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Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.Compare:
1Co 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
1Co 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
1Co 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;Paul is speaking to those who are weak in faith because of food offered to idols and unclean food. Therefore the days he refers to I'm sure are feasts day that some refuse to give up.
Paul's writings are hard to understand this is just one example why, 2Peter 3:15-17. To say that Paul is speaking about the forth commandment is IMO, wishful thinking. There are numerous scriptures that say we are to keep the commandments. Here you have scripture that one can easily read what they want into the scripture.
IHN&L,
Ken
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 31 2007,07:18) Hi E1,
Not knowing the day nor the hour
means we can still know the season and the year and the month and the week.There is a Jewish feast that no one knows the day of because it is decided by which day the sun rises and the first rays of sunlight are seen. Some would suggest that it is likely to be on this feast that Jesus returns.
Nick,
Sometimes you really hurt! OUCH
Not one single Feast is ever by the sun. The Feasts of YHWH are according to the first sliver of the new moon, being the first day of the month. The Feast days go from there.The Jews have advantage much in every way over the Gentiles, but especially because unto them were given the oracles of Elohim.
Ken,
You can twist the meaning of Scripture like the Sun-day worshippers do for the weekly Sabbath.The Feasts contain special Sabbaths. These appointed times became christmas and easter etc.
Man-made sabbaths, and man-made holidays (holydays).
Y'shua Messiah is the fulfillment of these appointed times. Isn't that enough for those who follow Him to celebrate them also. Especially knowing these things. How hard do you think it was for the Israelites before He came to teach “these things”, the reason for doing it beforehand?
Mostly though because the Messiah Himself celebrated them. That is how I discovered them. And, how I am amazed by the things revealed to me on those days! Spiritual growth, discernment between good and evil, and for YHWH is why.
If you celebrate communion you are celebrating the Feast of Passover. So now that you know that, are you doing it according to His appointed time? or do you do it when ever the church leaders say you should? Paul said, “Let us keep the Feast.”
The Feasts were not nailed to the cross. That is a trinitarian doctrine. Y'shua taught us to do the Feasts, because He said “Follow Me.”
Quote (elaine1809 @ July 31 2007,04:26) HI LAUREL: I thought we were not under the law anymore. The only thing Jesus order us to do is celebrate his memorial the passing of the bread and the wine. I do not celebrate pagan holydays. What do you think about birthdays?
We are no longer under mans law. Y'shua Messiah explained that when He spoke to the Pharisees!He said, “till heaven and earth pass, not one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the Torah untill all is fulfilled.”
So I will ask you, Have heaven and earth passed?”
The bread and wine is Passover, He is the fulfillment of that suffering. Israel celebrated it with the physical lamb. We celebrate it with the Spiritual lamb.We celebrate Messiah's birthday durring Tabernacles. “The Word became flesh and tabernacled among us.”
A tabarnacle is a temporary dwelling. Y'shua Messiah dwelled with us on earth temporarily. The ark of the covenant was the seat of Elohim temporarily. Our fleshy bodies are the temporary dewlling of the Spirit of Elohim.The manger scene of the Christian Christ-mass is a tabarnacle.
Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 02 2007,17:43) Ken,
You can twist the meaning of Scripture like the Sun-day worshippers do for the weekly Sabbath.The Feasts contain special Sabbaths. These appointed times became christmas and easter etc.
Man-made sabbaths, and man-made holidays (holydays).
Y'shua Messiah is the fulfillment of these appointed times. Isn't that enough for those who follow Him to celebrate them also. Especially knowing these things. How hard do you think it was for the Israelites before He came to teach “these things”, the reason for doing it beforehand?
Mostly though because the Messiah Himself celebrated them. That is how I discovered them. And, how I am amazed by the things revealed to me on those days! Spiritual growth, discernment between good and evil, and for YHWH is why.
If you celebrate communion you are celebrating the Feast of Passover. So now that you know that, are you doing it according to His appointed time? or do you do it when ever the church leaders say you should? Paul said, “Let us keep the Feast.”
The Feasts were not nailed to the cross. That is a trinitarian doctrine. Y'shua taught us to do the Feasts, because He said “Follow Me.”
Laurel, which scripture am I twisting? I would like to know.The “HEART” of the feasts IS the sacrifice, IS it not? Jesus was the sacrifice of the Father that was sacrificed ONCE and for all. Take away the sacrifice and all you have is a ritual.
Do you burn offerings? You say no because Jesus is the sacrifice. So Jesus fulfilled that sacrifice and LAW of Moses.
The Jews followed Paul, teaching that the new converts had to keep Moses' Law.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
God's law not Moses' law.
1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.
The Jews kept Moses sacrificial law. Paul became as a Jew BUT WAS NOT UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES, THE SACRIFICIAL LAW WITH IT'S ORDNANCES, COL 2:14.
1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
Keeping the Law of God (the Ten Commandments) BUT under the “LAW OF CHRIST”. What is the Law of Christ? Luke 24:44
Besides showing the world that we believe Jehovah to be creator and God the forth commandment seventh day Sabbath gives us MORE time to spend with the Father. That's it! We keep the Sabbath SPIRITUALLY being led by the Spirit and IN THE SPIRIT.
Laurel can you pick corn on the Sabbath day? I CAN! The apostles DID! Why didn't the apostles pick twice as much corn on the preparation day Friday? Because the LORD of the Sabbath was right there with them. And the LORD of the Sabbath is always with me ever since Pentecost was fulfilled.
You would make the forth commandment a burden where Jesus showed it to be a delight.The law is SPIRITUAL and is NOT written on stone any longer.
The law in the Old Testament was physical! The Holy Spirit was NOT given to them. The Law in the New Testament is SPIRITUAL and not physical.Mat 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.How does cleaning bread crumbs out of my home cleans me of sin? Leaven is a SYMBOL of sin so in the Old Testament they would remove the leaven from their homes. Guess What?
I have NO SIN! I accept Christ sacrifice SPIRITUALLY and am forgiven of my sin. I keep Father's day in Spirit, spending MORE TIME with HIM on HIS day. Unlike the other six.
1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
The ritual law pointed to the Messiah with all it's rituals and sacrifice. The Messiah came, He fulfilled the law that pointed to Him PROVING to be the Messiah that Moses' law pointed too.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.You enjoy keeping the feasts days and all their rituals and “ANNUAL” SabbathS. Have had it but it does NOT make you More or LESS that anyone who has accepted Christ weather Jew OR Gentile. This I believe is what Rom. 14 is ALL about.
IHN&L,
Ken
That is that you posted that, but it seems that we are getting off topic. This topic should be closed.
Quote (acertainchap @ Aug. 03 2007,02:50) That is that you posted that, but it seems that we are getting off topic. This topic should be closed.
I agree Chap
.Laurel you want to teach feasts then you should start another thread on feasts IF there isn't one already
.Actually, the Feasts could be mentioned on every one of the threads on this site. This one is the “rapture”.
If you understood that the focus of the Feasts wasn't about sacrificing the blood of animals and that each Feast taught us more about our Father in heaven and each one is many faceted, you could also learn that the “rapture” is false, by knowing the Feasts and what they mean. The Feasts are the oracles of Elohim. And His way of alowing us to “live” in His Word.Ken,
When you say the Feasts are no more you are twisting Scripture. All Elohim's children are expected to learn the Feasts, participate in them. Keeping the Feasts is as important as keeping the 7th day Sabbath. He know we worship Him if we do. If we do not, we are not worshiping Him. They are YHWH's Feasts. The Jews weren't even around yet when the Feasts were commanded.Luk 24:44 And1161 he said2036 unto them,846 These3778 are the3588 words3056 which3739 I spake2980 unto4314 you,5209 while I was5607 yet2089 with4862 you,5213 that3754 all things3956 must1163 be fulfilled,4137 which were written1125 in1722 the3588 law3551 of Moses,3475 and2532 in the prophets,4396 and2532 in the psalms,5568 concerning4012 me.1700
Mar 14:49 I was2252 daily2596, 2250 with4314 you5209 in1722 the3588 temple2411 teaching,1321 and2532 ye took2902 me3165 not:3756 but235 (2443) the3588 Scriptures1124 must be fulfilled.4137
Luk 21:22 For3754 these3778 be1526 the days2250 of vengeance,1557 that all things3956 which are written1125 may be fulfilled.4137
Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 03 2007,16:09) Actually, the Feasts could be mentioned on every one of the threads on this site. This one is the “rapture”.
If you understood that the focus of the Feasts wasn't about sacrificing the blood of animals and that each Feast taught us more about our Father in heaven and each one is many faceted, you could also learn that the “rapture” is false, by knowing the Feasts and what they mean. The Feasts are the oracles of Elohim. And His way of alowing us to “live” in His Word.
All the more you should start a thread on the feasts so I can try and understand your reasoning to spite the scriptures.Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 03 2007,17:53) Quote (Laurel @ Aug. 03 2007,16:09) Actually, the Feasts could be mentioned on every one of the threads on this site. This one is the “rapture”.
If you understood that the focus of the Feasts wasn't about sacrificing the blood of animals and that each Feast taught us more about our Father in heaven and each one is many faceted, you could also learn that the “rapture” is false, by knowing the Feasts and what they mean. The Feasts are the oracles of Elohim. And His way of alowing us to “live” in His Word.
All the more you should start a thread on the feasts so I can try and understand your reasoning to spite the scriptures.
Would you please tell me what you mean by “spite”?I am an earthling. I know Paul's teaching. I know Paul taught from the Torah and the Prophets. I know this because I can read, and see. I can listen and hear. I know my Messiah and my Elohim and that the Torah is for our instruction, for our reproof and to keep us alive. I know that the Torah is a light in the darkness and I believe Scripture where it says to me that the only way to the kingdom is to believe Y'shua is the Messiah and the Son of Elohim and to obey as Y'shua did. I follow Him. He is my Master. Seven times in revelations these two things are written together and Y'shua said if we do not obey, we are not His. He said if we love Him to keep His commands, which are YHWH's commands.
Laurel;
If you believe that God wants you to keep the law how can you claim to be justified by faith in Christ. You seem pretty adament on this issue. Do you attend a synagogue and sacrifice bulls and goats and lambs, too. How much of the law do you believe that God wants you to keep. Why did Paul say that all of the proceduralism of the commandments contained in ordinances were nailed to the cross blotting out these which were against us? Colossians 2:14. Let no man judge you in meat or drink or holydays, or sabbath days. Colossians 2:16 I appreciate your zeal for the truth, but this was a major issue in the early church that was sorted out some 2000 years ago. How can you present Christ and believe the proceduralism under the law is required?
Take care,
Steven
Mr. Steve,
Colossians was written to the faithful and true witnesses who followed Messiah who kept the Torah, and the Feasts, as taught by the deciples of Messiah and the Messiah Himself.The foresight I get when I read Col. is that there will be preachers coming and teaching “another gospel”, and we who follow Messiah should not let them dictate to the true followers on how we should eat, or celebrate or worship the one true Elohim. As history shows this to be true by the murders of the many true followers of the faith namely by the Crusades, and Rome.
Faith without works is dead. Read James 2:18, James 2:20, James 2:26
We must “guard” the Torah. By the Torah we are able to decern sin. If we do not know the definition of sin, then what do we repent of? If we can not repent because we do not know, then we do not need Messiah.
Man-made laws, man-made traditions, things of our “image” the image of the beast, our evil imaginations, were done away with by the teaching of Messiah. Messiah showed that the One true God was the God of Abraham, Issiac, and Jacob. Y'shua IS the fulfillment of the Word, making it impossible for anyone to deny the Father, unless they are blind to the truth of the Word, and to the teaching and suffering of Messiah.
The Spirit of Elohim dwells within me. I do not attend a synogog and never have. Actually I am currently bringing the good news to Seventh Day Adventists. I feel they need to know the truths that have been revealed to me.
BTW, in your search for the truth, please continue reading where you so conveniently stopped short in Colossians. After we were taught what was nailed to the cross, we are retaught the same principles from another angle, as in Colossians:
Col 2:20 Wherefore3767 if1487 ye be dead599 with4862 Christ5547 from575 the3588 rudiments4747 of the3588 world,2889 why,5101 as though5613 living2198 in1722 the world,2889 are ye subject to ordinances,1379
Col 2:21 (Touch680 not;3361 taste1089 not;3366 handle2345 not;3366
Col 2:22 Which3739 all3956 are2076 to perish1519, 5356 with the3588 using;)671 after2596 the3588 commandments1778 and2532 doctrines1319 of men?444Col 2:18 says do not be decieved by men's philosophy.
The biggest problem we have to overcome in these texts is to understand that men's laws and specifically the laws made up by the falsley appointed preists (the Pharisees), are the laws Y'shua overcame. He made them look like idiots, and so they were against Him.
Do you feel you can break the laws of Elohim and still go to heaven?
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