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Hi 2Besee,
“For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all,
then we're all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not hence-
forth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh,
yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:
old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God,
who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ,
as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” (2 Cor 5:14-21)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgDoes 2Cor.5:14 say Jesus died for “ALL” or just for those who are water baptized? (<– please answer)
Quote (Wakeup @ April 18 2013,08:52) Quote (Resting @ April 18 2013,08:21) Quote (Wakeup @ April 17 2013,20:45) Quote (Resting @ April 17 2013,13:52) Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Resting.Verily I say unto thee;Today thou shalt be with me in paradise.
The thief could have been babtised with water sometime before he became a thief. But the fact here is that he is a thief,and theives dont get to heaven.
And yet he made it,because he was given mercy.
It is mercy that get us there;not water.
Water babtism is for repentance;but does not give us guarantee of acceptance,one can always back slide after babtised.The 10 virgins were all babtised with water,obviously.
And yet only 5 made it.wakeup.
Wakeup,You are using faulty reasoning to refuse the commandments of the Lord.
The Apostles were sent to preach as Peter and all others of Acts preached, and they were in every instance baptised in water according to the command.
The fact that you refuse to obey the doctrine of the Apostles makes it apparent, and by your answer above, that you are not born of the Spirit into the Kingdom of God today.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.Res.
Resting.Why is it faulty reasoning?
In fact it happened at the cross with the thief.
An unbabtised thief,and yet received mercy.Lets say that he was babtised before,for the remission of sins.
But became unbabtised by sinning again,for he bacame a sinner. He became a thief.There are many unbabtised today,but have changed their lives;and repented by living a God fearing life.
Water babtism is not the key to everlasting life,but mercy is
the key.Water babtism is good, as long as one keeps away from touching the unclean thing.
One can unbabtise himself by sinning again and again.wakeup.
The thief never entered the Kingdom of God in his lifetime.Peter preached the way in which people can enter the kingdom of God before they die, and it includes water baptism as Christ commanded them to preach.
This is why Peter commanded Cornelius to be baptised in water after he had received the Holy Spirit by its falling upon him.
This baptism in water there was not Johns baptism, it is baptism into Christ. The work of the Holy Spirit and the water go together.
Paul in Acts 19 showed that water baptism into Christ was still required after they had been baptised by John–
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.It is best to be joined to a people who have already been baptised into Christ and been filled with the Holy Spirit and so enter the Kingdom of God.
If you see this, then pray the Lord sends you some people like that (who are not in to the sins of the churches)
Remember that many believed and obeyed God in the OT times but none of them ever entered into the Kingdom of God in their lifetime as we can today.
Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Res
Quote (2besee @ April 18 2013,09:53) Quote (2besee @ April 17 2013,22:06)
These are Hebrews from the twelve tribes of Israel – not Gentiles.'And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand sealed, out of every tribe of the sons of Israel,
twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Judah,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Reuben,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Gad,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Asher,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Naph'tali,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Manas'seh,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Simeon,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Levi,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Is'sachar,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Zeb'ulun,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Joseph,
twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Benjamin.'
Here are the gentiles:
'After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!”
And all the angels stood round the throne and round the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God for ever and ever! Amen.”
Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and whence have they come?”
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Therefore are they before the throne of God,
and serve him day and night within his temple;
and he who sits upon the throne will shelter them with his
presence.
They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more;
the sun shall not strike them, nor any scorching heat.
For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd,
and he will guide them to springs of living water;
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”The Lamb will be their shepherd, and He will guide them to springs of living water. They will hunger no more, nor thirst anymore, and as Revelation is a spiritual book, then I understand this to mean, once they are found and saved by God.
So, have we established now that..
- -144000 are from the tribes of Israel – listed tribe by tribe.
-There is a large crowd separate too numerous to count and these are Gentiles.
No.They are both groups made up of Jews and Gentiles.
Read Isaiah ch 49.
Res.
Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2013,13:18) Does 2Cor.5:14 say Jesus died for “ALL” or just for those who are water baptized? (<– please answer) Where do any of the verses that you posted SAY not to be water baptized? or to ignore the command of Jesus and Peter TO BE water baptized? Does the verses that you posted ALLOW us to continue on in sin?
no.
Quote (2besee @ April 18 2013,18:50) Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2013,13:18) Does 2Cor.5:14 say Jesus died for “ALL” or just for those who are water baptized? (<– please answer) Where do any of the verses that you posted SAY not to be water baptized? or to ignore the command of Jesus and Peter TO BE water baptized? Does the verses that you posted ALLOW us to continue on in sin?
no.
Hi 2Besee,“Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.” (Romans 6:1-2)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ April 18 2013,19:09) Quote (2besee @ April 18 2013,18:50) Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2013,13:18) Does 2Cor.5:14 say Jesus died for “ALL” or just for those who are water baptized? (<– please answer) Where do any of the verses that you posted SAY not to be water baptized? or to ignore the command of Jesus and Peter TO BE water baptized? Does the verses that you posted ALLOW us to continue on in sin?
no.
Hi 2Besee,“Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.” (Romans 6:1-2)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
“Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.” (2 Cor 1:21-22)“For by one Spirit are we all baptized (with the HolySpirit) into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Cor 12:13)Do you see the word “water” in this verse?
Quote (Wakeup @ April 18 2013,13:02) Quote (2besee @ April 18 2013,09:35) Quote (Wakeup @ April 18 2013,01:32) Quote (2besee @ April 17 2013,21:26) Wakeup,
If I may…Quote THE UNBABTISED MAN STOOD FAST,REFUSED THE MARK UNTO DEATH. Augustine, 419 AD – “Those who, though they have not received the washing of regeneration, DIE FOR THE CONFESSION OF CHRIST – it avails them just as much for the forgiveness of their sins as if they had been washed in the sacred font of baptism. For he that said, `If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he will not enter the kingdom of heaven,’ made an exception for them in that other statement in which he says no less generally, `Whoever confesses me before men, I too will confess him before my Father, who is in heaven’”
Quote THE BABTISED MAN COULD NOT TAKE THE PRESSURE,
AND BECAUSE HE LOVED HIS FAMILY SO MUCH,HE HAD TO TAKE THE MARK,SO THEY COULD HAVE FOOD TO EAT.Firstly, I do not believe that the mark is literal, but – going with your story – God knows the heart of man, and so God is the judge.
If that person took some literal mark out of love for his family – so they would not starve to death – then, that is love.
God knows the intentions of a man.
If the mark is spiritual, which I believe it is – then these verses would apply:
Hebrews 6:4-9.
'It is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.
For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God.
But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.'Hebrews 10:27-31.
'If we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.
A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses.
How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?
For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.'Makes more sense for a spiritual mark, don't you think?
Anyway, will let Resting answer your questions.
2Besee.If the mark of the beast is not literal;
perhaps you could tell me what it is.wakeup.
Wakeup:
Forehead = Mind
With or without actions Right Hand)The law was written on our hearts and Jesus said that not a dot of the law will pass away but instead the law became harder because it is now a matter of ones thoughts (mind) as well as actions (right hand).
Rev 12
17The dragon became angry with the woman and went away to do battle against the rest of her children, the ones who keep God's commandments and hold on to the testimony about Jesus. 18Then the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore.
The dragon is the Devil.
This is recapitulated (retold in a different way) in Rev 14… The beast is the dragon (The Devil)Rev 14
9Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying in a loud voice, “Whoever worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or his hand 10will drink the wine of God’s wrath, which has been poured undiluted into the cup of his anger. He will be tortured with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the lamb. 11The smoke from their torture goes up forever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” (They are alive on earth in torture)
12Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to their faithfulness in Jesus:
13I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this:
How blessed are the dead,
that is, those who die in the Lord from now on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit.
“Let them rest from their labors,
for their actions follow them.”Commandments – faith – and actions.
This is the way that I am seeing it.
Thank you Besee.Thats the sda teachings.
1.How would you buy, or sell with that mark?
2.How would an atheist buy or sell,for he does not believe in anything spiritual?
3. How would that mark add up to 666? for it is a number of one man.wakeup.
I am going to read Rev more before I answer.My belief is my belief, if the Adventists believe similar well good on them, they may be right. They believe I think that the mark is something to do with the Sabbath where I believe it is to do with ALL of the ten commandments of God, which is summed up as love of God and love of neighbor. BTW the Adventists are NOT Amillenial, so you got that bit wrong.
IF it is spiritual and unseen (the mark) then you are waiting for a literal mark (a microchip) which may never come.
Why do i believe it is unseen? Because it goes back to the O.T, with the New.
Mark 12:28-34
‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord, and you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.”
Then the scribe told him, “Well said, Teacher! You have told the truth that ‘God is one, and there is no other besides him.’ To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding, and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all the burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
When Jesus saw how wisely the man answered, he told him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.”Old Testament.
Deut 11:13-22
“And if you will indeed obey my commandments that I command you today, to love the Lord your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul, he will give the rain for your land in its season, the early rain and the Later Rain, that you may gather in your Grain and your Wine and your Oil. And he will give grass in your fields for your livestock, and you shall eat and be full. Take care lest your heart be deceived, and you turn aside and serve other gods and worship them; then the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you, and he will shut up the heavens, so that there will be no rain, and the land will yield no fruit, and you will perish quickly off the good land that the Lord is giving you.“You shall therefore lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and you shall bind them As a sign on your Hand, and they shall be as frontlets Between your Eyes. You shall teach them to your children, talking of them when you are sitting in your house, and when you are walking by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates, that your days and the days of your children may be multiplied in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers to give them, as long as the heavens are above the earth. For if you will be careful to do all this commandment that I command you to do, loving the Lord your God, walking in all his ways, and holding fast to him, then the Lord will drive out all these nations before you, and you will dispossess nations greater and mightier than yourselves.
Deut 6:
“ And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. You shall bind them as a Sign on your Hand, and they shall be as frontlets Between your Eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.New Testament
Revelation 13:16
The second beast forces all people—important and unimportant, rich and poor, free and slaves—to be marked On their Right Hand or on their Forehead.And then perhaps, put that with the MAN of sin in 2nd Thess….. Sin… (The body is the temple) and Rev – those who obey the commandments of God…….
Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2013,19:14) “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Cor 12:13)Do you see the word “water” in this verse?
“I thank God that I baptized none of you, …
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel:
not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” (1 Cor 1:14…17)Did Christ send the Apostle Paul to “water baptize”? “Yes” or “No”?
Quote (Resting @ April 18 2013,16:30) No. They are both groups made up of Jews and Gentiles.
Read Isaiah ch 49.
Res.
Well it looks to me like 144000 Jews (Hebrews) and the tribes and numbers are listed…. and after that numbering, a crowd that is too numerous to count – from every tribe and nation and tongue.
That is Two Groups.
Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2013,21:14) “For by one Spirit are we all baptized (with the HolySpirit) into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Cor 12:13)Do you see the word “water” in this verse?
Holy Spirit and Water. Two things, when the other scriptures are added to those ones, Ed.
Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2013,19:19) Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2013,19:14) “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Cor 12:13)Do you see the word “water” in this verse?
“I thank God that I baptized none of you, …
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel:
not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” (1 Cor 1:14…17)Did Christ send the Apostle Paul to “water baptize”? “Yes” or “No”?
What will you add to this? Your speculations?Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2013,21:30) Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2013,19:19) Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2013,19:14) “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Cor 12:13)Do you see the word “water” in this verse?
“I thank God that I baptized none of you, …
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel:
not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” (1 Cor 1:14…17)Did Christ send the Apostle Paul to “water baptize”? “Yes” or “No”?
What will you add to this? Your speculations?What will you add to all of the scriptures that i gave you Ed? Speculations?
I have no more to say to any of you at this moment, because that is so sad that you will ignore so much, and try to teach others so.
“I have planted, Apollos watered” (1 Cor 3:6)
Who did the necessary “water baptizing”?
Why is it not mentioned if it is necessary?Hi 2Besee,
Are you suggesting that they were not “water baptized” correctly in this verse…
'He said unto them, Have ye received the HolySpirit since ye believed? And
they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any HolySpirit.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.(“I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the HolySpirit.” (Mark 1:8))
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people,
that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized (with the HolySpirit) in the name of
the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the HolySpirit
came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (Acts 19:2-6)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd,
(Acts 10:44-48) 'While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.
For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
“Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.''”I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.'
(1st Peter,18-22) “For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.”
We have been through this before, a whole thread remember?
Quote (Resting @ April 18 2013,16:21) Resting,April wrote:The thief never entered the Kingdom of God in his lifetime.
Peter preached the way in which people can enter the kingdom of God before they die, and it includes water baptism as Christ commanded them to preach.
This is why Peter commanded Cornelius to be baptised in water after he had received the Holy Spirit by its falling upon him.
This baptism in water there was not Johns baptism, it is baptism into Christ. The work of the Holy Spirit and the water go together.
Paul in Acts 19 showed that water baptism into Christ was still required after they had been baptised by John–
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.It is best to be joined to a people who have already been baptised into Christ and been filled with the Holy Spirit and so enter the Kingdom of God.
If you see this, then pray the Lord sends you some people like that (who are not in to the sins of the churches)
Remember that many believed and obeyed God in the OT times but none of them ever entered into the Kingdom of God in their lifetime as we can today.
Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Res
Good post Resting. I hope that they will hear you. Or somebody reading.
Quote (2besee @ April 18 2013,19:16) Quote (Wakeup @ April 18 2013,13:02) Quote (2besee @ April 18 2013,09:35) Quote (Wakeup @ April 18 2013,01:32) Quote (2besee @ April 17 2013,21:26) Wakeup,
If I may…Quote THE UNBABTISED MAN STOOD FAST,REFUSED THE MARK UNTO DEATH. Augustine, 419 AD – “Those who, though they have not received the washing of regeneration, DIE FOR THE CONFESSION OF CHRIST – it avails them just as much for the forgiveness of their sins as if they had been washed in the sacred font of baptism. For he that said, `If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he will not enter the kingdom of heaven,’ made an exception for them in that other statement in which he says no less generally, `Whoever confesses me before men, I too will confess him before my Father, who is in heaven’”
Quote THE BABTISED MAN COULD NOT TAKE THE PRESSURE,
AND BECAUSE HE LOVED HIS FAMILY SO MUCH,HE HAD TO TAKE THE MARK,SO THEY COULD HAVE FOOD TO EAT.Firstly, I do not believe that the mark is literal, but – going with your story – God knows the heart of man, and so God is the judge.
If that person took some literal mark out of love for his family – so they would not starve to death – then, that is love.
God knows the intentions of a man.
If the mark is spiritual, which I believe it is – then these verses would apply:
Hebrews 6:4-9.
'It is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,
if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt.
For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God.
But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.'Hebrews 10:27-31.
'If we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries.
A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses.
How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?
For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.'Makes more sense for a spiritual mark, don't you think?
Anyway, will let Resting answer your questions.
2Besee.If the mark of the beast is not literal;
perhaps you could tell me what it is.wakeup.
Wakeup:
Forehead = Mind
With or without actions Right Hand)The law was written on our hearts and Jesus said that not a dot of the law will pass away but instead the law became harder because it is now a matter of ones thoughts (mind) as well as actions (right hand).
Rev 12
17The dragon became angry with the woman and went away to do battle against the rest of her children, the ones who keep God's commandments and hold on to the testimony about Jesus. 18Then the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore.
The dragon is the Devil.
This is recapitulated (retold in a different way) in Rev 14… The beast is the dragon (The Devil)Rev 14
9Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying in a loud voice, “Whoever worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or his hand 10will drink the wine of God’s wrath, which has been poured undiluted into the cup of his anger. He will be tortured with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the lamb. 11The smoke from their torture goes up forever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” (They are alive on earth in torture)
12Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to their faithfulness in Jesus:
13I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this:
How blessed are the dead,
that is, those who die in the Lord from now on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit.
“Let them rest from their labors,
for their actions follow them.”Commandments – faith – and actions.
This is the way that I am seeing it.
Thank you Besee.Thats the sda teachings.
1.How would you buy, or sell with that mark?
2.How would an atheist buy or sell,for he does not believe in anything spiritual?
3. How would that mark add up to 666? for it is a number of one man.wakeup.
I am going to read Rev more before I answer.My belief is my belief, if the Adventists believe similar well good on them, they may be right. They believe I think that the mark is something to do with the Sabbath where I believe it is to do with ALL of the ten commandments of God, which is summed up as love of God and love of neighbor. BTW the Adventists are NOT Amillenial, so you got that bit wrong.
IF it is spiritual and unseen (the mark) then you are waiting for a literal mark (a microchip) which may never come.
Why do i believe it is unseen? Because it goes back to the O.T, with the New.
Mark 12:28-34
‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord, and you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.”
Then the scribe told him, “Well said, Teacher! You have told the truth that ‘God is one, and there is no other besides him.’ To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding, and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all the
burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
When Jesus saw how wisely the man answered, he told him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.”Old Testament.
Deut 11:13-22
“And if you will indeed obey my commandments that I command you today, to love the Lord your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul, he will give the rain for your land in its season, the early rain and the Later Rain, that you may gather in your Grain and your Wine and your Oil. And he will give grass in your fields for your livestock, and you shall eat and be full. Take care lest your heart be deceived, and you turn aside and serve other gods and worship them; then the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you, and he will shut up the heavens, so that there will be no rain, and the land will yield no fruit, and you will perish quickly off the good land that the Lord is giving you.“You shall therefore lay up these words of mine in your heart and in your soul, and you shall bind them As a sign on your Hand, and they shall be as frontlets Between your Eyes. You shall teach them to your children, talking of them when you are sitting in your house, and when you are walking by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates, that your days and the days of your children may be multiplied in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers to give them, as long as the heavens are above the earth. For if you will be careful to do all this commandment that I command you to do, loving the Lord your God, walking in all his ways, and holding fast to him, then the Lord will drive out all these nations before you, and you will dispossess nations greater and mightier than yourselves.
Deut 6:
“ And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. You shall bind them as a Sign on your Hand, and they shall be as frontlets Between your Eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.New Testament
Revelation 13:16
The second beast forces all people—important and unimportant, rich and poor, free and slaves—to be marked On their Right Hand or on their Forehead.And then perhaps, put that with the MAN of sin in 2nd Thess….. Sin… (The body is the temple) and Rev – those who obey the commandments of God…….
2Besee.How would all that; apply to an atheist,or a budhist?
For the scripture says ALL SMALL AND GREAT, RICH AND POOR, FREE AND BOND, CAN NOT BUY WITHOUT THE MARK.
How would the 10 commandments apply to them?
wakeup.
Resting,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote Thousands upon thousands of believers of the OT will be saved at the judgment, but they were never required to obey the doctrine of the Apostles to enter the Kingdom of God. Res.
What judgement are you talking about? The first or the second?
There are two resurrections.
1. The first resurrection at Christ's second coming
2. The second resurrection after the millennium.Only those who died after Christ was risen can take part in the first resurrection.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Those that died before Christ under the old covenant cannot take part in the first resurrection.
Not even John the baptist will be in the first resurrection, for he died under the law.Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
John the baptist was the greatest according to Christ, of all the men born on this earth, yet whoever is least in the kingdom is greater than John the baptist.
John the baptist will be in the kingdom during the millennium, but he will be brought back in the FLESH.
Same as Job. He will be brought back in the FLESH.
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Ezekiel 37:5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live.
Ezekiel 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.Israelites only will be brought back in the flesh. Israelites that died after the new covenant will be in the first resurrection, spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
So, the saints who will be spirit during the millennium, will be ruling over the flesh Israelites in the kingdom. The flesh Israelites under the old law now have to come through Christ also. New law. New covenant, even for them.
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