassan]

Hi RS,
You say
“However, look again at at 1 Peter 3:18-20:

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, 20 because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared

Peter says that spirit creatures who had been disobedient before the flood and held in prison received the Lord once alive again in the spirit after he has been put to death in the flesh.

Now who were these spirits? We are told in Genises:

1 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
Gen 6:1-4 (ESV)

They were angels who had misused their powers to adopt flesh in order to practice carnal knowledge, with dire consequences – they produced very violent offspring who were large in stature who multiplied the badness of man exceedingly.”

I do not agree completely.
If you look at the next chapter of 1 Peter, Ch4

” 3For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

4Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

5Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

6For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. “

It seems it is the men who died in the time of Noah and whom God regretted killing and who had no Law.

[Rabsheka]

Hi Nick

What do you not agree with completely? Are you saying that the Lord did not at all preach to fallen angels but only to pre-deluge men? Or even just all men dead who had not heard the Gospel from adam's off-spring down and not these angels? I do not think that the two are mutually exclusive.

You began a subject called “The Scapegoat”. I have proposed that atonement for men requires blood and atonement for angels does not and that this is what the scapegoat is all about, misnoma that it is because of the understandable weakness of the original KJV translation.

Now it is not that I am attempting to show myself as being someone, for the realisation came from God, so I cannot boast. But if you want a “man's” reason why I felt it necessary to investigate this matter, it is because I take the saying of our Lord “this means everlasting life, them taking in knowledge of you” very seriously as you seem to do. For I have this computer, it is stacked with software that can do wonderous things, but if it is not doing the things of God, it might be doing less righteous things – like collecting porn or some such. Moreover, I have cut myself off from the “Denominations” and therefore hope that this website is to some extent a congregation of likeminded people.

So, should it be that you are interested in putting up and discussing the topic “Preaching To The Dead”, it is something I have not thought about and would be most willing to search and discuss.

May the undeserved kindness of our Lord be with you

RB

[NickHassan]

Hi RS,
Yes I do not think any angels ever are preached to.
God does not offer them mercy as He does to men.

“He knows we are but flesh”

[Rabsheka]

Hi Nick

Why do you think God does not offer preaching and mercy to angels? What is the basis of your judgement against them and what does our flesh have to do with it (“He knows we are but flesh”)? You have been shown that God has mercy for all his creatures, yet would you choose not to believe for the sake of your own pride and belief in the superiority of your flesh. It is written ” I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy”. Moreover, our Lord tells us that we must hate the fact that we are flesh in order to enter the Kingdom of heaven, meaning spirit existence is superior to flesh, and this is what you must choose in order to enter it.

You face this choice at this very point – make it!

May the undeserved kindness from our Lord be with you.

[NickHassan]

Hi RS,
Where does God say angels are offered any mercy?

[Rabsheka]

Hi Nick

I have already given you the scritures above, in Lev 16 and 1 Pet 3. You have chosen to deny this but have failed to give me a scripture that refutes me. This is the point of the whole thing, that is the scapegoat – it is proving that “God is not partial” like other judges. If you were an angel and God said “well, I'm going to give sinful men options that I will not aford you”, what would that do to his “angel vote”. Just like us, there was a point where the angels had to make a decision (vote) being either for God or with Satan, and we know that two thirds of them chose God. Why, for among other things they saw that he was impartial and Satan was not. Make no mistake. Do not hold as nothing the importance of angels in this battle for the hearts of Gods creatures. God gave both angels and man free will, and if a majority of angels had have sided with Satan, then the basis of God's soverignty would not be love but “who has the biggest stick”. (I do not think that this was ever a chance by the way. I know my God is a consuming fire and fear his judgements, but I love and trust him because he loves me and because of who he has proved to be)

Now I am getting the impression that in saying that God does not offer angels mercy you may be one who holds the book(s) of Enoch as being inspired. For in them Azazel seeks redemption but God denies him. Now if this is so, I will not agree with you perhaps. But I will respect you. So, could you please tell me straight if this is the case.

May the undeserved kindness from our Lord be with you.

[NickHassan]

Hi RS,
Men are judged and some consigned to the fire prepared for the devil and his angels.[mt25]
No judgement of mercy for angels appears in scripture.

[Author]

Posts