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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,13:10) Hi Tow,
Your god is not our God.Agreed. YHVH would not copulate with a virgin human like so many other pagan gods supposedly did.
Quote Perhaps you are serving the god of this world? According to your GT, 'satan' is the god of this world. And since he seems to be winning, he must be the most powerful god in Christianity.
In Tanakh, YHVH is G-d of the world. So you must decide of you agree with Son of Light when you see 'satan' as YHVH or not.
Quote He hates our God and goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.
You don't even know the name of you god. He is either Jesus or his daddy, 'god the father'.Quote (david @ Dec. 30 2007,13:48) Quote No, they [Israelites] will not have to go anywhere. People will come to them. -tow
I'm wondering what you think is going to be happening to people in the final part of the days. I'm wondering how you think this will end. Not everyone today has the internet. Billions don't even have “clean” drinking water and a billion are lacking food. These ones don't know of Israel. What reason do they have to go to Israel?
Because it is prophecied? I do not claim to know any specifics, only G-d does.
Quote The God of the Hebrew scriptures is described as a God of “justice.” I'm wondering what you think will happen. So by making a distinction like this, are you agreeing with Son of Light by saying that the Hebrew G-d is not the Christian god?
In any case, I am not interested in speculation.
Quote Of course, in the Christian scriptures, Jesus told his followers to “Go” and make disciples of people of all the nations. (mat 28:19,20) and he fortold that this preaching work to all the nations of the good news of God's kingdom would take place before the end. (Mat 24:14) We've been through this before. Here is what Jesus prefaced this with
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray.
Who is the 'you' here? The disciples. So Jesus was saying all of this would happen in their lifetime. Unless they are still alive, this is false prophecy. Where are the disciples alive in Jesus day hiding?
Quote To me, that seems fair. People in huts and villages in hundreds of lands are being told the good news, people in hundreds of languages and tongues. They are being given a choice on whose side they want to be. Whose 'side'? How bogus. You tell people 'accept Jesus or burn in hell'. What a choice. Is that the 'gospel' ('good news')? The thinking people laugh you off, the superstitious fall for it.
Quote But I'm wondering how it is supposed to work in your mind. Is God going to come and destroy the wicked? Did the wicked actually recieve any warning from God's supposed people, fleshly Israel? How is the God of Justice going to carry this out, exactly?
No, I don't see G-d coming and destroying the 'wicked'. I see the 'wicked' bowing their knee. Only Christianity has this fetish with torturing people for their sins.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,14:45) Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 31 2007,05:33) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,02:44) Hi Tow,
If you only accept PORTIONS of the OT then your foundation is not the OT.(1) OT is not Tanakh (2) My 'foundation' is not found in words written on paper, but a living G-d.
Quote So please do not quote it lest you later decide what you quote is in fact an unacceptable PORTION. I do as I please. Sorry if you would like to limit me but you are just another man.
Quote It is rather useless to propose that you are in any way to be taken seriously in any matter relating to the bible.
Then why do you continue to post your 1-3 liners in response to me since you have repeated this same sentiment at least 5 times already?
Hi Tow,
So as a supposed servant of God you have ascribed to yourself the right to accept only portions of the OT.You got it. How long has it taken you to come to this conclusion?
Quote You thus call Moses and Elisha and John the baptist liars and deceivers yet seem to feel your own righteousness is established. No, I call these men mistaken when they attributed to G-d things that should not have been. When I did something in error but felt G-d was leading me, it was not an intentional error. It was later when I realized my error.
And I don't accept John the Baptist. Why you want to constantly throw him in, I do not know.
Quote You deny God has any power to overule nature and reverse disease and even death. I think I will keep a tab soon. Is this the 40th time you have misrepresented me or have you exceeded this? This is getting old. You have no 'game' except to attack my willingness to disregard parts of Tanakh I feel are more man and much less G-d. But you have yet to offer an actual refutation of the what this thread is about. You just post garbage to pad your post count.
G-d has all power, man does not. That is why you hear of so many miraculous healings, but no verifiable healings via a faith healer. No man gets the credit, and that includes your pagan god-man, Jesus.
Quote You believe you are a worshiper of the true God but can point only to kinship with Noah to suggest that link. Fortunately, I do not have to prove anything of my relationship to you. You are not my G-d. You are just a weak Christian who worships words of a page.
Quote You are utterly deceived so should not try to lead others.
And your posts are utterly devoid of value beyond taking up database space. All you do is focus on your attempt on degrading my character because you think it will make someone stop reading my posts.Hi Tow,
Do you agree with Isaiah's reference to a young woman?
Our God does not have a body but is spirit.
Your attempts to minimise Him continue.Quote You tell people 'accept Jesus or burn in hell'. Wrong again. The torturous burning in hell (hades/sheol) is nowhere taught in scripture. sheol/hades is the common grave of mankind. We are actually told that “hades” (hell) along with death would be thrown into the lake of fire. Why would fire be thrown into fire?
Fire is used as a symbol of destruction.Anyway…
Quote Whose 'side'? How bogus. You tell people 'accept Jesus or burn in hell'. What a choice. Is that the 'gospel' ('good news')? The thinking people laugh you off, the superstitious fall for it. No, we preach the “good news of the kingdom” the same kingdom Daniel foretold would crush all these other human governments.
MATTHEW 24:14
“And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”Quote No, I don't see G-d coming and destroying the 'wicked'. I see the 'wicked' bowing their knee. Only Christianity has this fetish with torturing people for their sins.
So the patterns God has set of destroying the wicked (sodom and gomorrah; the flood of Noah's day)?
So, all the wicked are just going to turn over a new leaf and live happily ever after? Wonder God didn't do that in the time of Noah. Oh, that's right. It was because they were not fit to live. And so the judge of all the earth cut them off. I mean, what do you think of him doing that? Do you think he was wrong?
Quote We've been through this before. Here is what Jesus prefaced this with Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray.
Who is the 'you' here? The disciples. So Jesus was saying all of this would happen in their lifetime. Unless they are still alive, this is false prophecy. Where are the disciples alive in Jesus day hiding?
Mat 28:19,20 made plain that his disciples would “go” and make disciples, teaching them all that he taught them, including to “go” and make disciples….etc.
I think we should really consider Jesus prophecy and how it matches up so well with the last century.Quote So by making a distinction like this, are you agreeing with Son of Light by saying that the Hebrew G-d is not the Christian god?
No, I was pointing out that I was quoting from the part of hte Bible you accept, where he is called a “God of justice” or a lover of justice. I think it's in Deut.Quote Is this the 40th time you have misrepresented me or have you exceeded this? –tow.
Nick, play fair.
Quote G-d has all power, man does not. That is why you hear of so many miraculous healings, but no verifiable healings via a faith healer. No man gets the credit, and that includes your pagan god-man, Jesus. Yes, faith healers are quaks. But Jesus healed things that weren't merely pycho samatic.
Is that the right word?
Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 31 2007,15:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,13:10) Hi Tow,
Your god is not our God.Agreed. YHVH would not copulate with a virgin human like so many other pagan gods supposedly did.
Quote Perhaps you are serving the god of this world? According to your GT, 'satan' is the god of this world. And since he seems to be winning, he must be the most powerful god in Christianity.
In Tanakh, YHVH is G-d of the world. So you must decide of you agree with Son of Light when you see 'satan' as YHVH or not.
Quote He hates our God and goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.
You don't even know the name of you god. He is either Jesus or his daddy, 'god the father'.
Hi Tow,
Would you expect the Son of God to speak of his Father as the descriptive name He gave Himself?
Families speak of their father in more personal ways.Hi Tow,
Satan appears in your OT, but O, that's right, you allegorised poor old Job.
You continue the hatchet job on God and His works through men.
You really think men are cleverer than the sacred Word?Quote So as a supposed servant of God you have ascribed to yourself the right to accept only portions of the OT. –nick
“You got it.”–tow
Could you please go over the parts that you believe and the parts you don't.
“Behold, My servant shall prosper, he shall be exalted and lifted up, . . . for he shot up right forth as a sapling, and as a root out of a dry ground . . . He was despised, and forsaken of men, a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as one from whom men hide their face: He was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried . . . He was crushed because of our iniquities: The chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his stripes we were healed. All we like sheep did go astray, we turned every one to his own way . . . He was oppressed, though he humbled himself and opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, . . . he was cut off out of the land of the living. . . . And they made his grave with the wicked.”—JP.
Could we once more go over what you believe this means. I know you don't believe it is referring to the Messiah. Who then?
Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 31 2007,15:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,13:10) Hi Tow,
Your god is not our God.Agreed. YHVH would not copulate with a virgin human like so many other pagan gods supposedly did.
Quote Perhaps you are serving the god of this world? According to your GT, 'satan' is the god of this world. And since he seems to be winning, he must be the most powerful god in Christianity.
In Tanakh, YHVH is G-d of the world. So you must decide of you agree with Son of Light when you see 'satan' as YHVH or not.
Quote He hates our God and goes about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.
You don't even know the name of you god. He is either Jesus or his daddy, 'god the father'.
Hi Tow,
Indeed the Father is the Creator God of heaven and earth.
However the rebellious human occupants of earth are controlled by another being, Satan.
The Son can set you free and you will be free indeed.Hi Tow,
Elijah was aniointed by the Spirit of God in power and Elisha was given a double portion and raised the dead.
Were these just old wives tales too?It must be hard for you to have to decide what is true and what is false in the OT.
Clearly you feel you have an even greater portion if you can judge these men ?
Ok, I remember now. You think it is referring to “Israel.”
I'm wondering how this part applies to Israel:
“he was cut off out of the land of the living. . . . And they made his grave with the wicked.” JPThis is an interesting site:
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/m.sion/jmiisa53.htmQuote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,23:01) Hi Tow,
Do you agree with Isaiah's reference to a young woman?
Our God does not have a body but is spirit.
Your attempts to minimise Him continue.
No, you are wrong. My G-d has no body. Christianity brings G-d down to the level of men by saying he is Jesus or that Jesus was the product of G-d and Mary. 100% pagan.And yes, 'almah' means 'young woman'. The 'young woman' in Is 7:14 is Isaiah's wife and Immanuel was his son.
So I do not minimize Him but Christianity has done so for almost 2000 years.
Quote (david @ Dec. 30 2007,23:03) Quote You tell people 'accept Jesus or burn in hell'. Wrong again. The torturous burning in hell (hades/sheol) is nowhere taught in scripture. sheol/hades is the common grave of mankind. We are actually told that “hades” (hell) along with death would be thrown into the lake of fire. Why would fire be thrown into fire?
Fire is used as a symbol of destruction.So you are merely saying this is symbolic and there is no literal lake of fire but that both death and wicked people will be annialated at the end of days?
I keep forgetting that there are so many different beliefs in Christianity and that yours is the JW one (since you are JW). Of course JWs are considered a a cult and not real Christians but then again, you say the same about the others.
Yet your belief of hell and the lake of fire is not shared with millions of other Christians. They are all breathing signs of relief because they have their 'fire insurance'. They preach hellfire and brimstone from the pulpit Sunday after Sunday.
Quote Anyway… Quote Whose 'side'? How bogus. You tell people 'accept Jesus or burn in hell'. What a choice. Is that the 'gospel' ('good news')? The thinking people laugh you off, the superstitious fall for it. No, we preach the “good news of the kingdom” the same kingdom Daniel foretold would crush all these other human governments.
MATTHEW 24:14
“And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”Do you? Do you tell them they have to convert to a JW to experience this 'good news'? Then you are offering them bad news and not good. You are telling them “you have to be part of our particular branch of Christianity to experience this 'good news' though”.
Quote Quote No, I don't see G-d coming and destroying the 'wicked'. I see the 'wicked' bowing their knee. Only Christianity has this fetish with torturing people for their sins.
So the patterns God has set of destroying the wicked (sodom and gomorrah; the flood of Noah's day)?Wait, I thought Christians said that G-d is in the age of grace now? Why would a graceful G-d want to kill these people?
In any case, when these two events took place, was it the end of days? No, the earth was still the earth, and the messianic age was not upon its people. All things will be different then. There are really no passages that I am aware of that say the wicked who are live when the messianic age will be destroyed.
Quote So, all the wicked are just going to turn over a new leaf and live happily ever after? Wonder God didn't do that in the time of Noah. Oh, that's right. It was because they were not fit to live. And so the judge of all the earth cut them off. I mean, what do you think of him doing that? Do you think he was wrong? I do not judge G-d. I don't question these events because they were caused by G-d, not humans. It is the killing of people groups, including children, by men who said G-d told them to do it that I do not accept.
Will they turn over a new leaf? I have no idea. Again, I'm not into speculation. My spirituality focuses very little on the afterlife, the actual messianic age or anything similar. Like those who follow Judaism, I focus on what my life is now and how I can serve G-d and my fellow man.
Quote Quote We've been through this before. Here is what Jesus prefaced this with Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray.
Who is the 'you' here? The disciples. So Jesus was saying all of this would happen in their lifetime. Unless they are still alive, this is false prophecy. Where are the disciples alive in Jesus day hiding?
Mat 28:19,20 made plain that his disciples would “go” and make disciples, teaching them all that he taught them, including to “go” and make disciples….etc.
I think we should really consider Jesus prophecy and how it matches up so well with the last century.What does this have to do with Mat 24? Jesus was speaking with them specifically and said they would experience these things. Your apologetics is showing.
Quote Quote So by making a distinction like this, are you agreeing with Son of Light by saying that the Hebrew G-d is not the Christian god?
No, I was pointing out that I was quoting from the part of hte Bible you accept, where he is called a “God of justice” or a lover of justice. I think it's in Deut.
What does this have to do with the wicked being destroyed in the messianic age? Our justice is not His so I'll leave it up to Him as to what happens to such people in that day.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 30 2007,23:03) Hi Tow,
Did God do any miracles in the OT or were they all magic tricks done by deceivers?
Ah, Nick, the word twister. I never said those people were deceivers but again your lack of comprehension prevents you from seeing this. Or again, you are just twisting because I now think that is your true purpose here. I rarely see you agreeing with anyone. You are a bot who keeps threads going so the board will not seem inactive.In that Nick, you are the deceiver.
Quote (david @ Dec. 30 2007,23:07) Quote G-d has all power, man does not. That is why you hear of so many miraculous healings, but no verifiable healings via a faith healer. No man gets the credit, and that includes your pagan god-man, Jesus. Yes, faith healers are quaks. But Jesus healed things that weren't merely pycho samatic.
Is that the right word?
How can this be verified? And why can others no do healing like he did since he said that those following after him would do greater things than even he did?Joh 14:12 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.
Does this mean nobody truly believes in Jesus because no one has been able to heal like Jesus did?
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