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He shows Himself in creation, much less so in B&W words in a book. Those were written by man, creation was crafted by G-d.
Hi Tow,
So there are now no writings that are the Word of God for you?
There goes the rudder.
Rocks ahead.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 09 2008,05:22) Hi Tow,
So there are now no writings that are the Word of God for you?
There goes the rudder.
Rocks ahead.
Nick,Those who really seek the Father of Lights get an answer.
It's inside you.
We don't need paper and ink.
Christians and Jews for thousands of years went their whole life without a “book”. They sought God and I believe many of them found him.
The books for me are a history of human religious development containing truths and fables, victories and losses, good and evil.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 08 2008,12:22) Hi Tow,
So there are now no writings that are the Word of God for you?
There goes the rudder.
Rocks ahead.
Without the Christian bible, millions of Jews would likely have been spared. That's what the GT has given the world.Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 09 2008,06:19) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 09 2008,05:22) Hi Tow,
So there are now no writings that are the Word of God for you?
There goes the rudder.
Rocks ahead.
Nick,Those who really seek the Father of Lights get an answer.
It's inside you.
We don't need paper and ink.
Christians and Jews for thousands of years went their whole life without a “book”. They sought God and I believe many of them found him.
The books for me are a history of human religious development containing truths and fables, victories and losses, good and evil.
Hi SOL,
So God is within every man.
Just follow your inner inspirations
That is a familiar new age doctrine.Sorry
You must be born again.Tow writes:
Quote What will the King Messiah accomplish and fulfill? (1) Build the 3rd Temple (Eze 37:26-28, Mic 4:1).
(2) Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isa 43:5-6, Isa 27:12-13 & 11:12).
(3) Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. (Isa 2:4, Isa 11:6, Micah 4:3)
(4) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. (Isa 11:9, Isa 40:5, Jer 31:31-34, Zec 14:9, Zep 3:9).
(5) Be a descendant of King David and his son Solomon (Is 11:1, Jer 23:5, Eze 34:23-24, 2 Sam 7:12-14, 1 Chr 17:11)
(6) Will not lead people to disobey Torah (Deu 13:1-4).
Has anyone fulfilled even a single one of these? Not yet. Much less all six. This includes Jesus of Nazareth,
I'm assuming that the OT does not speak of a “second coming” of the Messiah to fulfill what he did not do the first time? I haven't read anything like that?David adds:
Quote Your entire post, of course, focuses on the triumphant prophecies of Christ's return, and you have somehow left out the prophecies that don't match YOUR expectations. Hmmmm.
So David also is betting on the fact that Jesus is the Messiah and that he will fulfill all the requirements when he returns.But my concern is that the OT does not speak of a half and half accomplished Messiah. It does not speak of a second return of the Messiah. Why does the NT teach this? Where did they get this teaching from?
Hi not3,
God did not reveal that the Messiah Son would come twice.As tow rightly points out his mission is as yet incomplete.
He came to preach entry into a kingdom and said that he would return.
He came as a servant as Isaiah revealed and he was the meek king riding on the donkey.Matthew 21
1And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,2Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
3And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.
4All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
5Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
6And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,
7And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.
8And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way.
9And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
10And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this?
11And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.
12And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
13And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
14And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.
15And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the son of David; they were sore displeased,
16And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
Hi not3,
After his death the resurrected Son of man went back to heaven and was given the kingdom by God
Dan 7
13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
He was the appointed king in prospect when he was here and when he returns it will be in glory.
Jesus spoke of his rule in Lk 19 and how men refused to acknowledge that rule.
12He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25(And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
26For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 14 2008,14:44) God did not reveal that the Messiah Son would come twice.
If this is the case, then shouldn't we have expected Jesus to fulfill all that the Messiah was predicted to fulfill – the first time (and only time according to the OT) on earth?Hi not3,
Only time in the OT?Where is it written?
He is now king and reigning over his little kingdom.
He will bring all creation under his appointed leadership.Hi not3,
Because you believe in Jesus who is the truth and the Word of God and he revealed for us the depths hidden in the OT.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 14 2008,19:47) Hi not3,
Because you believe in Jesus who is the truth and the Word of God and he revealed for us the depths hidden in the OT.
But is doesn't say he will 'come a second time', though? Not even the 'hidden depths' of the OT say so? What reason is there for people waiting, then?Stuart
Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 13 2008,21:25) Tow writes: Quote What will the King Messiah accomplish and fulfill? (1) Build the 3rd Temple (Eze 37:26-28, Mic 4:1).
(2) Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isa 43:5-6, Isa 27:12-13 & 11:12).
(3) Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. (Isa 2:4, Isa 11:6, Micah 4:3)
(4) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. (Isa 11:9, Isa 40:5, Jer 31:31-34, Zec 14:9, Zep 3:9).
(5) Be a descendant of King David and his son Solomon (Is 11:1, Jer 23:5, Eze 34:23-24, 2 Sam 7:12-14, 1 Chr 17:11)
(6) Will not lead people to disobey Torah (Deu 13:1-4).
Has anyone fulfilled even a single one of these? Not yet. Much less all six. This includes Jesus of Nazareth,
I'm assuming that the OT does not speak of a “second coming” of the Messiah to fulfill what he did not do the first time? I haven't read anything like that?David adds:
Quote Your entire post, of course, focuses on the triumphant prophecies of Christ's return, and you have somehow left out the prophecies that don't match YOUR expectations. Hmmmm.
So David also is betting on the fact that Jesus is the Messiah and that he will fulfill all the requirements when he returns.But my concern is that the OT does not speak of a half and half accomplished Messiah. It does not speak of a second return of the Messiah. Why does the NT teach this? Where did they get this teaching from?
Seriously, a prophecy is needed to fulfill prophecies? That's like paying one credit card with another one. You know where that road leads.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 13 2008,21:54) Hi not3,
After his death the resurrected Son of man went back to heaven and was given the kingdom by God
Dan 7
13I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.14And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
I note that like most Christians you stop when you think you have enough. Yet you did not go on to see how this was interpreted for Daniel's understanding:=================================
Dan 7:16 I approached one of those who stood there and asked him the truth concerning all this. So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of the things.
Dan 7:17 'These four great beasts are four kings who shall arise out of the earth.
Dan 7:18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, forever and ever.'Dan 7:22 until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints possessed the kingdom.
Dan 7:25 He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.
Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High; their kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey them.'
=================================While many Jews do feel the one spoken of in Dan 7:13-14 is the real King Messiah, you see that this is all a future event. When he comes THE FIRST TIME, all the above will begin to pass. There is no wiggle room to slip in a second coming in here.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 14 2008,02:47) Hi not3,
Because you believe in Jesus who is the truth and the Word of God and he revealed for us the depths hidden in the OT.
From http://www.answers.com/circular%20reasoning=======================================
“Beg the question” –Take for granted or assume the truth of the very thing being questioned. For example, Shopping now for a dress to wear to the ceremony is really begging the question–she hasn't been invited yet. This phrase, whose roots are in Aristotle's writings on logic, came into English in the late 1500s. In the 1990s, however, people sometimes used the phrase as a synonym of “ask the question” (as in The article begs the question: “What are we afraid of?”).
=======================================Quote (Stu @ Jan. 14 2008,04:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 14 2008,19:47) Hi not3,
Because you believe in Jesus who is the truth and the Word of God and he revealed for us the depths hidden in the OT.
But is doesn't say he will 'come a second time', though? Not even the 'hidden depths' of the OT say so? What reason is there for people waiting, then?Stuart
The same reason Paul and his gang waited in vain.
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