The only god who is

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2010,15:35)

Quote (Lightenup @ April 13 2010,06:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2010,06:18) Hi LU, He was an earthly man, not a superman. Like Adam he had a heavenly father. He was of an earthly mother too Nick, Adam never knew God as “Father.” Adam was not a result of being begotten by God, he came as a result of being created by God.  Adam did not exist before he was the first created man.  Jesus existed long before He was born of Mary.  His origins were from ancient times, He existed before Abraham was born.  He was a supernatural being who helped create the world etc.  He gave up His supernatural abilities and memory to become a man.  You don't seem to appreciate all He gave up, or His past history. A righteous man cannot redeem even one man from his sins.  Don't you think you ought to get a better foundation?  You are crumbling. Hi LU, Jesus was not a superman. He was a son of adam[man]who was a son of God[Lk3] the more advantaged you make him the less easy he is to follow.

Nick,
You seem to only know the “descendent of David” part of Jesus and not the “root of David” part.

I would rather follow a righteous leader who is full of truth and grace and knows who He is and has God for His literal Father and is walking in the power of the kingdom of heaven, rather than some man that cannot save anyone.

If He was just a descendent of David, He could not save even one man. I have shown you that in two passages (witnesses) now.

[Elizabeth]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 01 2010,14:10)

Nick, He is the only begotten Son, not an adopted son, not a created son.  A unique type of son that we cannot follow Him as.  An adopted son can never be a literal offspring like a true son can.  You are a doctor, you should know that.

Kathi! You are wrong here, because He was a created being in
Col. 1:15-17 and Rev. 3:14 He is the firstborn of all CREATION. God our heavenly Father is a Creator and always will be. Will we one day be that way? That is a question that I have asked before. If we believe 1 Coirinth, 15:28 it says that God will be all in all. Whether that means that we too can create, I just don't know and I don't think Scriptures ever revealed that…. any input about that?
Peace and Love Irene

[Lightenup]

Quote (Elizabeth @ April 12 2010,16:08)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 01 2010,14:10) Nick, He is the only begotten Son, not an adopted son, not a created son.  A unique type of son that we cannot follow Him as.  An adopted son can never be a literal offspring like a true son can.  You are a doctor, you should know that. Kathi!   You are wrong here, because He was a created being in Col. 1:15-17 and Rev. 3:14 He is the firstborn of all CREATION.  God our heavenly Father is a Creator and always will be.  Will we one day be that way?  That is a question that I have asked before.  If we believe 1 Coirinth, 15:28 it says that God will be all in all.  Whether that means that we too can create, I just don't know and I don't think Scriptures ever revealed that….  any input about that? Peace and Love Irene

Hi Irene,
We have been through this before.  I read somewhere that the term firstborn meant the first procreative fruit from a father.  If I substitute this meaning, it reads like this:
He is the “first procreative fruit from a father of all creation.”  That should help you see what I see a little better.

See here (I found it):

Deut 21:17 Rather, he must acknowledge the son of the less loved 34  wife as firstborn and give him the double portion 35  of all he has, for that son is the beginning of his father’s procreative power 36  – to him should go the right of the firstborn.

I hope that helps,
Love ya,
Kathi

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 13 2010,07:48)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2010,15:35) Quote (Lightenup @ April 13 2010,06:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2010,06:18) Hi LU, He was an earthly man, not a superman. Like Adam he had a heavenly father. He was of an earthly mother too Nick, Adam never knew God as “Father.” Adam was not a result of being begotten by God, he came as a result of being created by God.  Adam did not exist before he was the first created man.  Jesus existed long before He was born of Mary.  His origins were from ancient times, He existed before Abraham was born.  He was a supernatural being who helped create the world etc.  He gave up His supernatural abilities and memory to become a man.  You don't seem to appreciate all He gave up, or His past history. A righteous man cannot redeem even one man from his sins.  Don't you think you ought to get a better foundation?  You are crumbling. Hi LU, Jesus was not a superman. He was a son of adam[man]who was a son of God[Lk3] the more advantaged you make him the less easy he is to follow. Nick, You seem to only know the “descendent of David” part of Jesus and not the “root of David” part. I would rather follow a righteous leader who is full of truth and grace and knows who He is and has God for His literal Father and is walking in the power of the kingdom of heaven, rather than some man that cannot save anyone. If He was just a descendent of David, He could not save even one man.  I have shown you that in two passages (witnesses) now.

Hi LU,
God was his father.
How does that make him a superman?
Can you become like him or is he just an icon to you?

[NickHassan]

Hi LU
All the human sons of God are so because God's Spirit dwells in them and empowers them.
The Lord Jesus is the head of the body and the firstborn son but he is not ashamed to call us his brothers
We are told we shall do greater things than Jesus did so where is the inherent preanointing advantage you claim he has?

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 13 2010,08:56)

Quote (Elizabeth @ April 12 2010,16:08) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 01 2010,14:10) Nick, He is the only begotten Son, not an adopted son, not a created son.  A unique type of son that we cannot follow Him as.  An adopted son can never be a literal offspring like a true son can.  You are a doctor, you should know that. Kathi!   You are wrong here, because He was a created being in Col. 1:15-17 and Rev. 3:14 He is the firstborn of all CREATION.  God our heavenly Father is a Creator and always will be.  Will we one day be that way?  That is a question that I have asked before.  If we believe 1 Coirinth, 15:28 it says that God will be all in all.  Whether that means that we too can create, I just don't know and I don't think Scriptures ever revealed that….  any input about that? Peace and Love Irene Hi Irene, We have been through this before.  I read somewhere that the term firstborn meant the first procreative fruit from a father.  If I substitute this meaning, it reads like this: He is the “first procreative fruit from a father of all creation.”  That should help you see what I see a little better. See here (I found it): 21:17 Rather, he must acknowledge the son of the less loved 34  wife as firstborn and give him the double portion 35  of all he has, for that son is the beginning of his father’s procreative power 36  – to him should go the right of the firstborn. I hope that helps, Love ya, Kathi

LU

you must be the only one understanding your quote,

you quote scriptures 21-17 which book???

also it seems to me those are not verses but very small portion of verses,??

this is the way it shoud be;;
i am sure it is to make all things clear and true so all of us can truly see your concern in quoting scripture the most honest possible,so the interpretation would be most enlightening to all.I wish this would be true but it is a lie.

[Lightenup]

Quote (terraricca @ April 12 2010,17:45)

Quote (Lightenup @ April 13 2010,08:56) Quote (Elizabeth @ April 12 2010,16:08) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 01 2010,14:10) Nick, He is the only begotten Son, not an adopted son, not a created son.  A unique type of son that we cannot follow Him as.  An adopted son can never be a literal offspring like a true son can.  You are a doctor, you should know that. Kathi!   You are wrong here, because He was a created being in Col. 1:15-17 and Rev. 3:14 He is the firstborn of all CREATION.  God our heavenly Father is a Creator and always will be.  Will we one day be that way?  That is a question that I have asked before.  If we believe 1 Coirinth, 15:28 it says that God will be all in all.  Whether that means that we too can create, I just don't know and I don't think Scriptures ever revealed that….  any input about that? Peace and Love Irene Hi Irene, We have been through this before.  I read somewhere that the term firstborn meant the first procreative fruit from a father.  If I substitute this meaning, it reads like this: He is the “first procreative fruit from a father of all creation.”  That should help you see what I see a little better. See here (I found it): 21:17 Rather, he must acknowledge the son of the less loved 34  wife as firstborn and give him the double portion 35  of all he has, for that son is the beginning of his father’s procreative power 36  – to him should go the right of the firstborn. I hope that helps, Love ya, Kathi LU you must be the only one understanding your quote, you quote scriptures 21-17 which book??? also it seems to me those are not verses but very small portion of verses,?? this is the way it shoud be;; i am sure it is to make all things clear and true so all of us can truly see your concern in quoting scripture the most honest possible,so the interpretation would be most enlightening to all.I wish this would be true but it is a lie.

terraricca,
Sorry, it is from Deuteronomy, I thought that was in there.

Deut 21:15 Suppose a man has two wives, one whom he loves more than the other, 30 and they both 31 bear him sons, with the firstborn being the child of the less loved wife. 21:16 In the day he divides his inheritance 32 he must not appoint as firstborn the son of the favorite wife in place of the other 33 wife’s son who is actually the firstborn. 21:17 Rather, he must acknowledge the son of the less loved 34 wife as firstborn and give him the double portion 35 of all he has, for that son is the beginning of his father’s procreative power – to him should go the right of the firstborn.

My point is that firstborn means-“the beginning of his father's procreative power” in this passage.

Here is the word “firstborn” in Colossians:
1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation, 16 for all things in heaven and on earth were created by him – all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers – all things were created through him and for him.

Now we replace the word firstborn with the meaning of “firstborn” from Deuteronomy, it reads like this:

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the beginning of his father’s procreative power over all creation, 16 for all things in heaven and on earth were created by him – all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers – all things were created through him and for him.

That is how I understand the Son as being the “firstborn.” I hope that helps make it clear. The Son was procreated, not created. Firstborns come through procreation unless God or the father designates someone else as a “firstborn” and the Bible will make that clear. The Bible never says that the Son of God was created, nor does it say that He was designated as a son. Nor does it say that He had an older brother of which the Son of God took away the rights as the true “firstborn.”

God does call the Son his firstborn that He will bring back again into the world. So we know that God is not referring to His Son as the “firstborn from the dead” as the firstborn that He will bring back into the world. God calls the Son His firstborn that is over all creation, not over the new creation even that would be true also.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2010,17:16)

Hi LU All the human sons of God are so because God's Spirit dwells in them and empowers them. The Lord Jesus is the head of the body and the firstborn son but he is not ashamed to call us his brothers We are told we shall do greater things than Jesus did so where is the inherent preanointing advantage you claim he has?

Nick,
But can any human son claim that he was the root of David as well as the descendent of David?

You are right that the Lord Jesus is the head of the body and the firstborn son and He is not ashamed to call us His brothers.

We are told that we shall do greater things than Jesus did, but that was while He walked on earth. BTW, what greater things have you done that were supernatural?

His advantage over us is that He is our God and His God is our Most High God. Together they represent one Godhead together with the Holy Spirit who is the inner person from the Father.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2010,17:09)

Quote (Lightenup @ April 13 2010,07:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2010,15:35) Quote (Lightenup @ April 13 2010,06:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2010,06:18) Hi LU, He was an earthly man, not a superman. Like Adam he had a heavenly father. He was of an earthly mother too Nick, Adam never knew God as “Father.” Adam was not a result of being begotten by God, he came as a result of being created by God.  Adam did not exist before he was the first created man.  Jesus existed long before He was born of Mary.  His origins were from ancient times, He existed before Abraham was born.  He was a supernatural being who helped create the world etc.  He gave up His supernatural abilities and memory to become a man.  You don't seem to appreciate all He gave up, or His past history. A righteous man cannot redeem even one man from his sins.  Don't you think you ought to get a better foundation?  You are crumbling. Hi LU, Jesus was not a superman. He was a son of adam[man]who was a son of God[Lk3] the more advantaged you make him the less easy he is to follow. Nick, You seem to only know the “descendent of David” part of Jesus and not the “root of David” part. I would rather follow a righteous leader who is full of truth and grace and knows who He is and has God for His literal Father and is walking in the power of the kingdom of heaven, rather than some man that cannot save anyone. If He was just a descendent of David, He could not save even one man.  I have shown you that in two passages (witnesses) now. Hi LU, God was his father. How does that make him a superman? Can you become like him or is he just an icon to you?

Nick,
We will be made to be godly but we won't be the only God who is at the side of the Father. Nor will we be made both Christ and Lord, nor will we have angels and mankind worshiping us.

[NickHassan]

hi LU,
Are you in Christ or is he an icon to you?

[Lightenup]

Nick,
I am in Christ and He is in me as well as His Father through the Comforter. They are my Godhead not an icon.

Is the Christ that was the root of David in you or just the Christ that is the descendant of David?

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
So do you worship yourself?
The apostles who worshiped him were not one with him till pentecost

[Lightenup]

No Nick,
I do not worship myself. I'm not “in” Him like that. I am in His hand and no one can snatch me away from His hand. When we are one with Him, we still are not Him. The disciple apostles received the Holy Spirit the day of the resurrection, long before the pentecost. They worshiped Him before and after they received the Holy Spirit.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
You are not yet reborn into him?[Rom 6.3,Gal 3. 27, Col 3.3]
Waste no more time philosophising.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
In the hand of the Lord?
Sounds like a myth

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 12 2010,22:41)

Hi LU, In the hand of the Lord? Sounds like a myth

Nick,

John 10:28-29
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
NASU

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
Good call.
But you need to stop just admiring him and follow him.
There are no prizes for setting up temples to the anointed as Pater wanted to do on the mountain.

[Lightenup]

Nick,
What makes you think that I am not following Him? Do you think we should follow the Holy Spirit?

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
He said true worshipers worship the Father and we should listen.
God is the source and the path is to Him.

[Lightenup]

Nick,
Where did you get the idea that I don't worship the Father. Am I not the one declaring that the Father is the Most High God?

[Author]

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