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Do you believe that there will be a Rapture? If so, then give some Biblical evidence to support your claim and also tell us when it will occur. Examples: Before Tribulation. During Tribulation. After Tribulation. If you don't believe that it will occur, then state your reason by supporting it will Biblical evidence.
Hi ACC.
There is no mention of the word rapture in scripture, nor of pre trib mid trib or post trib.There is however a ressurection and translation of the righteous when Jesus comes.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?What do you think ACC.
Blessings.Firstly, the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
Secondly, the dead in Christ shall rise
Thirdly, those of us who are yet to die will be caught up together with them (the dead in Christ who have just risen) in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
This is the verse that indicates a “catching away, or the non-doctrinal “rapture” as its called.
All the scriptures mentioned by CB and Chap refer to the resurrection which is after the tribulation and is with a trumpet. But just as Christ came in stages the first time the Day of the Lord will come in stages when Christ returns. Christ instructed his disciples to pray to be worthy to escape the great tribulation but did not promise them anything, but he did indicate that because some had kept the word of his patience that they would be kept from the hour of temptation which comes upon the face of the whole earth. Luke 21:36 and Rev. 3:10. The rapture (Matthew 25, the ten virgins) will occur unexpectedly before the tribulation commences. That's the reason its unexpected. Christ taught more on his unexpected coming in parables than any other subject. Get this straight, the Lord cometh as a thief in the night, they do not sound trumpets.
Christ will come as a thief in the night to those who are not saved.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.Some of the righteous shall live through the tribulation and then meet the Lord in the air being translated without seeing death.
Psa 91:1 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
Psa 91:2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
Psa 91:3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.
Psa 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
Psa 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
Psa 91:6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Psa 91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Psa 91:9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
Psa 91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
Psa 91:11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
Psa 91:12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Psa 91:13 Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.
Psa 91:14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.
Psa 91:15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
Psa 91:16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.Hello Chap
You know I don't believe in a rapture, and my reasons are stated in my topic;
“The Rapture; will there be a rapture?” under “General Questions”
Please refer back to it, and then post you question, if any, right hear; and
I will be happy to reply.
Bless youHello Chap, you complaint once that I don't reply to you because of our difference of understandings, is this pay back?
Still your friend!Is what payback? No nothing I've done here has a negative intention. I'm doing payback for anything. Payback for what? I'm still your friend but would like to know what the 'this' is that you refer to as payback.
Peace.
Chap, you thought I was not reading your posts because of our difference in understanding, your wrong, I read through many post, I just choose not to reply to all of them.
I have several topics posted, and when a question is raised for which the answer is in one of my topics, I rather refer to reading my topic then retyping the answer.
On several occasions I suggested to you to do that, since I found no reply any where I took that as sign, saying, you don't really care, or “pay back” for my apparent silence.
Still your friend ChapI'm not doing payback for anything. I just haven't been on this site very much lately and my mind is predominitly on college, which I'll be starting very soon.
I do care about your posts and respect you and your points of view. It's very hard to balance so many things in life at once.Peace friend.
Quote (acertainchap @ Aug. 21 2007,00:36) Is what payback? No nothing I've done here has a negative intention. I'm doing payback for anything. Payback for what? I'm still your friend but would like to know what the 'this' is that you refer to as payback. Peace.
I made a typo. Sorry. In the sentence: “I'm doing payback for anything”, there should be the word “not” in between the “I'm” and “doing”. Ok? Peace.Quote (acertainchap @ Aug. 21 2007,07:07) I'm not doing payback for anything. I just haven't been on this site very much lately and my mind is predominitly on college, which I'll be starting very soon. I do care about your posts and respect you and your points of view. It's very hard to balance so many things in life at once.Peace friend.
Hey Chap,
What kind of college will you be going to?To all;
The rapture and the resurrection are two distinct events. Jesus distinguishes the two.
He gives seven illustrations which depict the manner in which the Day of the Lord comes in Mathew 24:36 through 25:30. The emphasis is on unexpectedness and suddeness and what will occur to those following him.
Then he tells how the coming in glory is different which occurs after the tribulation in Mathew 25:31-46. Here, he comes in glory with the angels and all the nations are gathered before him. This is an entirely different depiction than when he comes as before the tribulation only to the believers.
Paul wrote to the Thessalonians and told of the coming in glory in chapter 4. He stated that “remain”, and we, which are alive, would not preclude those who sleep (they will be resurrected) and we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Paul wrote a second epistle and told the disciples that the coming of the Lord in glory would not occur until the anti-Christ is revealed first. So I Thes 4 cannot refer to the rapture but to the coming in glory immediately after the tribulation as Jesus taught.
However, this does not mean that the earth will be destroyed at this point. Revelation says we will rule and reign with Christ for 1000 years on the earth. This is probably why Peter says not to be ignorant; a day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day. Hence, when we meet the Lord in the air, it's not because we are necessarily leaving the earth but more probable that he is coming here to rule with us.
This is the basic chain of events which all the parables refer to- (1) the sudden coming of the day of the lord in about 20 different illustrations of Christ. Incidentally, Jesus taught more about his unexpected coming than he did any other subject by far. It is the paramount truth of the gospel- to be watching and ready and doing your lord's will until he comes.
(2) He tells of great tribulation, which includes the weeping and gnashing of teeth, which refers to ultimate distress emotionally. Amos said the day of the lord is so filled with panic it's like escaping the lion only to be confronted by a bear. Amos 5:19 Jesus taught us to pray to be accounted worthy to escape this tribulation and to enter the strait gate. He warned us about this time more than any other teaching in the gospel. We have no excuse. John the Baptist asked the Pharisees when they came to see him, “Who hath warned you to flee the wrath to come.”
God does not desire that any perish, but due to their own choices they will.Paul said how shall we escape if we neglect so great of salvation. I've spoken to many ministers through the years about this and most will say “you're right brother, we need to be ready always.” However, if the truth is not preached how will the people know what is to come. Failing to warn in the face of foreseeable danger. That is negligence. Paul asks the question, “How will we escape if we neglect…” Proverbs 19:5 say he that speaks lies will not escape. There is no commandment or tradition of men that is worth going through the tribulation.
(3) Jesus comes in glory and the saints rule with him. The sheep inherit eternal life; the goats perish in a furnace of fire. He separates the tares from the wheat, separates the good fish from the bad, etc.
Steven
Hi Steve,
2Thess 2
3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
The great apostasy has occurred with the trinity doctrine dividing away many of those who belong to Christ from 200 ad. Now we do have a false Jesus [2Cor 11.4] exalted and worshiped as God in the new temples of the Spirit.
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