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Journey you are right about Google I was just being lazy I have not looked at those verses in Amos myself, at all. I was only giving the alternative “fulfilled” view. I am not supposed to be posting. A break is good sometimes.
Quote (2besee @ April 16 2013,22:20) Wakeup and Ed, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit”
Water is water baptism. It does not mean anything else.
Listen.
Hi 2Besee,“Born of water” means our physical birth, and “born of spirit” means our spiritual re-birth.
“That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” (John 3:6)
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.” (Rom.8:9)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (2besee @ April 16 2013,22:20) Wakeup and Ed, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit”
Water is water baptism. It does not mean anything else.
Listen.
2Besee.Where is your evidence that born of water is water babtism?
You have been indoctrinated to believe that water babtism is born of water. Your mind is moulded according to their will.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ April 17 2013,00:57) Quote (2besee @ April 16 2013,22:20) Wakeup and Ed, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit”
Water is water baptism. It does not mean anything else.
Listen.
2Besee.Where is your evidence that born of water is water babtism?
You have been indoctrinated to believe that water babtism is born of water. Your mind is moulded according to their will.wakeup.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.Act 11:13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Act 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Act 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.Res.
Quote (Wakeup @ April 17 2013,00:57) Quote (2besee @ April 16 2013,22:20) Wakeup and Ed, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit”
Water is water baptism. It does not mean anything else.
Listen.
2Besee.Where is your evidence that born of water is water babtism?
You have been indoctrinated to believe that water babtism is born of water. Your mind is moulded according to their will.wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,Being baptized in water symbolizes death, and being
raised out of the water symbolizes physical resurrection.
It is strange how the religious seem to miss this connection.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote
Where is your evidence that born of water is water babtism?
You have been indoctrinated to believe that water babtism is born of water. Your mind is moulded according to their will.Where is the evidence?
“I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit”
(John.3:1-12) 'Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicode'mus, a ruler of the Jews.
This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do, unless God is with him.”
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Nicode'mus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?”
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Do not marvel that I said to you, `You must be born anew.'
The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know whence it comes or whither it goes; so it is with every one who is born of the Spirit.”
Nicode'mus said to him, “How can this be?”
Jesus answered him, “Are you a teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand this?
Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen; but you do not receive our testimony.
If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?(Mark 16:16) 'He that believes and is baptized shall be saved'
(Acts 2:38) 'Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.'[/font]
(Acts.19:1-6) 'While Apol'los was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples.
And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have never even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.”
And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”
On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.'“And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him.”
And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:38-41)(Acts 10:44-48) 'While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.
And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.
For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,
“Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.'Jesus said to Peter: “I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
'”I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.'
(Romans 6:4) 'We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.'
Jesus said Matt 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”
“Why do you call me `Lord, Lord,' and not do what I tell you?”
Every one who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like; he is like a man building a house, who dug deep, and laid the foundation upon rock; and when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house, and could not shake it, because it had been well built.
But he who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation; against which the stream broke, and immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great.”(1st Peter,18-22) “For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him.”____
The Early Church.
The Letter of Barnabas, 75 AD
“Regarding [baptism], we have the evidence of Scripture that Israel would refuse to accept the washing which confers the remission of sins and would set up a substitution of their own instead.
Shepherd Of Hermas, 80 AD
“‘I have heard, sir,’ said I, ‘from some teacher, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins.’ He said to me, ‘You have heard rightly, for so it is’”
Firmillian
“But indeed you are worse than all heretics. For when many, as soon as their error is known, come over to you from them that they may receive the true light of the Church, you assist the errors of those who come, and, obscuring the light of ecclesiastical truth, you heap up the darkness of the heretical night; and although they confess that they are in sins, and have no grace, and therefore come to the Church, you take away from them remission of sins, which is given in baptism, by saying that they are already baptized and have obtained the grace of the Church outside the Church, and you do not perceive that their souls will be required at your hands when the day of judgment shall come.”
Theodutos
“Now, regeneration is by water and spirit, as was all creation: ‘For the Spirit of God moved on the deep.’ And for this reason the Savior was baptized, though not Himself needing to be so, in ord
er that He might consecrate the whole water for those who were being regenerated. Thus it is not the body only, but the soul, that we cleanse.”Justin Martyr, 110-165 AD
“As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.’ Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers’ wombs, is manifest to all… And for this we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe.”
“There, the one who refuses to be baptized is to be condemned as an unbeliever, partially on the basis of what Jesus told Nicodemus… “He that, out of contempt, will not be baptized, shall be condemned as an unbeliever, and shall be reproached as ungrateful and foolish. For the Lord says: ‘Except a man be baptized of water and of the Spirit, he shall by no means enter into the kingdom of heaven.’ And again: ‘He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved but he that believeth not shall be damned.’”
“There is no other way [to obtain God's promises] than this-to become acquainted with Christ, to be washed in the fountain spoken of by Isaiah for the remission of sins, and for the remainder, to live sinless lives.”
“Those who are convinced that what we teach is true and who desire to live accordingly are instructed to fast and to pray to God for the remission of all their past sins. We also pray and fast with them. Then we bring them to a place where there is water, and they are regenerated in the same manner in which we ourselves were regenerated. They then receive the washing with water in the name of God (the Father and Lord of the universe) and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit. For Christ said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven”‘ (John 3:5).
Theophilus, 115-188 AD
“On the fifth day the living creatures which proceed from the waters were produced, through which also is revealed the manifold wisdom of God in these things; for who could count their multitude and various kinds? Moreover, the things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this also might be a sign of men’s being destined to receive repentance and remission of sins, through the water and laver of regeneration, as many as come to the truth, and are born again, and receive blessing from God.”
“Moreover, those things which were created from the waters were blessed by God, so that this might also be a sign that men would at a future time receive repentance and remission of sins through water and the bath of regeneration all who proceed to the truth and are born again and receive a blessing from God”
Irenaeus, 120-205 AD
“As we are lepers in sin, we are made clean from our old transgressions by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord. We are thus spiritually regenerated as newborn infants, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.’”
“This class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole faith.”
“`And [Naaman] dipped himself seven times in the Jordan’ (2 Kgs. 5:14). It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: `Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’”
Tertullian, 140-230 AD
“After the world had been hereupon set in order through its elements, when inhabitants were given it, ‘the waters’ were the first to receive the precept ‘to bring forth living creatures.’ Water was the first to produce that which had life, that it might be no wonder in baptism if waters know how to give life.”
“Baptism itself is a corporal act by which we are plunged into the water, while its effect is spiritual, in that we are freed from our sins”
“Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life! A treatise on this matter will not be superfluous; instructing not only such as are just becoming formed in the faith… The consequence is, that a viper of the Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism. Which is quite in accordance with nature; for vipers and asps and serpents themselves generally do affect arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our ikhthus, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water; so that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes, by taking them away from the water!”
“How mighty is the grace of water, in the sight of God and His Christ, for the confirmation of baptism! Never is Christ without water: if, that is, He is Himself baptized in water; inaugurates in water the first rudimentary displays of his power, when invited to the wedding; invites the thirsty, when He makes a discourse, to Himself being living water; approves, when teaching concerning love, among works of charity, the cup of water offered to a poor child; recruits His strength at a well; walks over the water; willingly crosses the sea; ministers water to his disciples. Onward even to the passion does the witness of baptism last: while He is being surrendered to the cross, water intervenes; witness Pilate’s hands: when He is wounded, forth from His side bursts water; witness the soldier’s lance!… True and stable faith is baptized with water, unto salvation; pretended and weak faith is baptized with fire, unto judgment.”
“The prescript is laid down that ‘without baptism, salvation is attainable by none’ chiefly on the ground of that declaration of the Lord, who says, ‘Unless one be born of water, he hath not life.’”
“What more disgraceful than immodesties? If, moreover, even from a ‘brother’ who ‘walketh idly’ he warns the Thessalonians to withdraw themselves, how much more withal from a fornicator! For these are the deliberate judgments of Christ, ‘loving the Church,’ who ‘hath delivered Himself up for her, that He may sanctify her (purifying her utterly by the laver of water) in the word, that He may present the Church to Him
self glorious, not having stain or wrinkle’ – of course after the laver – ‘but that she may be holy and without reproach; thereafter, to wit, being ‘without wrinkle’ as a virgin, ‘without stain’ (of fornication) as a spouse, ‘without disgrace’ (of vileness), as having been ‘utterly purified.’”“This is in agreement to the context of the words of John the Baptist when he prophesied of the baptism of fire. Referring to Jesus, John said, ‘I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire’”
“No one can attain salvation without baptism, especially in view of the declaration of the Lord, who says, `Unless a man shall be born of water, he shall not have life’”
Clement of Alexandria, 150-200 AD
“Being baptized, we are illuminated; illuminated, we become sons; being made sons, we are made perfect; being made perfect, we are made immortal… This work is variously called grace, and illumination, and perfection, and washing. Washing, by which we cleanse away our sins; grace, by which the penalties accruing to transgressions are remitted; and illumination, by which that holy light of salvation is beheld, that is, by which we see God clearly.”
“But when the time began to draw near that what was wanting in the Mosaic institutions should be supplied, as we have said, and that the Prophet should appear, of whom he had foretold that He should warn them by the mercy of God to cease from sacrificing; lest haply they might suppose that on the cessation of sacrifice there was no remission of sins for them He instituted baptism by water amongst them, in which they might be absolved from all their sins on the invocation of His name.”
“Now God has ordered everyone who worships Him to be sealed by baptism; but if you refuse, and obey your own will rather than God’s, you are doubtless contrary and hostile to His will. But you will perhaps say, ‘What does the baptism of water contribute towards the worship of God?’ In the first place, because that which hath pleased God is fulfilled. In the second place, because, when you are regenerated and born again of water and of God, the frailty of your former birth, which you have through men, is cut off, and so at length you shall be able to attain salvation; but otherwise it is impossible. For thus hath the true prophet testified to us with an oath: ‘Verily I say to you, That unless a man is born again of water, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.’ Therefore make haste; for there is in these waters a certain power of mercy which was borne upon them at the beginning, and acknowledges those who are baptized under the name of the threefold sacrament, and rescues them from future punishments, presenting as a gift to God the souls that are consecrated by baptism. Betake yourselves therefore to these waters, for they alone can quench the violence of the future fire; and he who delays to approach to them, it is evident that the idol of unbelief remains in him, and by it he is prevented from hastening to the waters which confer salvation.”
“This work is variously called grace, and illumination, and perfection, and washing. Washing, by which we cleanse away our sins. Grace, by which the penalties of our sins are canceled. And illumination, by which that holy light of salvation is beheld, that is, by which we see God clearly.”
“We are washed from all our sins, and are no longer entangled in evil. This is the one grace of illumination, that our characters are not the same as before our washing… In the same way, therefore, we also, repenting of our sins, renouncing our iniquities, purified by baptism, speed back to the eternal light, children to the Father.”
“When he had given them these and such like precepts, he made proclamation to the people, saying: ‘Since I have resolved to stay three months with you, if any one desires it, let him be baptized; that, stripped of his former evils, he may for the future, in consequence of his own conduct, become heir of heavenly blessings, as a reward for his good actions.”
Cyprian, 200 AD
“While I was lying in darkness . . . I thought it indeed difficult and hard to believe . . . that divine mercy was promised for my salvation, so that anyone might be born again and quickened unto a new life by the laver of the saving water, he might put off what he had been before, and, although the structure of the body remained, he might change himself in soul and mind. . . . But afterwards, when the stain of my past life had been washed away by means of the water of rebirth, a light from above poured itself upon my chastened and now pure heart; afterwards, through the Spirit which is breathed from heaven, a second birth made of me a new man”
Council of Carthage, 200-258 AD
“in the Gospel our Lord Jesus Christ spoke with His divine voice, saying, ‘Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.’ This is the Spirit which from the beginning was borne over the waters; for neither can the Spirit operate without the water, nor the water without the Spirit.”
“But as often as water is named alone in the Holy Scriptures, baptism is referred to, as we see intimated in Isaiah: ‘Remember not,’ says he, ‘the former things, and consider not the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing, which shall now spring forth; and ye shall know it. I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the dry place, to give drink to my elected people, my people whom I have purchased, that they might show forth my praise.’ There God foretold by the prophet, that among the nations, in places which previously had been dry, rivers should afterwards flow plenteously, and should provide water for the elected people of God, that is, for those who were made sons of God by the generation of baptism…. Christ… cries and says, ‘If any man thirst, let him come and drink. He that believeth on me, as the Scripture saith, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.’ And that it might be more evident that the Lord is speaking there, not of the cup, but of baptism, the Scripture adds, saying, ‘But this spake He of the Spirit, which they that believe on Him should receive.’ For by baptism the Holy Spirit is received… As also, in another place, the Lord speaks to the Samaritan woman, saying, ‘Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again; but whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him, shall not thirst for ever.’ By which is also signified the very baptism of saving water, which indeed is once received, and is not again repeated..”
“For the second birth, which occurs in baptism, begets sons of God.”
“Considering my character at the time, I used to regard it as a difficult matter that a man should be able to be born again…. Or that a man who had been revived to a new life in the bath of saving water could be able to put off what he had formerly been-that he could be changed in heart and soul, while retaining his physical body…. For as I myself was held in bonds by the innumerable errors of my previous life, from which I did not believe that I could by possibility be delivered, so I was disposed to acquiesce in my clinging vices, and because I despaired of better things, I used to indulge my sins as if they were actually a part of me, inherent in me. But later, by the help of the water of new birth, the stain of former years was washed away, and a light from above-serene and pure was infused into my reconciled heart. Then through the Spirit bre
athed from heaven, a second birth restored me to a new man.”The Recognitions of Clement, 221 AD
“But you will perhaps say, `What does the baptism of water contribute toward the worship of God?’ In the first place, because that which has pleased God is fulfilled. In the second place, because when you are regenerated and born again of water and of God, the frailty of your former birth, which you have through men, is cut off, and so . . . you shall be able to attain salvation; but otherwise it is impossible. For thus has the true prophet [Jesus] testified to us with an oath: `Verily, I say to you, that unless a man is born again of water . . . he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’”
Aphraahat the Persian Sage, 340 AD
“From baptism we receive the Spirit of Christ. At that same moment in which the priests invoke the Spirit, heaven opens, and he descends and rests upon the waters, and those who are baptized are clothed in him. The Spirit is absent from all those who are born of the flesh, until they come to the water of rebirth, and then they receive the Holy Spirit. . . . In the second birth, that through baptism, they receive the Holy Spirit”
Cyril, 345 AD
“For all things whatsoever thou hast done shall be forgiven thee, whether it be fornication, or adultery, or any other such form of licentiousness. What can be greater sin than to crucify Christ? Yet even of this Baptism can purify. For so spake Peter to the three thousand who came to him, to those who had crucified the Lord, when they asked him, saying, ‘Men and brethren, what shall we do?’ For the wound is great. Thou hast made us think of our fall, O Peter, by saying, ‘Ye killed the Prince of Life.’ What salve is there for so great a wound? What cleansing for such foulness? What is the salvation for such perdition? ‘Repent,’ saith he, ‘and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.’ O unspeakable loving kindness of God! They have no hope of being saved, and yet they are thought worthy of the Holy Ghost. Thou seest the power of Baptism!”
“The Lord… has granted repentance at Baptism, in order that we may cast off the chief – nay rather the whole burden of our sins, and having received the seal by the Holy Ghost, may be made heirs of eternal life.”
“When going down, therefore, into the water, think not of the bare element, but look for salvation by the power of the Holy Ghost: for without both thou canst not possibly be made perfect. It is not I that say this, but the Lord Jesus Christ, who has the power in this matter: for He saith, ‘Except a man be born anew’ (and he adds the words) ‘of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.’ Neither doth he that is baptized with water, but not found worthy of the Spirit, receive the grace in perfection. Nor if a man be virtuous in his deeds, but receive not the seal by water, shall he enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
“If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation. The only exception is the martyrs, who, even without water, will receive baptism, for the Savior calls martyrdom a baptism [Mark 10]. . . . Bearing your sins, you go down into the water; but the calling down of grace seals your soul and does not permit that you afterwards be swallowed up by the fearsome dragon. You go down dead in your sins, and you come up made alive in righteousness”
“Since man is of a twofold nature, composed of body and soul, the purification also is twofold: the corporeal for the corporeal and the incorporeal for the incorporeal. The water cleanses the body, and the Spirit seals the soul. . . . When you go down into the water, then, regard not simply the water, but look for salvation through the power of the Spirit. For without both you cannot attain to perfection. It is not I who says this, but the Lord Jesus Christ, who has the power in this matter. And he says, `Unless a man be born again’ and he adds the words `of water and of the Spirit’ `he cannot enter the kingdom of God.’ He that is baptized with water, but is not found worthy of the Spirit, does not receive the grace in perfection. Nor, if a man be virtuous in his deeds, but does not receive the seal by means of the water, shall he enter the kingdom of heaven. A bold saying, but not mine; for it is Jesus who has declared it”
Athanasius, 360 AD
“As we are all from earth and die in Adam, so being regenerated from above of water and Spirit, in the Christ we are all quickened”
Basil the Great, 375 AD
“This then is what it means to be `born again of water and Spirit’: Just as our dying is effected in the water [Rom. 6:3, Col. 2:12-13], our living is wrought through the Spirit. In three immersions and an equal number of invocations the great mystery of baptism is completed in such a way that the type of death may be shown figuratively, and that by the handing on of divine knowledge the souls of the baptized may be illuminated. If, therefore, there is any grace in the water, it is not from the nature of water, but from the Spirit’s presence there”
“For prisoners, baptism is ransom, forgiveness of debts, the death of sin, regeneration of the soul, a resplendent garment, an unbreakable seal, a chariot to heaven, a royal protector, a gift of adoption”
Ambrose of Milan, 381 AD
“Although we are baptized with water and the Spirit, the latter is much superior to the former, and is not therefore to be separated from the Father and-the Son. There are, however, many who, because we are baptized with water and the Spirit, think that there is no difference in the offices of water and the Spirit, and therefore think that they do not differ in nature. Nor do they observe that we are buried in the element of water that we may rise again renewed by the Spirit. For in the water is the representation of death, in the Spirit is the pledge of life, that the body of sin may die through the water, which encloses the body as it were in a kind of tomb, that we, by the power of the Spirit, may be renewed from the death of sin, being born again in God”
“The Church was redeemed at the price of Christ’s blood. Jew or Greek, it makes no difference; but if he has believed, he must circumcise himself from his sins [in baptism (Col. 2-12)] so that he can be saved . . . for no one ascends into the kingdom of heaven except through the sacrament of baptism. . . . `Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God’”
“The Lord was baptized, not to be cleansed himself but to cleanse the waters, so that those waters, cleansed by the flesh of Christ which knew no sin, might have the power of baptism. Whoever comes, therefore, to the washing of Christ lays aside his sins”
“You have read, therefore, that the three witnesses in baptism are one: water, blood, and the Spirit (1 John 5:8): And if you withdraw any one of these, the sacrament of baptism is not valid. For what is the water without the cross of Christ? A common element with no sacramental effect. Nor on the other hand is there any mystery of regeneration without water, for `unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God’”
Gregory of Nyssa, 382 AD
“In the birth by water and the Spirit, [Jesus] himself led the way in this birth, drawing down upon the water, by his own baptism, the Holy Spirit; so that in all things he became the first-born of those who are spiritually born again, and gave the name of b
rethren to those who partook in a birth like to his own by water and the Spirit”John Chrysostom, 387 AD
“No one can enter into the kingdom of Heaven except he be regenerate through water and the Spirit, and he who does not eat the flesh of the Lord and drink His blood is excluded from eternal life, and if all these things are accomplished only by means of those holy hands, I mean the hands of the priest, how will any one, without these, be able to escape the fire of hell, or to win those crowns which are reserved for the victorious? These [priests] truly are they who are entrusted with the pangs of spiritual travail and the birth which comes through baptism: by their means we put on Christ, and are buried with the Son of God, and become members of that blessed Head”
Gregory Nazianz, 388 AD
“Such is the grace and power of baptism; not an overwhelming of the world as of old, but a purification of the sins of each individual, and a complete cleansing from all the bruises and stains of sin. And since we are double-made, I mean of body and soul, and the one part is visible, the other invisible, so the cleansing also is twofold, by water and the spirit; the one received visibly in the body, the other concurring with it invisibly and apart from the body; the one typical, the other real and cleansing the depths”
Crysostom, 390 AD
“In the Law, he that hath sin is punished; here, he that hath sins cometh and is baptized and is made righteous, and being made righteous, he liveth, being delivered from the death of sin… For in Baptism the sins are buried, the former things are blotted out, the man is made alive, the entire grace written upon his heart as it were a table.”
The Apostolic Constitutions, 400 AD
“Be ye likewise contented with one baptism alone, that which is into the death of the Lord [Rom. 6:3, Col. 2:12-13] . . . He that out of contempt will not be baptized shall be condemned as an unbeliever and shall be reproached as ungrateful and foolish. For the Lord says, `Except a man be baptized of water and of the Spirit, he shall by no means enter into the kingdom of heaven.’ And again, `He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believes not shall be damned’”
Augustine, 419 AD
“Those who, though they have not received the washing of regeneration, die for the confession of Christ–it avails them just as much for the forgiveness of their sins as if they had been washed in the sacred font of baptism. For he that said, `If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he will not enter the kingdom of heaven,’ made an exception for them in that other statement in which he says no less generally, `Whoever confesses me before men, I too will confess him before my Father, who is in heaven’” [/font][/size]
Where is Your evidence?
Quote (Resting @ April 17 2013,12:02) Quote (Wakeup @ April 17 2013,00:57) Quote (2besee @ April 16 2013,22:20) Wakeup and Ed, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit”
Water is water baptism. It does not mean anything else.
Listen.
2Besee.Where is your evidence that born of water is water babtism?
You have been indoctrinated to believe that water babtism is born of water. Your mind is moulded according to their will.wakeup.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.Act 11:13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Act 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Act 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.Res.
Resting, they will not hear those verses. I have been over this many times with them.
Quote (2besee @ April 16 2013,14:29) (This is off topic, sorry) But of course the 'Teachers' up here ignore what Jesus and the Disciples taught – and they say (You included Ed) that Water Baptism is not necessary, despite what scripture do say – because most of you are Hyperdispensationilists (It appears!)
Scriptures:
John.3:1-12
Mark 16:16
Acts 2:38
Acts.19:1-6
Acts 2:38-41
Acts 10:44-48
Romans 6:4
Matt 28:19
1st Peter,18-22Early Church:
Justin Martyr, 110-165 AD
“There, the one who refuses to be baptized is to be condemned as an unbeliever, partially on the basis of what Jesus told Nicodemus…. “He that, out of contempt, will not be baptized, shall be condemned as an unbeliever, and shall be reproached as ungrateful and foolish. For the Lord says: ‘Except a man be baptized of water and of the Spirit, he shall by no means enter into the kingdom of heaven.’ And again: ‘He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved but he that believeth not shall be damned.’”
“There is no other way [to obtain God's promises] than this – to become acquainted with Christ, to be washed in the fountain spoken of by Isaiah for the remission of sins, and for the remainder, to live sinless lives.”
“Those who are convinced that what we teach is true and who desire to live accordingly are instructed to fast and to pray to God for the remission of all their past sins. We also pray and fast with them. Then we bring them to a place where there is water, and they are regenerated in the same manner in which we ourselves were regenerated. They then receive the washing with water in the name of God (the Father and Lord of the universe) and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit. For Christ said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven”‘ (John 3:5).
Theophilus, 115-188 AD
“On the fifth day the living creatures which proceed from the waters were produced, through which also is revealed the manifold wisdom of God in these things; for who could count their multitude and various kinds? Moreover, the things proceeding from the waters were blessed by God, that this also might be a sign of men’s being destined to receive repentance and remission of sins, through the water and laver of regeneration, as many as come to the truth, and are born again, and receive blessing from God.”
“Moreover, those things which were created from the waters were blessed by God, so that this might also be a sign that men would at a future time receive repentance and remission of sins through water and the bath of regeneration all who proceed to the truth and are born again and receive a blessing from God”
Irenaeus 120-205 AD
“As we are lepers in sin, we are made clean from our old transgressions by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord. We are thus spiritually regenerated as newborn infants, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.’”
“This class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole faith.”
“And Naaman dipped himself seven times in the Jordan’ (2 Kgs. 5:14). It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: `Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’”
Harsh words by Irenaeus.
Anyway – no more to say. Take care.
2beeQuote “And Naaman dipped himself seven times in the Jordan’ (2 Kgs. 5:14). It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. you do not understand the story of Naaman ,and it as nothing to do with baptism of John except for the need to obey to what is needed for you to obtain what you want or ask,(like you want to be saved by God then you obey his will not yours )
Quote (2besee @ April 17 2013,06:21) Quote (Resting @ April 17 2013,12:02) Quote (Wakeup @ April 17 2013,00:57) Quote (2besee @ April 16 2013,22:20) Wakeup and Ed, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit”
Water is water baptism. It does not mean anything else.
Listen.
2Besee.Where is your evidence that born of water is water babtism?
You have been indoctrinated to believe that water babtism is born of water. Your mind is moulded according to their will.wakeup.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.Act 11:13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Act 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Act 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.Res.
Resting, they will not hear those verses. I have been over this many times with them.
2beejust because you interpreting “BORN ” into baptism in water ,does not mean that your interpretation of those scriptures are true ,
you quoting scriptures that yourself do not understand ,you go find your knowledge on the internet ,I find it in scriptures big difference ,i eat steak you go after mince mead or already shewed ,then come here and tell us we are wrong ,?
Terraricca,
Where is your evidence? You do not have any, do you.
And please, do not confuse the one post that I recently did on Amos, with the help of Google, with my belief in baptism.
I learnt about baptism through experience, and through scriptures.
You ignore scriptures – as do Wakeup, Journey, Devo, and Ed J.
You can believe what you want I have lost interest in saying anything here.
Quote (2besee @ April 16 2013,07:13) Or… Amos’ Prophecy Fulfilled
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/amos-prophecy-fulfilled/
- “After they finished speaking, James replied, ‘Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree’” (vv. 13–15).
– Acts 15:1–21Our best resource for understanding the Old Testament prophets is their inspired interpretation in the New Testament. So, we turn to Acts 15:1–21 to see how the Apostles explain the fulfillment of Amos 9:11–15.
The most significant issue the church faced in its earliest days was the place of Gentiles in the new covenant, particularly the Gentiles’ relationship to the Mosaic law. Circumcision was the flash point. For instance, the Judaizers’ attempt to impose circumcision upon the Gentile Christians in Galatia prompted Paul to write his epistle to the Galatians (Gal. 2:1–16; 5:2–4). Many Jewish Christians thought Gentile believers had to obey even the ceremonial aspects of the law of Moses. By the first century AD, after all, faithful Jews had been following this law for nearly fifteen hundred years. When they read about “the nations who are called by my name” in Amos 9:11–12, Jews naturally thought of what it meant for them to be called by God—which included the mark of circumcision—and they applied this to the Gentiles.
Yet when the Gentiles en masse began bowing to the God of Israel via faith in His Son, Jesus Christ, a remarkable thing happened. Gentile Christians were receiving the new covenant promise of the Holy Spirit without being circumcised (Acts 10; see Joel 2:28–29). The Apostles turned to the Old Testament to understand what was happening, and found that they had to reconsider their long-standing assumptions about what the prophets meant when they predicted the conversion of the nations. At the first church council in history, in Jerusalem, the Apostle James cited Amos 9:11–15 and reminded the gathered church leaders that the new covenant promise of Gentile inclusion was being fulfilled with the Gentiles’ faith in Yahweh through His Son. If God saw fit to accept the Gentiles without circumcision, the church could do no less (Acts 15:12–18).
The Apostles did not believe the Mosaic law had no place in the lives of Gentile Christians. Acts 15:19–21 reveals that all believers are bound by God’s eternal moral law, which is found in the Mosaic code alongside ceremonial and civil legislation. Before Christ, the Lord did not condemn the Gentiles for not keeping Israel’s ceremonial rules, but only for violating the moral law found on the consciences of all people (Amos 1:1–2:3). This did not change when the Gentiles became full members of the new covenant.
Coram DeoIn His great grace, God has restored the tent of David, raising His Son from the dead and seating Him on His throne. As a consequence, He is bringing the nations to worship His Son and join His covenant people. There are many peoples and nations, however, that have not yet been brought into the kingdom through faith in Christ. We are to be witnesses and lights that point people to God’s Son, calling them to faith so that His church will include all the nations called by the Lord’s name.
Passages for Further Study
Psalm 86:8–9
Ephesians 3:1–6
2beedo you find that going to google and trow a bunch of pages from other peoples view answered my question to people on the forum
NO ,I want to know what the people here think not what people have think long ago ,and when people ask you a question they looking for your personal understanding ,not what you can bring out of google 
Quote (2besee @ April 17 2013,11:21) Quote (Resting @ April 17 2013,12:02) Quote (Wakeup @ April 17 2013,00:57) Quote (2besee @ April 16 2013,22:20) Wakeup and Ed, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit”
Water is water baptism. It does not mean anything else.
Listen.
2Besee.Where is your evidence that born of water is water babtism?
You have been indoctrinated to believe that water babtism is born of water. Your mind is moulded according to their will.wakeup.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.Act 11:13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Act 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Act 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.Res.
Resting, they will not hear those verses. I have been over this many times with them.
You should let them (whoever them is) answer.Res.
Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Quote (2besee @ April 17 2013,12:25) Terraricca, You ignore scriptures – as do Wakeup, Journey, Devo, and Ed J.
Hi 2Besee,I don't ignore scriptures, I instead explain why they carry
a different meaning than you are ascribing to them.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org2besee,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote You ignore scriptures – as do Wakeup, Journey, Devo, and Ed J. 2Besse,
We have to control comments like these. What is between you and Pierre, and you and Ed, is between yourselves. Why do our names always get brought up.? We are trying to restore peace with you. Don't get offended. Christ told us that. Remember the flood. This flood contains lies. False doctrines. Doctrines of Devils. Remember, only 144,000 with the truth. Only 144,000 that followed the lamb wheresoever he goes. Only 144,000 first-fruits, with no guile coming out of their mouths. These first-fruits are the pick of the bunch in these perilous times. They have washed their robes white. They have survived the flood. The rest have to go through the fire to wash their robes white. They will get there in the end, but only through faith, and not because of knowledge. They will make a huge sacrifice, and give up their lives for Christ. Literally. This will wash them clean.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water, as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
The devil has attacked the truth. The true doctrine of God is distorted. Christ said “Many are called, but few chosen”. This tells us a lot.
In the last days there are only 144,000 alive with the full truth. This is not a lot of christians amongst the christian world. The mainstream doctrines are contaminated. Which ones? Well there are so many. Most belong to the world. Ask your church if they are exempt from taxes?, if so then they are governed by the IRS, FBI & CIA, UN (and a few others I cannot remember) This is in the USA alone. They control 750,000 churches in the USA. Their ministers cannot speak out about politics, and government agenda's that are contrary to the bible, or their funding will be cut out, and they will be closed down. In their hearts, they believe they are doing the right thing, because they are bringing people into the churches, but God sees this that they are not putting him first, but looking after their jobs. That's why Christ has warned us as individuals to eat HIS flesh. He sees what's going on behind closed doors, that the devil has sent out a flood.If we build on Christ's foundation, then we have to obey him. We can't do it our own way. We were warned that the devil has come down to us having great wrath. He has destroyed the truth, there's been a great flood, and most don't even know it. God says that the Land is desolate. The christian land is desolate. It is dry. People are hungry for truth and they are not getting it. But Christ will give it if we obey him. We will be saved from that flood. We will not be deceived, for he will lead us to all truth.
The goal of the UN is to eliminate every local church throughout the world. So we better not depend on the church for our knowledge, but the scriptures alone, and take them everywhere with us. I can relate this to the scriptures also, as God says he will destroy their pastures (church meeting places) because they have disobeyed him.
Now, I started this thread, and it's going off topic, but that's what happens when we speak about scriptures. They always opens up a can of worms, and will take us everywhere. That's ok, but please, I beg all of you. No sarcasm, no mocking, no name calling. We have to rise above that. Just peaceful discussions please. Take your swords out and use the scriptures. Common sense required too. But do it with love for the love of Christ. This is his commandment. “Love one another as I have loved you”
Quote (2besee @ April 16 2013,22:35) Journey you are right about Google I was just being lazy I have not looked at those verses in Amos myself, at all. I was only giving the alternative “fulfilled” view. I am not supposed to be posting. A break is good sometimes.
Hi 2Besse,Thank you for your honesty there. I appreciate that.
Quote (journey42 @ April 16 2013,19:24) 2besee,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote You ignore scriptures – as do Wakeup, Journey, Devo, and Ed J. 2Besse,
We have to control comments like these. What is between you and Pierre, and you and Ed, is between yourselves. Why do our names always get brought up.? We are trying to restore peace with you. Don't get offended. Christ told us that. Remember the flood. This flood contains lies. False doctrines. Doctrines of Devils. Remember, only 144,000 with the truth. Only 144,000 that followed the lamb wheresoever he goes. Only 144,000 first-fruits, with no guile coming out of their mouths. These first-fruits are the pick of the bunch in these perilous times. They have washed their robes white. They have survived the flood. The rest have to go through the fire to wash their robes white. They will get there in the end, but only through faith, and not because of knowledge. They will make a huge sacrifice, and give up their lives for Christ. Literally. This will wash them clean.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water, as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
The devil has attacked the truth. The true doctrine of God is distorted. Christ said “Many are called, but few chosen”. This tells us a lot.
In the last days there are only 144,000 alive with the full truth. This is not a lot of christians amongst the christian world. The mainstream doctrines are contaminated. Which ones? Well there are so many. Most belong to the world. Ask your church if they are exempt from taxes?, if so then they are governed by the IRS, FBI & CIA, UN (and a few others I cannot remember) This is in the USA alone. They control 750,000 churches in the USA. Their ministers cannot speak out about politics, and government agenda's that are contrary to the bible, or their funding will be cut out, and they will be closed down. In their hearts, they believe they are doing the right thing, because they are bringing people into the churches, but God sees this that they are not putting him first, but looking after their jobs. That's why Christ has warned us as individuals to eat HIS flesh. He sees what's going on behind closed doors, that the devil has sent out a flood.If we build on Christ's foundation, then we have to obey him. We can't do it our own way. We were warned that the devil has come down to us having great wrath. He has destroyed the truth, there's been a great flood, and most don't even know it. God says that the Land is desolate. The christian land is desolate. It is dry. People are hungry for truth and they are not getting it. But Christ will give it if we obey him. We will be saved from that flood. We will not be deceived, for he will lead us to all truth.
The goal of the UN is to eliminate every local church throughout the world. So we better not depend on the church for our knowledge, but the scriptures alone, and take them everywhere with us. I can relate this to the scriptures also, as God says he will destroy their pastures (church meeting places) because they have disobeyed him.
Now, I started this thread, and it's going off topic, but that's what happens when we speak about scriptures. They always opens up a can of worms, and will take us everywhere. That's ok, but please, I beg all of you. No sarcasm, no mocking, no name calling. We have to rise above that. Just peaceful discussions please. Take your swords out and use the scriptures. Common sense required too. But do it with love for the love of Christ. This is his commandment. “Love one another as I have loved you”
Hi J42,(Quote)
Remember, only 144,000 with the truth. Only 144,000 that followed the lamb wheresoever he goes. Only 144,000 first-fruits, with no guile coming out of their mouths. These first-fruits are the pick of the bunch in these perilous times. They have washed their robes white. They have survived the flood. The rest have to go through the fire to wash their robes white. They will get there in the end, but only through faith, and not because of knowledge. They will make a huge sacrifice, and give up their lives for Christ. Literally. This will wash them clean.Rom.8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23And not only they, but ourselves also, which HAVE the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? 25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.Do we actually see eye to eye? ?
Hi Res,
Quote You should let them (whoever them is) answer. Yes, waiting……
Hi Terraricca,
Quote when people ask you a question they looking for your personal understanding ,not what you can bring out of google Yes you are correct.
Hi Ed J
Quote I don't ignore scriptures, I instead explain why they carry
a different meaning than you are ascribing to them.Not myself, but most people from the earliest times. I was only trying to help, you should know that. That has always been my intention.
Hi Journey,
Get to your posts later.
Quote (2besee @ April 17 2013,15:52) Hi Ed J Quote I don't ignore scriptures, I instead explain why they carry
a different meaning than you are ascribing to them.Not myself, but most people from the earliest times. I was only trying to help, you should know that. That has always been my intention.
Hi 2Besee,When you explain what you believe, it is always a help.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgJourney,
Quote Quote You ignore scriptures – as do Wakeup, Journey, Devo, and Ed J. Quote We have to control comments like these. What is between you and Pierre, and you and Ed, is between yourselves. Why do our names always get brought up.? So do you now agree that water baptism is a part of being born again? Because that is what I as talking about. Have you changed your view?
Quote Remember, only 144,000 with the truth. Only 144,000 that followed the lamb wheresoever he goes. Only 144,000 first-fruits, with no guile coming out of their mouths. These first-fruits are the pick of the bunch in these perilous times……………In the last days there are only 144,000 alive with the full truth. These are Hebrews from the twelve tribes of Israel – not Gentiles.
'And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand sealed, out of every tribe of the sons of Israel,
twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Judah,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Reuben,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Gad,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Asher,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Naph'tali,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Manas'seh,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Simeon,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Levi,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Is'sachar,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Zeb'ulun,
twelve thousand of the tribe of Joseph,
twelve thousand sealed out of the tribe of Benjamin.'
Here are the gentiles:
'After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!”
And all the angels stood round the throne and round the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God for ever and ever! Amen.”
Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and whence have they come?”
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Therefore are they before the throne of God,
and serve him day and night within his temple;
and he who sits upon the throne will shelter them with his
presence.
They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more;
the sun shall not strike them, nor any scorching heat.
For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd,
and he will guide them to springs of living water;
and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”The Lamb will be their shepherd, and He will guide them to springs of living water. They will hunger no more, nor thirst anymore, and as Revelation is a spiritual book, then I understand this to mean, once they are found and saved by God.
Quote Ask your church ……………….. As I have said several times I do not go to church. I was raised a Baptist, and stopped going when I was a teenager. That was a long time ago.
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