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Hi KJ,
Rev 20
1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 19 2008,18:06) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 20 2008,10:31) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 19 2008,14:03) Hi KJ,
Scripture says in the anointed NT which interprets the anointed OT
that Jesus is the Son of David and the son of Mary, who was a virgin.Do you need further proof or have you lost faith in the Spirit who wrote the NT?
You say
“Personally, I think much of who Jesus is tied in with God promising the Jewish people that they will be a light to the nations (Gentiles). By themselves, have they? Would mankind even have access to the Tanach if Jesus had never been born? The Jewish people weren't being very strong lights so Jesus brought billions to the knowledge of Yahweh.'You must make up your mind.
Either Jesus is an anointed man who he said he is
Or he is an outright liar and an enemy of the God of Israel.I have made my choice and at some time so did you but now you give him some credit but say he lied?
But where does the NT say he was the promised son of David who would bring about the world to come? I know about the second coming, but much of that does not match the world to come as you see in the OT.Jesus was called Christ. All Christ means is anointed. Priests, kings, and prophets (I think) are referred to as anointed.
That is why I'm thinking that Jesus was not meant to be what the Jews were looking for. He said scripture spoke of him, and he said this while on earth. So where Nick? Because I want to find him, not just pretend and have “blind faith”. Blind faith was fine was I was a new Christian but after awhile blind faith means I am not growing.
I've already stated that Jesus was the one to change my life. I have no plan on discarding him in my life but I'm not entirely certain he is what most Christians have been told he is.
Hi KJ,
Matthew 1:1
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Luke 1:32
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Romans 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:5By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
But Nick, how can he be called the son of David if Joseph is not his father? That is something brought up which everyone seem to gloss over and then try to prove with NT verses. How can both be true when only one can be true?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 19 2008,18:07) Hi KJ,
Rev 20
1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
How does this match OT prophecies? I want something I can start with, something to build on.Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 20 2008,11:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 19 2008,18:06) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 20 2008,10:31) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 19 2008,14:03) Hi KJ,
Scripture says in the anointed NT which interprets the anointed OT
that Jesus is the Son of David and the son of Mary, who was a virgin.Do you need further proof or have you lost faith in the Spirit who wrote the NT?
You say
“Personally, I think much of who Jesus is tied in with God promising the Jewish people that they will be a light to the nations (Gentiles). By themselves, have they? Would mankind even have access to the Tanach if Jesus had never been born? The Jewish people weren't being very strong lights so Jesus brought billions to the knowledge of Yahweh.'You must make up your mind.
Either Jesus is an anointed man who he said he is
Or he is an outright liar and an enemy of the God of Israel.I have made my choice and at some time so did you but now you give him some credit but say he lied?
But where does the NT say he was the promised son of David who would bring about the world to come? I know about the second coming, but much of that does not match the world to come as you see in the OT.Jesus was called Christ. All Christ means is anointed. Priests, kings, and prophets (I think) are referred to as anointed.
That is why I'm thinking that Jesus was not meant to be what the Jews were looking for. He said scripture spoke of him, and he said this while on earth. So where Nick? Because I want to find him, not just pretend and have “blind faith”. Blind faith was fine was I was a new Christian but after awhile blind faith means I am not growing.
I've already stated that Jesus was the one to change my life. I have no plan on discarding him in my life but I'm not entirely certain he is what most Christians have been told he is.
Hi KJ,
Matthew 1:1
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Luke 1:32
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Romans 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:5By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
But Nick, how can he be called the son of David if Joseph is not his father? That is something brought up which everyone seem to gloss over and then try to prove with NT verses. How can both be true when only one can be true?
Hi KJ,
He is the adopted son of Joseph.
That seems to be good enough for God but not for others?Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 20 2008,11:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 19 2008,18:07) Hi KJ,
Rev 20
1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
How does this match OT prophecies? I want something I can start with, something to build on.
Hi KJ,
Then you should start with the Son of God and his revelations about himself.Mt22
41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,42Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Mt 26
52Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.53Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
54But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
55In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.
56But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.
Matthew 21:42
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?Mark 15:28
And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.Lk4
20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
22And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?
John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.John 7:42
Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?Compare Jn 7 c Isaiah
37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Isaiah 55
1Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without priceIs44
3For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:Isaiah 58:
11And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
John 13:18
I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.John 19:24
They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.John 19:28
After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.Either accept his word or call him a liar.
There is no room for both views.Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 20 2008,11:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 19 2008,18:06) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 20 2008,10:31) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 19 2008,14:03) Hi KJ,
Scripture says in the anointed NT which interprets the anointed OT
that Jesus is the Son of David and the son of Mary, who was a virgin.Do you need further proof or have you lost faith in the Spirit who wrote the NT?
You say
“Personally, I think much of who Jesus is tied in with God promising the Jewish people that they will be a light to the nations (Gentiles). By themselves, have they? Would mankind even have access to the Tanach if Jesus had never been born? The Jewish people weren't being very strong lights so Jesus brought billions to the knowledge of Yahweh.'You must make up your mind.
Either Jesus is an anointed man who he said he is
Or he is an outright liar and an enemy of the God of Israel.I have made my choice and at some time so did you but now you give him some credit but say he lied?
But where does the NT say he was the promised son of David who would bring about the world to come? I know about the second coming, but much of that does not match the world to come as you see in the OT.Jesus was called Christ. All Christ means is anointed. Priests, kings, and prophets (I think) are referred to as anointed.
That is why I'm thinking that Jesus was not meant to be what the Jews were looking for. He said scripture spoke of him, and he said this while on earth. So where Nick? Because I want to find him, not just pretend and have “blind faith”. Blind faith was fine was I was a new Christian but after awhile blind faith means I am not growing.
I've already stated that Jesus was the one to change my life. I have no plan on discarding him in my life but I'm not entirely certain he is what most Christians have been told he is.
Hi KJ,
Matthew 1:1
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
Luke 1:32
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Romans 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:5By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
But Nick, how can he be called the son of David if Joseph is not his father? That is something brought up which everyone seem to gloss over and then try to prove with NT verses. How can both be true when only one can be true?
keyonn How can He be the Son of David, He lived a thousand years before him. He is from the same lineage from the House of Judah, as was Maria His Mother.Peace and Love MrsIM4Truth
Hello SAYSF,
The phrase “Son of” to the Jews of that era meant 'of the lineage of”. The Jews in Yeshua's day called themselves 'Sons of Abraham'. Obviously Abraham did not personally sire them all, but each could claim lineage through Abraham. Hope this helps.Hi Is 1.18,
Telling the opposing jews their father was neither God, nor Abraham nor Moses but Satan,
still seemed to strike a chord.Hi KJ,
When you look at this verse and the advice given to the Maji you can see that not all the Jews were ignorant of the coming of the Christ.John 7:42
Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 29 2007,12:53) What will the King Messiah accomplish and fulfill? (1) Build the 3rd Temple (Eze 37:26-28, Mic 4:1).
(2) Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isa 43:5-6, Isa 27:12-13 & 11:12).
(3) Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. (Isa 2:4, Isa 11:6, Micah 4:3)
(4) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. (Isa 11:9, Isa 40:5, Jer 31:31-34, Zec 14:9, Zep 3:9).
(5) Be a descendant of King David and his son Solomon (Is 11:1, Jer 23:5, Eze 34:23-24, 2 Sam 7:12-14, 1 Chr 17:11)
(6) Will not lead people to disobey Torah (Deu 13:1-4).
Has anyone fulfilled even a single one of these? Not yet. Much less all six. This includes Jesus of Nazareth, Theudas (Acts 5:36), Judas the Galilean (Acts 5:37), Benjamin the Egyptian, Menachem, or Simeon Bar Kochba. What do all of these men have in common? They died by crucifixion and they claimed to be the King Messiah.
Mandy, was this the post you were alluding to?Well, I'm sorry, but Tow has made quite a case. In most instances Nick has tried his best to answer him and other's have taken a stab at it, but he has posted some convincing things. It appears that Jesus doesn't match a lot of what is predicted about the coming Messiah. My doubt center's around – WHY? Why doesn't he match? And have we just created a “second coming” to cover-up that he didn't do all he was supposed to the first time?
If this is the one, then I'll have a crack at it some time this week hopefully, although at first glance – yes – a few of the prophecies are manifestly 'yet to be fulfulled'.
OK, thanks I really appreciate this! Truly!! Maybe if you remember, could you PM me and let me know that you have responded (just in case I might miss it)? Thanks, bro!
This doesn't sound like Jesus to me – it sounds like God. It sounds like the coming and ruling of our Almighty! But then again, we have to take into consideration that you are a Triune God believer and I am not. Well, I'll keep looking and thanks!
Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 21 2008,19:01) OK, thanks I really appreciate this! Truly!! Maybe if you remember, could you PM me and let me know that you have responded (just in case I might miss it)? Thanks, bro!
Alright. Will do.Does anyone else detest the flood control feature of this website?!? Not allowing successive posts to me made with a 45 sec timeframe. So annoying….
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