The Root

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 29 2007,12:04)

Quote (Not3in1 @ July 29 2007,11:42) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 28 2007,10:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2007,08:46) Hi not3, But would you suggest things happened THROUGH a being who did not even  exist? …….exist yet!  Yes! I already answered your question.  Your second question is basically asking the same thing.  God created everything *through* Christ.  Christ did not have to be phyically present for this to be the case.   Hi not3, Do you think God created what is through one who was not but would be??

Yes and no.

Jesus would be…..but he also existed within the Father. The potential of him was “with” the Father. Of course, you and I disagree on this. Nevertheless, it is an explaination and scripture does lend itself to this belief.

[NickHassan]

Hi Not3,
Were all things created through someone who was with the Father but only potentially existed?

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 29 2007,12:20)

Hi Not3, Were all things created through someone who was with the Father but only potentially existed?

Well……I see your point. Potentially, yes, but of course we know that all the LORD's plans will succeed.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
We are speaking of the Word,
not a thought or a plan.

[Not3in1]

As you interpret the Word, yes…..

[NickHassan]

hmmm

[Not3in1]

Hmmmm – I love it when you do that.

Many here interpret the “Word” to be different things. You are currently in a debate with Gene over what this means. Jodi and others have contributed what they believe the “Word” means………………….all different ideas!

Hmmmmm, indeed!

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 29 2007,12:03)

Hi 94, The shoot grows from the root.

Hi Nick:

And so, how is it that David (the shoot) grows from the root (Jesus)?

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
All things came through the firstborn of creation.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 30 2007,06:48)

Hi 94, All things came through the firstborn of creation.

Hi Nick:

What does “the firstborn of creation” mean to you?

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
The plan of God is for the Son to have preeminence in all things.

Colossians
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 30 2007,07:20)

Hi 94, The plan of God is for the Son to have preeminence in all things. Colossians 15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Hi Nick:

I agree with all that you have said here, but how does that relate to him being the “root” of David?

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
David, and all the rest of creation, derives his existence originally through the work of the monogenes Son who was sent into the world.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Is 11
1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; “

Here we know that the Christ derives from Jesse.

Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Now we can know Christ is both the offspring and the predecessor of David.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 30 2007,08:31)

Hi 94, David, and all the rest of creation, derives his existence originally through the work of the monogenes Son who was sent into the world.

So Jesus is really the Father of the one whom he would be a future descendent of?

Jesus did the “work” of creation?

Nick, do you believe Jesus is God now?

The LORD, who is God, laid the foundations of the world with his own hands……..no Jesus is present in these verses that describe God's supreme Creating abilities and work.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Really.
All things came through him .
God is the Creator but uses instruments to do the work.
Indeed Christ is the root of David and he was also before Abraham.
Do you not believe his words?

[Not3in1]

Thanks for the chat, Nick. I always appreciate your willingness to keep things running here on HeavenNet. But I'm too tired today to go in circles.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 30 2007,09:03)

Hi 94, Is 11 1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; “ Here we know that the Christ derives from Jesse. Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. Now we can know Christ is both the offspring and the predecessor of David.

Hi Nick:

You say:

Quote

Hi 94, Is 11 1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; “ Here we know that the Christ derives from Jesse.

On this much we are in agreement.

But then you say:

Quote

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. Now we can know Christ is both the offspring and the predecessor of David.

Give me scripture showing me that he was the predecessor of David.

I can give you the following scriptures that show he was foreordained which is what I believe.

Quote

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Quote

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad

Quote

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me F4 freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

[942767]

Hi Nick:

Also, what does Jesus mean when he says that he is the “root of David?

Following is the definition according to Strong's Concordance:

Quote

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon Strong's Number:   4491  Browse Lexicon   Original Word Word Origin rJivza apparently a primary word Transliterated Word TDNT Entry Rhiza 6:985,985 Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech hrid'-zah      Noun Feminine   Definition a root that which like a root springs from a root, a sprout, shoot metaph. offspring, progeny

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

And David calls his son Jesus his Lord.

[Author]

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