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Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 02 2011,03:26) Pierre, You wrote:
Quote this you say to Mikeangel;;We strive in vain to obtain righteousness if God does not do it but we have confidence that God will do it and so do the righteous works he puts in front of us knowing that we can only do them by the grace of God. In that way we bear the fruit of God not from our own effort but rather from the effort of God.
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now can you justifiy what you say in the scriptures from John ???if you do show me
I can justify it because I know that the results of God and Jesus being in a man are that God does his works through him, as John tells us himself in John 14:10 and 1 John 3:6:
John 14:10
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
1 John 3:6
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Above scriptures are from NIV.
Kerwinno God is not IN US unless we do Gods works ,just like if you are in the army and you fight with your side then you are in the army if you fight in opposition you are not in it,
so you are In the amy of God and God is with you or you are not and God is not with you.
Christ was send by God he worked for God so it could be said by him that he is one with God and that God is in him meaning in is works and deeds.
Nu 14:7 and said to the entire Israelite assembly, “The land we passed through and explored is exceedingly good.
Nu 14:8 If the LORD is pleased with us, he will lead us into that land, a land flowing with milk and honey, and will give it to us.
Nu 14:9 Only do not rebel against the LORD. And do not be afraid of the people of the land, because we will swallow them up. Their protection is gone, but the LORD is with us. Do not be afraid of them.”
Nu 14:10 But the whole assembly talked about stoning them. Then the glory of the LORD appeared at the Tent of Meeting to all the Israelites.
Nu 14:11 The LORD said to Moses, “How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the miraculous signs I have performed among them?Nu 14:16 ‘The LORD was not able to bring these people into the land he promised them on oath; so he slaughtered them in the desert.’
Nu 14:17 “Now may the Lord’s strength be displayed, just as you have declared:
Nu 14:18 ‘The LORD is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation.’
Nu 14:19 In accordance with your great love, forgive the sin of these people, just as you have pardoned them from the time they left Egypt until now.”
Nu 14:20 The LORD replied, “I have forgiven them, as you asked.
Nu 14:21 Nevertheless, as surely as I live and as surely as the glory of the LORD fills the whole earth,
Nu 14:22 not one of the men who saw my glory and the miraculous signs I performed in Egypt and in the desert but who disobeyed me and tested me ten times—
Nu 14:23 not one of them will ever see the land I promised on oath to their forefathers. No one who has treated me with contempt will ever see it.Nu 14:28 So tell them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the LORD, I will do to you the very things I heard you say
what as happen in the past is a shadow of the future,
I will follow God and his son not men.Pierre
Kerwin and Terra I agree with both of you.
I believe first you have to have something good about you for God to call you. When you are called you are taught, its different than when a person may go to a church, and man convinces them to 'give their heart to Jesus'. Though this may be a good start, its different than what im talking about.
First you need to be acting ok. To know right from wrong. To be thinking the right way. Then if God calls you then you learn. And through God you learn even more about what sin is and you no longer like those sins or like what you see happening around you.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 01 2011,20:30) karmarie, I agree but the prize is worth the effort and the perserverence. Know that through Jesus all things are possible for those who seek God's righteosness and his kingdom. He will do all he states if we believe without doubt and seek to serve him in all our being.
Hi Kerwin,Excellent Post!
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Mar. 01 2011,21:11) Kerwin I will follow God and his son not men.
Pierre
Hi Pierre,
God Spirit(117) = Power(77) + us(40)Then why do you reject YHVH's “POWER”(77) to make you “PERFECT”!
2Tm.3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Heb:11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that THEY without “us”(40) should not be made perfect.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgKarmarie,
What a person needs is soul that hungers and thirsts for righteousness and to reach the stage in life where they have a broken spirit and contrite heart, aka being poor in spirit. Anyone this describes is one of the blessed, just as Jesus teaches us in the b-attitudes, Matthew 5:3 and 6. It is also part of the idea expressed in John 3:19-21 which also speaks of those that do not believe all the promises.
John 3:19-21
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God
You are at that point a slave to sin, Romans 6:17-18, and so a prisoner of the desires of this world and thus any works you have are as dirty rags in the eyes of God. Realizing this is what has brought you to the stage of life where you have a broken spirit and a contrite heart to go with you desire to be righteous as God is righteous.
Romans 6
17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness
Please read the what I am planning on posting to Pierre right after I add this post to the thread.
Pierre,
I am unsure if you are making the connections I am pointing to in scriptures so I am going to do a walk through.
First let’s read Jeremiah 31:31-34…
31 “The days are coming,” declares the LORD,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the LORD.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the LORD.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the LORD.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”…which contrasts the Old Covenant to the New. One thing we learn is that in the Old one person taught another how to know the Lord while in the New God will write his law of love on their hearts and put it in their minds so they will know him. It is not something they do but what God does as he is the one who writes it on their hearts and puts it in their mind. This is what I am saying as he does it by living in and through them by the Holy Spirit.
That is why we are taught:
Romans 9
30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:
“See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.”When you pursue something by faith instead of by your own works God works through that faith and accomplishes what he promised. Did Abraham father Isaac because of his own efforts or did God do as he promised and worked so that Sarah conceived and bore Isaac? Did Daniel shut the mouths of the lions by his efforts or did God do it by his efforts. In conclusion faith bears fruit which are the works of God while the efforts of a human fall short of the goal.
Abraham was credited with righteousness because he believed what God promised. One promise of the new covenant is:
Matthew 5:6
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.To be filled with righteousness means to filled with a righteousness that is created to be like God’s which we are to put on just as scripture instructs us:
Ephesians 4
20 That, however, is not the way of life you learned 21 when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
So in conclusion God keeps his promise to those who because of their hunger and thirst for righteousness enter the new covenant and so believe all the promises of God. He does that by giving them a new self that he has created to be like him in true holiness and righteousness. A new self that is put on by being confident that God will do he has promised.
Kerwin: Beautiful post. Wonderful scriptures. But I'm lost!! Eph.4:22 you quoted…we are taught to put of our old self {wouldn't that be the old way of works and service unto God with offerings and sacrifices as an attempt for righteousness/or perfection unto God?}…V23 to be made new in the ATTITUED OF YOUR MINDS…{is that not being re-born, mentally, through the words of Christ, to a new way of thinking?}….V24…to put on the new self {new creature, new man, born anew in mind}….created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. {The new man is created in righteousness and holiness, in the mind, through the words/spirit of God}
That new creation in the mind, that is righteous and holy, cannot have any sin whatsoever! There is no sin in Christ. We must discern what sin really is. Is sin a work or deed? Is sin an error of thinking? I believe sin from the begining was a mistaken belief of wrong doing that separated man from perfection in God.
So in conclusion God keeps his promise by faith. If a person is righteous by faith or righteous by believing what God said through Jesus, then he is cleansed, pure righteous and holy by faith/believing….not by works good or bad, justified by faith, not through deeds considered good or bad. Works or deeds are apart from believing by faith.
I will forgive their wickedness and their sin I will remember no more!
Righteousness is by faith in what Jesus says from God. Un-righteousness is not believing Jesus. We join to God by believing in HIS righteousness given to us and accepted by faith. Faith righteousness is not by works or deeds of any kind!! IMO, TK
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 03 2011,02:51) Pierre, I am unsure if you are making the connections I am pointing to in scriptures so I am going to do a walk through.
First let’s read Jeremiah 31:31-34…
31 “The days are coming,” declares the LORD,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the LORD.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the LORD.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the LORD.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”…which contrasts the Old Covenant to the New. One thing we learn is that in the Old one person taught another how to know the Lord while in the New God will write his law of love on their hearts and put it in their minds so they will know him. It is not something they do but what God does as he is the one who writes it on their hearts and puts it in their mind. This is what I am saying as he does it by living in and through them by the Holy Spirit.
That is why we are taught:
Romans 9
30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:
“See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.”When you pursue something by faith instead of by your own works God works through that faith and accomplishes what he promised. Did Abraham father Isaac because of his own efforts or did God do as he promised and worked so that Sarah conceived and bore Isaac? Did Daniel shut the mouths of the lions by his efforts or did God do it by his efforts. In conclusion faith bears fruit which are the works of God while the efforts of a human fall short of the goal.
Abraham was credited with righteousness because he believed what God promised. One promise of the new covenant is:
Matthew 5:6
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.To be filled with righteousness means to filled with a righteousness that is created to be like God’s which we are to put on just as scripture instructs us:
Ephesians 4
20 That, however, is not the way of life you learned 21 when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
So in conclusion God keeps his promise to those who because of their hunger and thirst for righteousness enter the new covenant and so believe all the promises of God. He does that by giving them a new self that he has created to be like him in true holiness and righteousness. A new self that is put on by being confident that God will do he has promised.
Kerwinlook at what Tim tells you he as it right here,
and my scriptures i have showed you is that faith =believe and that is what some of the Israelite did not have and God punish them in the desert,
Nu 14:11 The LORD said to Moses, “How long will these people treat me with contempt? How long will they refuse to believe in me, in spite of all the miraculous signs I have performed among them?
those words sound familiar with Jesus??
Pierre
Pierre and Tim,
Remember that Jesus taught us to remain in him so that we will bear good fruit? The fruit he speaks of is the works of righteousness. We are taught the works of righteousness are summed up in the command “Love your neighbor as yourself”, Romans 13:8-10. If we love then we do not sin. If we sin then our love is not complete.
Jesus instructs us to come to him if we are burdened with our fantasies and actions, Matthew 11:28-30; for those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, Matthew 5:6, are burned by their sinful thoughts and works. He also informs us that if we do not remain in him then he will not remain in us. He takes the burden from us by doing his works through us because we obey his teaching and so believe all of what he taught, John 15:5.
If we instead choose to obtain righteousness by our own works then we will fail even as a branch that does not remain in the vine cannot bear fruit. So to bear fruit we must believe the promises of God even as Abraham did. But the result of that faith will be evident in that we will mature to bear the fruit of love your neighbor as yourself.
Now as an example of how God work’s through faith look to the miracle of the woman who was cured from her long-term bleeding because she believed that even a touch on the clothes of Jesus would heal her because God worked through him, Mark 5:25-34. You can see by Jesus statement that her faith healed her that it was God working through her faith that healed her. The healing of our spiritual self is the same as God heals us through Jesus because we believe God will do it for the name of his Son.
This is a situation where you are either doing as commanded or you are not since there is only one command. This command is live by the spirit, Galatians 5:16, which is the same as the command to love your neighbor as yourself. This Spirit of God’s love is the spirit Jesus lived and lives by and it comes from God. It is this Spirit by which God and Jesus dwell in and do their works through those that believe. It is this spirit that fills your heart with love for yourself, your neighbor, and God as well as reshapes your mind to be focused on the things of God in all the actions of your mind.
Romans 1:21-25 speaks of those that do not believe even though they may claim to be Christians. It speaks of them because their heats are far from God even though their words may not be.
References are from NIV.John 15
4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
Mark 5
25 And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years. 26 She had suffered a great deal under the care of many doctors and had spent all she had, yet instead of getting better she grew worse. 27 When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak, 28 because she thought, “If I just touch his clothes, I will be healed.” 29 Immediately her bleeding stopped and she felt in her body that she was freed from her suffering.
30 At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, “Who touched my clothes?”
31 “You see the people crowding against you,” his disciples answered, “and yet you can ask, ‘Who touched me?’ ”
32 But Jesus kept looking around to see who had done it. 33 Then the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came and fell at his feet and, trembling with fear, told him the whole truth. 34 He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering.”
Matthew 11
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Matthew 5
He said:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.Galatians 5
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Romans 13
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 1
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Kerwin,
I second what Ed said. Excellent post and scriptures. To my own personal view, I read in scripture that Jesus was saying that rightiousness was and is not obtained in works. Faith in Jesus does. Here is where it gets complicated for some
I think the works Jesus and Paul were referring to was the old testament way of atonement. Observing all the mosaic rules and anamal sacrifices etc. The law of the temple. God in his greatness knew that he gave them laws that they could not become complete in. The ritual washings, the strict rule observing, the exact laws written in the torah were put in place to glorify the new covenant.
In our day, this is exibited in my church by people who believe they are justified by traditions(roserys, saints, observing confession for atonement) while alot of these people do not undergo a true change of heart. Hence, they rely on works. Religious works are what I believe was intended. You must be circumcised in heart. Love God and Love fellow man. Those are God's two commandments that sum up everything.
My differance with Tim is that he has said there are no commands or rules to follow. Whatever one thinks is not a sin is not, no matter what the bible says. He has stated that when scriptures such as you quoted contradict that, that they are superceded by what he thinks-No commands or rules.
Now, here is the dog chasing his tail gets started. It also says in the bible that faith without works is dead as a body without breath. I think this implys that if one professes a belief in Jesus, and says they love God and fellow man, but do NOTHING for anyone else but themselves, that their faith is merely superficial. One who has faith will do something. But even then, whatever they do cannot possibly save them, only Jesus dying on the cross did that . What they do means that their faith is more than just talk. I see people who profess christianity, and are really greedy and hateful and judgemental it seems. Their works are actually bad. They use people. They gossip and slander people. They turn on their own family and cast them out when they don't agree with them. (like when little white princess brings home a black guy etc etc.) What is in ones heart will be shown by their actions and works, BUT, it doesn't save them. Jesus still does. Peace-Mark
Also, what you do shows what is in your heart. Unless you are forced to do something, what you do personally shows where your heart is. That is Gods call because he knows everything. I cannot look at someone else and see them cheating on their wife or sinning etc. and think “that person is going to hell”, Because I do not know what made them or what formed them. Maybe they were severely abused as a child or something. That aside, what you do and your actions show where your heart is. If you dont believe in something you won't support it. In the last days of time, after Babylon falls, (Revalation 14:9-)The third angel warns that if anyone worships the beast or it's image , they will be tormented for ever and ever. Doesn't that mean that a work will condemn them? v 12 says that what sustains the holy ones is that they observe God's commandments, and since worshiping the beast will be blasphemy, they won't because they observe the first commandment. Exodus 20 2-6. In those days, they will be condemned for not following the law. Even after that , in those times, v13-” Happy now are the dead who die in the Lord!” The spirit added, “Yes, they shall find rest from their labors, for their good works accompany them.” Not that their good works saved them, they just showed where thier heart was. Talk is cheap with God IMO Peace-Mark
In the parable of the vine and branches lets look. The vine is Jesus, the tree of “life”. God is “life” flowing in the vine. The vine carries the “life,spirit,power” of God to the branches (us). The branches are grafted to the vine “by faith” in order to carry the “life,spirit of God,power of God” to the world we live in. Then they can eat of life and power and feed others, and then others, hence the world over. The power of the love of God is the fruit produced by God! Our good works or efforts or trying to make a “Godly” show are nothing now nor were they anything before we even knew God. Apart from God we can do “NO MIGHTY WORKS which is the fruit of God. Apart from God means apart from goodness, life, health, healing, perfection of all! God produces health, healing, peace, joy, comfort etc.! When a human being has accepted his own personal cleansing, forgiving and purification from the words/promises of God, spoken through Jesus, then the love of God can flow in greatpower through that vessel out unto the whole world.
Any mind hoarding thoughts of unworthyness, uncleanliness, unfaithfulness, unrighteousness, unforgiveness will be blocked from the pure power of God. This is why it is necessary to build the temple on the foundation of Jesus. As we build, Jesus,the Father and the Holy spirit come and make their abode/home. As the pure words of God come forth with understanding they create light, energy, good feelings etc.!
Whatever integrity you have in the earth realm is based on your honesty, willingness to compromise, trustwortyness, and honoring your word in contracts and agreements with other people.If you are that on earth then your heart is that in heaven. Your mouth speaketh from the abundance of your heart. Either good or condemnation of others, bad!! The Kingdom of God is not meat or drink or drugs or pills. The Kingdom of God is peace, love, joy, happiness, meekness and kindness in the Holy Ghost. (Matt.15:17)Jesus said, nothing going into the mouth can defile a man, make one a sinner, make you unclean, etc., because it passes through and out into the latrine. But those things that proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart: and they defile a man. that defiles a man. For out of the HEART proceed {eivl thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies…these are the things that defile a man!!!!}
THOUGHTS from the mind defile long before works or deeds. Jesus cleansed us so we could think clean. Jesus saved us so we can be free from sin! Jesus ordained us to do Gods power works unto the world. People it is a mind/heart cleansing first. You fruit will always be commensurate with the cleanliness of your mind, by faith. IMO, TK
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 04 2011,04:47) Pierre and Tim, Remember that Jesus taught us to remain in him so that we will bear good fruit? The fruit he speaks of is the works of righteousness. We are taught the works of righteousness are summed up in the command “Love your neighbor as yourself”, Romans 13:8-10. If we love then we do not sin. If we sin then our love is not complete.
Jesus instructs us to come to him if we are burdened with our fantasies and actions, Matthew 11:28-30; for those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, Matthew 5:6, are burned by their sinful thoughts and works. He also informs us that if we do not remain in him then he will not remain in us. He takes the burden from us by doing his works through us because we obey his teaching and so believe all of what he taught, John 15:5.
If we instead choose to obtain righteousness by our own works then we will fail even as a branch that does not remain in the vine cannot bear fruit. So to bear fruit we must believe the promises of God even as Abraham did. But the result of that faith will be evident in that we will mature to bear the fruit of love your neighbor as yourself.
Now as an example of how God work’s through faith look to the miracle of the woman who was cured from her long-term bleeding because she believed that even a touch on the clothes of Jesus would heal her because God worked through him, Mark 5:25-34. You can see by Jesus statement that her faith healed her that it was God working through her faith that healed her. The healing of our spiritual self is the same as God heals us through Jesus because we believe God will do it for the name of his Son.
This is a situation where you are either doing as commanded or you are not since there is only one command. This command is live by the spirit, Galatians 5:16, which is the same as the command to love your neighbor as yourself. This Spirit of God’s love is the spirit Jesus lived and lives by and it comes from God. It is this Spirit by which God and Jesus dwell in and do their works through those that believe. It is this spirit that fills your heart with love for yourself, your neighbor, and God as well as reshapes your mind to be focused on the things of God in all the actions of your mind.
Romans 1:21-25 speaks of those that do not believe even though they may claim to be Christians. It speaks of them because their heats are far from God even though their words may not be.
References are from NIV.John 15
4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
Mark 5
25 And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years. 26 She had suffered a great deal under the care of many doctors and had spent all she had, yet instead of getting better she grew worse. 27 When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak, 28 because she thought, “If I just touch his clothes, I will be healed.” 29 Immediately her bleeding stopped and she felt in her body that she was freed from her suffering.
30 At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, “Who touched my clothes?”
31 “You see the people crowding against you,” his disciples answered, “and yet you can ask, ‘Who touched me?’ ”
32 But Jesus kept looking around to see who had done it. 33 Then the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came and fell at his feet and, trembling with fear, told him the whole truth. 34 He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering.”
Matthew 11
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Matthew 5
He said:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.Galatians 5
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Romans 13
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 1
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Kerwinunderstand that God never change ,the words that Christ spook were from God his father,
wen Jesus says to remain in his teachings this was ,the way now God made it possible for men to receive reconciliation with him.
Pierre
Kerwin, your posts on page five were really good, I dont read all posts on the forum. But lately I have been reading yours. They are good, and speak truth. Amen to what you are writting.
Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 04 2011,01:28) Now, here is the dog chasing his tail gets started. It also says in the bible that faith without works is dead as a body without breath. I think this implys that if one professes a belief in Jesus, and says they love God and fellow man, but do NOTHING for anyone else but themselves, that their faith is merely superficial. One who has faith will do something. But even then, whatever they do cannot possibly save them, only Jesus dying on the cross did that . What they do means that their faith is more than just talk. I see people who profess christianity, and are really greedy and hateful and judgemental it seems. Their works are actually bad. They use people. They gossip and slander people. They turn on their own family and cast them out when they don't agree with them. (like when little white princess brings home a black guy etc etc.) What is in ones heart will be shown by their actions and works, BUT, it doesn't save them. Jesus still does. Peace-Mark
Mark I agree. When you are truly in God and God in you then you see things differently and have huge compassion for others which cant be helped.But that can go away. And only by drawing closer to God again can it come back the same I think. In its full strength, though its there even when we dont realise it.
Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 04 2011,03:53) Kerwin, your posts on page five were really good, I dont read all posts on the forum. But lately I have been reading yours. They are good, and speak truth. Amen to what you are writting.
Thank you! I believe God is speaking through me at times. I hope and seek for the times to become greater in number.To all,
God does not change even as Pierre stated and the God of the Old Testament is the God of the New. Some reject that idea because of their lack of understanding of how God actions recorded in the Old are actions of love. That fail to understand the mankind, who lives according to the points of view of this sinful world, does not understand love. In order to understand you must learn from God.
To learn from God consider that that the Holy Spirit speaks through the prophet Ezekiel to tells us God wants each and every sinner to turn away from his sinful ways and do all that is right so that he may live, Ezekiel 19:27-32. He said that to those that lived before the new covenant, even though he knew they were bound to sin, in order to express what he desires from his people and why. To be righteous you must love your neighbor as God loves you. His people are those whose souls long to obtain righteousness for the souls of the wicked desires sin, Proverbs 21:10.
The righteous longed to be righteous as God is righteous but could not be satisfied under the law of Moses because the Law did not set them free from the desire to commit sin but only made them aware of it. In their awareness they could strive to free themselves from their chains but they could not break them as their spirit was corrupt, though not their soul. They needed a new and living way and that way is Jesus the Anointed who frees us by his innocent blood which sealed the new covenant, Hebrews 10:16-20. If we obey all of Jesus’ teachings then we will receive the Holy Spirit and learn to walk according to its ways thus becoming completely mature is Jesus the Anointed.
References from KJV.
Ezekiel 18
27Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
29Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the LORD is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
30Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
32For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.Proverbs 21:10
The soul of the wicked desireth evil: his neighbour findeth no favour in his eyes.
Hebrews 10
16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;Quote (Tim Kraft @ Mar. 04 2011,01:58) In the parable of the vine and branches lets look. The vine is Jesus, the tree of “life”. God is “life” flowing in the vine. The vine carries the “life,spirit,power” of God to the branches (us). The branches are grafted to the vine “by faith” in order to carry the “life,spirit of God,power of God” to the world we live in. Then they can eat of life and power and feed others, and then others, hence the world over. The power of the love of God is the fruit produced by God! Our good works or efforts or trying to make a “Godly” show are nothing now nor were they anything before we even knew God. Apart from God we can do “NO MIGHTY WORKS which is the fruit of God. Apart from God means apart from goodness, life, health, healing, perfection of all! God produces health, healing, peace, joy, comfort etc.! When a human being has accepted his own personal cleansing, forgiving and purification from the words/promises of God, spoken through Jesus, then the love of God can flow in greatpower through that vessel out unto the whole world. Any mind hoarding thoughts of unworthyness, uncleanliness, unfaithfulness, unrighteousness, unforgiveness will be blocked from the pure power of God. This is why it is necessary to build the temple on the foundation of Jesus. As we build, Jesus,the Father and the Holy spirit come and make their abode/home. As the pure words of God come forth with understanding they create light, energy, good feelings etc.!
Whatever integrity you have in the earth realm is based on your honesty, willingness to compromise, trustwortyness, and honoring your word in contracts and agreements with other people.If you are that on earth then your heart is that in heaven. Your mouth speaketh from the abundance of your heart. Either good or condemnation of others, bad!! The Kingdom of God is not meat or drink or drugs or pills. The Kingdom of God is peace, love, joy, happiness, meekness and kindness in the Holy Ghost. (Matt.15:17)Jesus said, nothing going into the mouth can defile a man, make one a sinner, make you unclean, etc., because it passes through and out into the latrine. But those things that proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart: and they defile a man. that defiles a man. For out of the HEART proceed {eivl thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies…these are the things that defile a man!!!!}
THOUGHTS from the mind defile long before works or deeds. Jesus cleansed us so we could think clean. Jesus saved us so we can be free from sin! Jesus ordained us to do Gods power works unto the world. People it is a mind/heart cleansing first. You fruit will always be commensurate with the cleanliness of your mind, by faith. IMO, TK
Tim, I agree with this. If you take into account that the true vine of goodness from god is accessible to mankind at large, through Jesus, if they have faith in him. If they have faith in him they will show good fruit. If they don't they produce bad fruit. And “a tree is known by it's fruit”. Those negative things you mentioned would be the things produced by either disobedience or unfaithfulness, which even then are pardonable with repentance. Peace-Mark
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