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Would it be safe to say, that if you could have a complete view of someones life day after day, and the sound was turned off, that you would see good people doing good things (greeting others, helping others, praying, loveing disposition etc), and bad prople doing bad things (arrogance, shortness, evil, hateful disposition, corruption). would it be safe to think that thier actions defined them but could not save them? Is ones character defined by what they do, especially when no one is looking?
Mark, good point. If we were judged based on just what was seen, there are many 'good actors' and there are people who do things for the wrong reason. So because God looks on the intentions of the heart, im glad. And im sure there are many people who WOULD do something if they could but cant. And God knows this.
'For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart.' (Hebrews 4:12
And I agree with what kerwin said earlier and the bible,
Quote What a person needs is soul that hungers and thirsts for righteousness and to reach the stage in life where they have a broken spirit and contrite heart, aka being poor in spirit.
'The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit. A broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.' (Psalms 51:17)And also what you said Mark,
Quote I cannot look at someone else and see them cheating on their wife or sinning etc. and think “that person is going to hell”, Because I do not know what made them or what formed them. Maybe they were severely abused as a child or something.
And I do believe God is fair and just and looks at all these things. It makes me think of The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector. Luke 18: 9-14'To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 05 2011,05:30) Mark, good point. If we were judged based on just what was seen, there are many 'good actors' and there are people who do things for the wrong reason. So because God looks on the intentions of the heart, im glad. And im sure there are many people who WOULD do something if they could but cant. And God knows this. 'For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart.' (Hebrews 4:12
And I agree with what kerwin said earlier and the bible,
Quote What a person needs is soul that hungers and thirsts for righteousness and to reach the stage in life where they have a broken spirit and contrite heart, aka being poor in spirit.
'The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit. A broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.' (Psalms 51:17)And also what you said Mark,
Quote I cannot look at someone else and see them cheating on their wife or sinning etc. and think “that person is going to hell”, Because I do not know what made them or what formed them. Maybe they were severely abused as a child or something.
And I do believe God is fair and just and looks at all these things. It makes me think of The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector. Luke 18: 9-14'To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Amen Karmarie. We are on the same page. Peace-Hope you are well. I am much better, the flowers are coming out here and it's spring finally!-MarkHi Mark. Glad to hear the flowers are coming out and that its Spring. Its turning Autumn here, and raining today.
God bless you and your family Mark.
It may be that we are putting the cart before the horse. This may seem small and maybe unnecessary but it is extremely important.
We must answer this question. If a man decides in his heart to do nothing but good deeds and show kindness to the world around him and help those in need and spend his time doing good things for other people 24/7! Does that cause him to be cleansed of sin, worthy, whole, forgiven of sin, ordained of God and the righteousness of God? No! Nobody is justified by works or efforts.
In order to receive forgiveness and perfection through Jesus we must, accept and believe his words that make us clean, forgiven, whole, ordained, and righteous unto God. Then from a truly clean heart/mind (cleansed inside first) the work of God on the inside is revealed by good works of love and kindness on the outside.
One kindness is by works and efforts of the person to be cleansed. One is works and effort to show the love created inside by being cleansed and made righteous by God.
You can't clean the inside by works and effort without boasting of your own self made Godliness. God cleans the inside first which creates his great love from within that produces God fruit on the outside. Good works are not necessary to come to God yet coming to God will produce the fruit of loving good works. IMO, TK
Thanks Karmarie,blessings and love to you and yours too.
I was saying, that good things and works do not save a person, Jesus' sacrifice does. Period. Now, to benifit from that you have to have faith in him. To have faith in him is to love him and follow him.
Now, I know personally people who go to church and profess this, but thier actions and deeds are anything but christ like and loving. I'm just sayin, I can't judge them, but God can, and I believe that he, with eyes that see everything, can see what no man sees. And one day, those who have lied to thier fellow christians and themselves will have thier whole lives shown in front of the whole world, and God will make the call. One who does lip service only does not have true faith. I say again, talk is cheap with God. The “lord lord” people who jump up and down and scream in church and have good outside appearances, but screw over anyone they come in contact with that doesn't go to thier church (and some of them too) need to clean the inside of the cup as well as the outside, and only each person individually can do that. To thine own self be true. Peace-Mark
Tim Kraft,
Adam sinned and the effect of that sin is that the spirit of man became corrupt and therefore leads each man to fall short of the glory of God. So if a man with the spirit of mankind “decides in his heart to do nothing but good deeds and show kindness to the world around him and help those in need and spend his time doing good things for other people 24/7” he will fail and thus show by his actions he is not cleansed of his sins.
To be cleansed of his sins the man need a new spirit created like God in true righteousness and holiness. To get this new a man must obey all of Jesus’ teachings and so remain in him. A man that is in Jesus no longer continues to sin because they are free from the impure spirit of man. The man who is not in Jesus continues to sin because they live by the impure spirit of man.
An individual that is fully mature in Christ does not sin even though tempted just like him. A man that is not fully mature is being shaped and refined by God to become fully mature. That man is credited with righteousness because he believes God will do as he promises and God’s does as his work is made manifest in the actions of that man.
Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 07 2011,22:52) Thanks Karmarie,blessings and love to you and yours too. I was saying, that good things and works do not save a person, Jesus' sacrifice does. Period. Now, to benifit from that you have to have faith in him. To have faith in him is to love him and follow him.
Now, I know personally people who go to church and profess this, but thier actions and deeds are anything but christ like and loving. I'm just sayin, I can't judge them, but God can, and I believe that he, with eyes that see everything, can see what no man sees. And one day, those who have lied to thier fellow christians and themselves will have thier whole lives shown in front of the whole world, and God will make the call. One who does lip service only does not have true faith. I say again, talk is cheap with God. The “lord lord” people who jump up and down and scream in church and have good outside appearances, but screw over anyone they come in contact with that doesn't go to thier church (and some of them too) need to clean the inside of the cup as well as the outside, and only each person individually can do that. To thine own self be true. Peace-Mark
I need to correct myself. The last part I wrote “only each person can do that”. That isn't entirely true. One who wants to change can ask God to do it, in thierselves alot of the time they cannot, but they can trust God and pray for him to help, and he will. This is true with me. Thier are things I would like to change, and I don't think I can do it without God. Peace-MarkQuote (mikeangel @ Mar. 08 2011,03:53) Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 07 2011,22:52) Thanks Karmarie,blessings and love to you and yours too. I was saying, that good things and works do not save a person, Jesus' sacrifice does. Period. Now, to benifit from that you have to have faith in him. To have faith in him is to love him and follow him.
Now, I know personally people who go to church and profess this, but thier actions and deeds are anything but christ like and loving. I'm just sayin, I can't judge them, but God can, and I believe that he, with eyes that see everything, can see what no man sees. And one day, those who have lied to thier fellow christians and themselves will have thier whole lives shown in front of the whole world, and God will make the call. One who does lip service only does not have true faith. I say again, talk is cheap with God. The “lord lord” people who jump up and down and scream in church and have good outside appearances, but screw over anyone they come in contact with that doesn't go to thier church (and some of them too) need to clean the inside of the cup as well as the outside, and only each person individually can do that. To thine own self be true. Peace-Mark
I need to correct myself. The last part I wrote “only each person can do that”. That isn't entirely true. One who wants to change can ask God to do it, in thierselves alot of the time they cannot, but they can trust God and pray for him to help, and he will. This is true with me. Thier are things I would like to change, and I don't think I can do it without God. Peace-Mark
Your action is a noble one.Sorry Mark, I meant thats true what you were saying. I was rushing then. And I might not reply to anything for a while cause my computer needs repairs, so dont anyone think im ignoring or anything ok. Take care.
Ya'll too. I'm finally blessed with a good bit of work. I will be making up for lost ground last winter.It was a bad one. I was out of work for a solid month. Thats never happened before. Recession over? Hardly. I got a bone removed from my foot during that. I put it off for a year(my wife made me finally do it). Wife graduates collage this summer so things are looking up. I was about to cash in my life insurance. God is good. I will not have as much time, but I will still think about ya'll and pray for all of your well being. Peace-Mark
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 08 2011,07:31) Tim Kraft, Adam sinned and the effect of that sin is that the spirit of man became corrupt and therefore leads each man to fall short of the glory of God. So if a man with the spirit of mankind “decides in his heart to do nothing but good deeds and show kindness to the world around him and help those in need and spend his time doing good things for other people 24/7” he will fail and thus show by his actions he is not cleansed of his sins.
To be cleansed of his sins the man need a new spirit created like God in true righteousness and holiness. To get this new a man must obey all of Jesus’ teachings and so remain in him. A man that is in Jesus no longer continues to sin because they are free from the impure spirit of man. The man who is not in Jesus continues to sin because they live by the impure spirit of man.
An individual that is fully mature in Christ does not sin even though tempted just like him. A man that is not fully mature is being shaped and refined by God to become fully mature. That man is credited with righteousness because he believes God will do as he promises and God’s does as his work is made manifest in the actions of that man.
Kerwin; You are a student of the word of God and have much truth. You are one to say, show me the scripture and then I might believe.IMO, you have heard it said that Adam sinned in the Garden but that is not what the Bible says! The words sin and devil are not in the Garden story. Without preconceived beliefs that they were there you would not find sin or satan or devil in the Garden of Eden!
Adam & Eve didn't “do” or “not do” a physical action. They were given a choice of what to believe or not believe from many information sources. With that choice of “belief” between good only or good and evil they were told the truth of what would happen if they did choose good and evil. It was a free will choice to accept the evil consequences.
It wasn't a punishment it was a fact. Believing in his powerful mind that evil existed brought evil into existence to him. That is why he immediately felt fear. All destruction starts from fear. No one fears love.
Man was made alive by the breath/spirit of God within. The spirit of God did not change into evil. Evil thinking was an illusion of truth, apart from God, believed by man. Whatever a man believeth in his heart, so he is. Wrong thinking was passed down through the ages. The wrong thinking/sin/error was that there was evil when there is only God/good!!
Spirit is words. Words are spirit. Love words are God spirit. Destructive words are man created illusion apart from the truth. You are worthy. {God's words}. You are a sinner. {Not God's words}. You are righteous. {God's words}. You are an old sinner beggin for grace.{ Man's words of illusion}.
Thinking or thought always comes before action. Actions are a by-product of thought contemplation. If one thinks on destructive ideas he will bring that to pass. If one dwells on love and compassion that is what he will manifest. Cleansing the inside (mind) must happen to clean the outside. IMO, TKGod said “don't do this” or you will die. Eve did it. She led Adam to do it. They sinned. You deny it. You sin. Simple.
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Mar. 09 2011,20:52) sin(wrong thinking)
Hi Tim,It's not 'your thoughts' that are a sin against another person, but a deed!
It seems You keep missing that sin is the act of doing; NOT THINKING!Gen.4:7 If thou DOEST well, shalt thou not be accepted?
and If thou DOEST not well, sin lieth at the door.
Sin is the transgression of the law. (1 John 3:4)Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeangel @ Mar. 08 2011,21:53) Ya'll too. I'm finally blessed with a good bit of work. I will be making up for lost ground last winter.It was a bad one. I was out of work for a solid month. Thats never happened before. Recession over? Hardly. I got a bone removed from my foot during that. I put it off for a year(my wife made me finally do it). Wife graduates collage this summer so things are looking up. I was about to cash in my life insurance. God is good. I will not have as much time, but I will still think about ya'll and pray for all of your well being. Peace-Mark
Thanks Marc…. What kind of work do you do???Quote (theodorej @ Mar. 09 2011,23:52) Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 08 2011,21:53) Ya'll too. I'm finally blessed with a good bit of work. I will be making up for lost ground last winter.It was a bad one. I was out of work for a solid month. Thats never happened before. Recession over? Hardly. I got a bone removed from my foot during that. I put it off for a year(my wife made me finally do it). Wife graduates collage this summer so things are looking up. I was about to cash in my life insurance. God is good. I will not have as much time, but I will still think about ya'll and pray for all of your well being. Peace-Mark
Thanks Marc…. What kind of work do you do???
Your most welcome. I have a painting and remodeling company. I have been doing it since I was 14. I went on my own in '90 , and I am very blessed to do what I love. I got bored with it once, but then i discovered decorative painting. It really is cool, making a piece of wallboard look like marble etc. The only thing I hate is the customer from “hades” once in a blue moon who cannot be pleased. A coincidental aspect of it is that I have worked in hundreds of households, and have seen firsthand how other familys function. i have a “fly on the wall” perspective, and have a good idea on what happieness consist of. Not to talk your ear off, but one thing that used to hurt me, was when I was married to Julie, before she committed suicide, I would on occasion work for a family. A few times in the middle of it the wife would catch the guy cheating, and the family would of course implode. I thought “man, I would give my left arm to have what you have, and your throwing your whole family away for a whore”. Also, alot of times I would run into a guy that had done that, and 99 out of 100 times they wish they could go back and not do it. If your girlfriend is married, and cheats with you, when you two hook up, what's to keep her from doing the same thing to you? I have been blessed with a good woman. Watch out guys, ther's lots of snakes out there! Peace-MarkP.s. What do you do?
Tim Kraft,
Sin is a violation of the law of love. Any sinful thought is a hateful thought and a completely mature Christian will find it so repugnant they will not entertain it. Since they will not touch it the sinful thought will not give birth hateful fantasies or actions.
A individual can be unaware that their fantasies and actions are hateful and yet they are still guilty of sin. That is why those who were outside the law died even though they did not know the law.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 10 2011,07:59) Tim Kraft, Sin is a violation of the law of love. Any sinful thought is a hateful thought and a completely mature Christian will find it so repugnant they will not entertain it. Since they will not touch it the sinful thought will not give birth hateful fantasies or actions.
A individual can be unaware that their fantasies and actions are hateful and yet they are still guilty of sin. That is why those who were outside the law died even though they did not know the law.
Kerwin: If you perfer I will not debate this further with you. You completely avoided what I stated in my post, and used words and descriptions that have no scriptural backing!“Sin is a violation of the law of love.” That is a Kerwin special. Not in the Bible. When talking about the Garden of Eden story at least respect it enough to not use the term “sin” that is not there.
God referred to the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Not something to do or not do. God told Adam not to “partake of'' or “eat” or consume or accept/believe the INFORMATION of good and evil OR he would die.
Believing in evil/death would create the same. Don't believe in death/destructive/evil information or you will create death for yourself. .
You say sin is a violation fo the law of love. There is no law of love. Love cannot, by it's very nature, be a law. A law is a command or rule that if broken has a penalty.
Love is reaping and sowing. Whatsoever thing you sow, that also shall ye reap! You can't command a child to love you. Love is free, unrestricted, given freely, never demanded or comanded.
Sin is in the contemplations of the mind/heart first. Sin is a thought transgression held against another for the purpose of destruction. This is a work in progress for me. Thanks for your time. All IMO, TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Mar. 10 2011,15:47) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 10 2011,07:59) Tim Kraft, Sin is a violation of the law of love. Any sinful thought is a hateful thought and a completely mature Christian will find it so repugnant they will not entertain it. Since they will not touch it the sinful thought will not give birth hateful fantasies or actions.
A individual can be unaware that their fantasies and actions are hateful and yet they are still guilty of sin. That is why those who were outside the law died even though they did not know the law.
Kerwin: If you perfer I will not debate this further with you. You completely avoided what I stated in my post, and used words and descriptions that have no scriptural backing!“Sin is a violation of the law of love.” That is a Kerwin special. Not in the Bible. When talking about the Garden of Eden story at least respect it enough to not use the term “sin” that is not there.
God referred to the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Not something to do or not do. God told Adam not to “partake of'' or “eat” or consume or accept/believe the INFORMATION of good and evil OR he would die.
Believing in evil/death would create the same. Don't believe in death/destructive/evil information or you will create death for yourself. .
You say sin is a violation fo the law of love. There is no law of love. Love cannot, by it's very nature, be a law. A law is a command or rule that if broken has a penalty.
Love is reaping and sowing. Whatsoever thing you sow, that also shall ye reap! You can't command a child to love you. Love is free, unrestricted, given freely, never demanded or comanded.
Sin is in the contemplations of the mind/heart first. Sin is a thought transgression held against another for the purpose of destruction. This is a work in progress for me. Thanks for your time. All IMO, TK
TK
you are teaching perfection ,but you are not perfect because you and I are still here,it is the war against the spirit of the world that we fight ,it seems that you have no war in you ,so you have come to perfection ,right, how did you do it brother ??
tell us
Pierre
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