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Quote (Lightenup @ April 13 2010,08:56) Quote (Elizabeth @ April 12 2010,16:08) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 01 2010,14:10) Nick,
He is the only begotten Son, not an adopted son, not a created son. A unique type of son that we cannot follow Him as. An adopted son can never be a literal offspring like a true son can. You are a doctor, you should know that.
Kathi! You are wrong here, because He was a created being in
Col. 1:15-17 and Rev. 3:14 He is the firstborn of all CREATION. God our heavenly Father is a Creator and always will be. Will we one day be that way? That is a question that I have asked before. If we believe 1 Coirinth, 15:28 it says that God will be all in all. Whether that means that we too can create, I just don't know and I don't think Scriptures ever revealed that…. any input about that?
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,
We have been through this before. I read somewhere that the term firstborn meant the first procreative fruit from a father. If I substitute this meaning, it reads like this:
He is the “first procreative fruit from a father of all creation.” That should help you see what I see a little better.See here (I found it):
Deut 21:17 Rather, he must acknowledge the son of the less loved 34 wife as firstborn and give him the double portion 35 of all he has, for that son is the beginning of his father’s procreative power 36 – to him should go the right of the firstborn.
I hope that helps,
Love ya,
Kathi
Firstborn means just that. He was the first to be born of Mary. We have a firstborn Son, then 2 more Sons, they however are not firstborn. You have too. He is the first born of all creation by the Father, Scripture is clear on that. More words just dirt's all up….. confusion is not my style…..
IreneQuote (Elizabeth @ April 13 2010,22:27) Quote (Lightenup @ April 13 2010,08:56) Quote (Elizabeth @ April 12 2010,16:08) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 01 2010,14:10) Nick,
He is the only begotten Son, not an adopted son, not a created son. A unique type of son that we cannot follow Him as. An adopted son can never be a literal offspring like a true son can. You are a doctor, you should know that.
Kathi! You are wrong here, because He was a created being in
Col. 1:15-17 and Rev. 3:14 He is the firstborn of all CREATION. God our heavenly Father is a Creator and always will be. Will we one day be that way? That is a question that I have asked before. If we believe 1 Coirinth, 15:28 it says that God will be all in all. Whether that means that we too can create, I just don't know and I don't think Scriptures ever revealed that…. any input about that?
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,
We have been through this before. I read somewhere that the term firstborn meant the first procreative fruit from a father. If I substitute this meaning, it reads like this:
He is the “first procreative fruit from a father of all creation.” That should help you see what I see a little better.See here (I found it):
Deut 21:17 Rather, he must acknowledge the son of the less loved 34 wife as firstborn and give him the double portion 35 of all he has, for that son is the beginning of his father’s procreative power 36 – to him should go the right of the firstborn.
I hope that helps,
Love ya,
Kathi
Firstborn means just that. He was the first to be born of Mary. We have a firstborn Son, then 2 more Sons, they however are not firstborn. You have too. He is the first born of all creation by the Father, Scripture is clear on that. More words just dirt's all up….. confusion is not my style…..
Irene
Irene,
Jesus was the firstborn son of Mary, true…as the Son of Man but He was the firstborn son of God before creation. He came to dwell within the Son of Man much later and God prepared His body without the agency of a human father and hence, He continued to be the Son of God as a man.Quote (Lightenup @ April 14 2010,12:06) Nick,
Jesus and the Father are one.
LU
Jesus and the father are one ,how?
means in scripturesand scriptures says ;Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the cornerJn 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Jn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Jn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are oneterricca,
They are one…God is one…believer's are one. One what?The Father and Jesus are one what?
God is one what?
Believer's are one what?Can you answer those questions?
Hi LU,
God is one.
Jesus is His Son.
No binity or multiple gods for us.For us there is one God, the Father..and one Lord, Jesus Christ.[1Cor8]
Quote (Lightenup @ April 14 2010,15:03) terricca,
They are one…God is one…believer's are one. One what?The Father and Jesus are one what?
God is one what?
Believer's are one what?Can you answer those questions?
LUthey are united in the same spirit.all in one spirit
Hi Terra,
Did you mean to say, 'They are united in one Purpose.'?
To all,
There are many 'Spirits' and it should be made clear which is bein used unless the situation is obvious 'to all'.The man drank too much of the Spirit.
This is alcoholic drink, drink with a heavy vapour(Wind – Spirit)The politician was rightly admonishes for making excessive amounts of petty expenses claims even though they 'within the rules'. He should have claimed within the Spirit of the rules.
The two players were of one spirit, united in their purpose to win the game, perfectly reading each other's play.
They each have their own personal spirit but since their determination, their purpose, is the same, it can be said that they are 'of the same Spirit', the Spirit of united purpose.The Spirit of God was in him and he was moved as that Spirit moved him, not by his own, but by that other Spirit which influenced and guided him.
The Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit is not the same as other Spirits that dwell in bodies, in the soul.
God has no Soul, that is, flesh, and His Spirit is free to go whereever it is sent, to dwell in whereever it is purposed by it's owner, God Almighty.Hence, Jesus asks his Father for the Holy Spirit, for the Holy Spirit of the Father and is given it. This, then is the 'United Spirit' of father and son, united for one purpose…to bring about the reconcilliation of the kingdom of God.
Jesus, now in possession, not the outright owner(it is still the Holy Spirit of God. Witness Joseph and Pharoah's seal. Did Joseph own Pharoah's seal just because he was in possession of it, no, of course not. Pharoah eventually took it back, was handed it back by Joseph. What analogy can be worked off that, I wonder?)
Jesus, in like manner, allows man to ask for God's Holy Spirit to join in purpose with our own spirit to achieve a united purpose that is Holy, that is, 'pleasing to God, the owner of the Spirit'
Note that Jesus is given the whole Spirit of God, that is, all the power within the Holy Spirit is His to use as He sees fit, to Glorify His Father.
Mankind is given the Holy Spirit by measure, why is that, do you think?So, LU, do you worship the Messenger who brings the Word of God and carries out His business ('Do you not know that I must be about my Father's business?')
Or should you Worship the one whom the Messenger was sent from, namely God Amighty, who says in many places and is said of by even angels, 'Worship God and God alone, and only to Him do sacred service'?LU, I left you before after urging you to desist from claiming worship if Jesus. Call it what it is 'Praise, Glory and Honor' but not worship, and all will be well with you (as far as that aspect is concerned)
Quote (Lightenup @ April 14 2010,14:53) Quote (Elizabeth @ April 13 2010,22:27) Quote (Lightenup @ April 13 2010,08:56) Quote (Elizabeth @ April 12 2010,16:08) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 01 2010,14:10) Nick,
He is the only begotten Son, not an adopted son, not a created son. A unique type of son that we cannot follow Him as. An adopted son can never be a literal offspring like a true son can. You are a doctor, you should know that.
Kathi! You are wrong here, because He was a created being in
Col. 1:15-17 and Rev. 3:14 He is the firstborn of all CREATION. God our heavenly Father is a Creator and always will be. Will we one day be that way? That is a question that I have asked before. If we believe 1 Coirinth, 15:28 it says that God will be all in all. Whether that means that we too can create, I just don't know and I don't think Scriptures ever revealed that…. any input about that?
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,
We have been through this before. I read somewhere that the term firstborn meant the first procreative fruit from a father. If I substitute this meaning, it reads like this:
He is the “first procreative fruit from a father of all creation.” That should help you see what I see a little better.See here (I found it):
Deut 21:17 Rather, he must acknowledge the son of the less loved 34 wife as firstborn and give him the double portion 35 of all he has, for that son is the beginning of his father’s procreative power 36 – to him should go the right of the firstborn.
I hope that helps,
Love ya,
Kathi
Firstborn means just that. He was the first to be born of Mary. We have a firstborn Son, then 2 more Sons, they however are not firstborn. You have too. He is the first born of all creation by the Father, Scripture is clear on that. More words just dirt's all up….. confusion is not my style…..
Irene
Irene,
Jesus was the firstborn son of Mary, true…as the Son of Man but He was the firstborn son of God before creation. He came to dwell within the Son of Man much later and God prepared His body without the agency of a human father and hence, He continued to be the Son of God as a man.
With that I agree, firstborn of all creation. I certainly said that too. I have given many Scriptures like
John !:1. 3:17.6:38-40. 17:5 and Rev. 3:14
And the one I recently discovered is Rev. 19:13 and 16
But of course this is not the preexisting tread….
IreneQuote (Lightenup @ April 14 2010,15:03) terricca,
They are one…God is one…believer's are one. One what?The Father and Jesus are one what?
God is one what?
Believer's are one what?Can you answer those questions?
LUyes i can
but i want to see your take on it ,you amaze me with your views
JA,
you said:Quote So, LU, do you worship the Messenger who brings the Word of God and carries out His business ('Do you not know that I must be about my Father's business?')
Or should you Worship the one whom the Messenger was sent from, namely God Amighty, who says in many places and is said of by even angels, 'Worship God and God alone, and only to Him do sacred service'?JA, think about it this way, in regards to sports, who gets the trophy? The coach only? Or do the athletes get the trophy also? Answer, the coach AND the athletes get the one trophy. Together, they make up ONE team. The Father and the Son make up the ONE team…both roles are essential for there to be a God that is going to save us. Btw, the Son was much more than the messenger…He had his own work to do that the Father couldn't do.
terricca,
The Father and the Son are one governing body with the Father as the head.
God is one governing body with the Father as the head and the Lord Jesus as the outstretched arm and hand.
Believer's are one body which is the church with Jesus as the head and the Father as the head of Jesus.JA,
you said:Quote God has no Soul, that is, flesh, and His Spirit is free to go whereever it is sent, to dwell in whereever it is purposed by it's owner, God Almighty. Isa 42:1
42 “Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My chosen one in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations.
NASUObviously God has a soul and a spirit. Soul does not equal flesh.
Quote (Lightenup @ April 15 2010,09:50) terricca,
The Father and the Son are one governing body with the Father as the head.
God is one governing body with the Father as the head and the Lord Jesus as the outstretched arm and hand.
Believer's are one body which is the church with Jesus as the head and the Father as the head of Jesus.
LUyou say;God is one governing body with the Father as the head and the Lord Jesus as the outstretched arm and hand
so God +the father+ Jesus=3=1
??you should stop dreaming and stick to the truth of scriptures.
this does not create a good reputation.in God and in men
Quote (Lightenup @ April 15 2010,09:50) terricca,
The Father and the Son are one governing body with the Father as the head.
God is one governing body with the Father as the head and the Lord Jesus as the outstretched arm and hand.
Believer's are one body which is the church with Jesus as the head and the Father as the head of Jesus.
Hi LU,
Jesus is in God and God is in Jesus.[Jn14]But that does not make Jesus his own God any more than you have become God.
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