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Hi LU,
So what you have to realise is that the Spirit of Christ is what is important.
That is why 1 cor 10 speaks of that Spirit as Christ.
But men focus on the vessel.Quote (terraricca @ April 08 2010,01:56) Quote (Lightenup @ April 07 2010,17:04) Quote (terraricca @ April 06 2010,22:45) Quote (Lightenup @ April 07 2010,13:24) God supplied the only God at the Father's side to become a man, Jesus Christ, and pay for all men's sins, past, present and future.
Hallelujah!!
LUsorry Christ position will be changed after he as finish to accomplish the work his father gives him;so that there is only one ruler in all;
1Co 15:27 Scripture says that God “has put everything under his control. It says that “everything” has been put under him. But it is clear that this does not include God himself, who puts everything under Christ.
1Co 15:28 When he has done that, the Son also will be under God’s rule. God puts everything under the Son. In that way, God will be all in all.and only one spirit “TO SERVE 'OUT OF TRUE LOVE”
so God then Christ then the angels then the men then the animals ,and all in Gods rule only one ruler not two not tree,not one plus a arm ,not one plus a finger,
just one ruler, and that it .GOD the FATHER;
terraricca,2 Peter 1:11
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
NASU
Heb 1:8
8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
NASUThe Son's throne is for ever and ever…He never gives up His throne in His ETERNAL kingdom. It's scripture! If the Son isn't also going to be our ruler, why does He have a kingdom and a throne for ever and ever…so He can rule over nothing? I don't think so.
LU2Ti 2:23 Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels.
2Ti 2:24 And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
2Ti 2:25 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.you did not show that you have understand the scriptures i have showed you ,they are well consistent with the ones you quoted
LUwen you put scriptures and only apply them to your understanding ,were does it leads,nowhere
Rev 3:12
12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
NASU
He who overcomes includes as well the total obedience to Christ in all his words and teachings ,not inventing like worship him wen he says directly “only worship God”
Christ his a servant of his father ,being second in command is not first, and not equal to the first ,second means second.recognise Christ as the son of God the father that is what Christ has teach us all over the scriptures,is teachings reinforce the old testament and is accomplishment ,
this is the true gospel,so do not change it ,by mare assumptions.
Hi LU,
Those who focus on the vessels come up with the wrong ideas that God is an angel or a man.
God truly visits His people and speaks to and heals them using vessels.
We are offered that opportunity[2Tim2]Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 07 2010,22:51) Hi LU,
His own spirit left him at calvary.
That is what happens when men die.
Jn 19.30
Mt 27.50
Lk 23.46Ecc 12
Yes Nick,
Our spirit and soul leave our mortal body and returns to the Father, but that is not the end of the story. God gives our spirit and soul a new, immortal body and so He did with Christ. Christ received a glorified body which included the markings of His victory, i.e. His scars.Quote 15:35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 15:36 Fool! What you sow will not come to life unless it dies. 15:37 And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare seed 23 – perhaps of wheat or something else. 15:38 But God gives it a body just as he planned, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. 15:39 All flesh is not the same: People have one flesh, animals have another, birds and fish another. 24 15:40 And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. The glory of the heavenly body is one sort and the earthly another. 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon and another glory of the stars, for star differs from star in glory.
15:42 It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. 25 15:43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 15:45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person”; 26 the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 15:46 However, the spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. 15:47 The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven. 15:48 Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust, and like the one from heaven, so too those who are heavenly. 15:49 And just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, let us also bear 27 the image of the man of heaven.
15:50 Now this is what I am saying, brothers and sisters: 28 Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 15:51 Listen, 29 I will tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, 30 but we will all be changed – 15:52 in a moment, in the blinking 31 of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 15:54 Now when this perishable puts on the imperishable, and this mortal puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will happen,
“Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 32
15:55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?” 33Quote (Lightenup @ April 09 2010,06:45) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 07 2010,22:51) Hi LU,
His own spirit left him at calvary.
That is what happens when men die.
Jn 19.30
Mt 27.50
Lk 23.46Ecc 12
Yes Nick,
Our spirit and soul leave our mortal body and returns to the Father, but that is not the end of the story. God gives our spirit and soul a new, immortal body and so He did with Christ. Christ received a glorified body which included the markings of His victory, i.e. His scars.Quote 15:35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 15:36 Fool! What you sow will not come to life unless it dies. 15:37 And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare seed 23 – perhaps of wheat or something else. 15:38 But God gives it a body just as he planned, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. 15:39 All flesh is not the same: People have one flesh, animals have another, birds and fish another. 24 15:40 And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. The glory of the heavenly body is one sort and the earthly another. 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon and another glory of the stars, for star differs from star in glory.
15:42 It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. 25 15:43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 15:45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person”; 26 the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 15:46 However, the spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. 15:47 The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven. 15:48 Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust, and like the one from heaven, so too those who are heavenly. 15:49 And just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, let us also bear 27 the image of the man of heaven.
15:50 Now this is what I am saying, brothers and sisters: 28 Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 15:51 Listen, 29 I will tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, 30 but we will all be changed – 15:52 in a moment, in the blinking 31 of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 15:54 Now when this perishable puts on the imperishable, and this mortal puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will happen,
“Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 32
15:55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?” 33
LUi still believe you do not understand the scriptures you quoted ,make me see it,what is Paul saying;
Quote (Lightenup @ April 09 2010,06:45) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 07 2010,22:51) Hi LU,
His own spirit left him at calvary.
That is what happens when men die.
Jn 19.30
Mt 27.50
Lk 23.46Ecc 12
Yes Nick,
Our spirit and soul leave our mortal body and returns to the Father, but that is not the end of the story. God gives our spirit and soul a new, immortal body and so He did with Christ. Christ received a glorified body which included the markings of His victory, i.e. His scars.Quote 15:35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 15:36 Fool! What you sow will not come to life unless it dies. 15:37 And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare seed 23 – perhaps of wheat or something else. 15:38 But God gives it a body just as he planned, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. 15:39 All flesh is not the same: People have one flesh, animals have another, birds and fish another. 24 15:40 And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. The glory of the heavenly body is one sort and the earthly another. 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon and another glory of the stars, for star differs from star in glory.
15:42 It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. 25 15:43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 15:45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person”; 26 the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 15:46 However, the spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. 15:47 The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven. 15:48 Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust, and like the one from heaven, so too those who are heavenly. 15:49 And just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, let us also bear 27 the image of the man of heaven.
15:50 Now this is what I am saying, brothers and sisters: 28 Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 15:51 Listen, 29 I will tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, 30 but we will all be changed – 15:52 in a moment, in the blinking 31 of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 15:54 Now when this perishable puts on the imperishable, and this mortal puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will happen,
“Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 32
15:55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?” 33
Hi LU,
You seem to have added SOUL.Where does scripture say the SOUL returns to God at death??
Where does it say our spirit later returns from God?So terraricca, do you understand them and you just want my understanding, or do you not understand them?
Nick,
Have you noticed how TT and WJ appear and disappear from the forum at almost the same time – Perhaps THEY ARE ONE, a left hand one and a righthand one with nothing in the middle?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 08 2010,15:18) Quote (Lightenup @ April 09 2010,06:45) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 07 2010,22:51) Hi LU,
His own spirit left him at calvary.
That is what happens when men die.
Jn 19.30
Mt 27.50
Lk 23.46Ecc 12
Yes Nick,
Our spirit and soul leave our mortal body and returns to the Father, but that is not the end of the story. God gives our spirit and soul a new, immortal body and so He did with Christ. Christ received a glorified body which included the markings of His victory, i.e. His scars.Quote 15:35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 15:36 Fool! What you sow will not come to life unless it dies. 15:37 And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare seed 23 – perhaps of wheat or something else. 15:38 But God gives it a body just as he planned, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. 15:39 All flesh is not the same: People have one flesh, animals have another, birds and fish another. 24 15:40 And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. The glory of the heavenly body is one sort and the earthly another. 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon and another glory of the stars, for star differs from star in glory.
15:42 It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. 25 15:43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 15:45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person”; 26 the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 15:46 However, the spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. 15:47 The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven. 15:48 Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust, and like the one from heaven, so too those who are heavenly. 15:49 And just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, let us also bear 27 the image of the man of heaven.
15:50 Now this is what I am saying, brothers and sisters: 28 Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 15:51 Listen, 29 I will tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, 30 but we will all be changed – 15:52 in a moment, in the blinking 31 of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 15:54 Now when this perishable puts on the imperishable, and this mortal puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will happen,
“Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 32
15:55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?” 33
Hi LU,
You seem to have added SOUL.Where does scripture say the SOUL returns to God at death??
Where does it say our spirit later returns from God?
Hi Nick,
I am leaving soon but here is your first answer:Quote Where does scripture say the SOUL returns to God at death?? Ps 49:7-15
7 No man can by any means redeem his brother Or give to God a ransom for him —
8 For the redemption of his soul is costly, And he should cease trying forever —
9 That he should live on eternally, That he should not undergo decay.
10 For he sees that even wise men die; The stupid and the senseless alike perish And leave their wealth to others.
11 Their inner thought is that their houses are forever And their dwelling places to all generations; They have called their lands after their own names.
12 But man in his pomp will not endure; He is like the beasts that perish.
13 This is the way of those who are foolish, And of those after them who approve their words. Selah.
14 As sheep they are appointed for Sheol; Death shall be their shepherd; And the upright shall rule over them in the morning, And their form shall be for Sheol to consume So that they have no habitation.
15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol, For He will receive me. Selah.
NASUQuote Where does it say our spirit later returns from God? Our spirit doesn't return “from” God. It goes to God after our body dies and stays with God forever and is contained within our new heavenly body. Each of us gets our own new heavenly body and we will be with God always.
2 Cor 5:6-8
6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord —
7 for we walk by faith, not by sight —
8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
NASUThen, re-read the verses about us receiving our incorruptible body in the previous post.
Quote (JustAskin @ April 08 2010,15:21) Nick, Have you noticed how TT and WJ appear and disappear from the forum at almost the same time – Perhaps THEY ARE ONE, a left hand one and a righthand one with nothing in the middle?
JA,
Does that kind of comment please the Lord?Hi LU,
So where was the SOUL, in the verse you quote, when it was redeemed?
Sheol in the earth is the home of the souls of natural men after death.
Hades could not hold Jesus and neither can the gates of hades hold the sons of God who go to the mansions of Christ.But the soul is not the spirit.
The spirit returns to God at death.[ecc12]
The spirit of man finds no further mention after death in scripture.Those who live after death do so by the living Spirit of God
Quote (Lightenup @ April 09 2010,07:21) So terraricca, do you understand them and you just want my understanding, or do you not understand them?
LUi just want to know if you understand it ,because of your vision of things ,i wander so i am curios
its an observation, LU.
They are not there one time and then they are both there together and then there are not.
TT usually jumps inin the middle of a dialogue with WJ just as WJ is struggling as if hehas been called.The dialogue withnWJ then all goes to pot and WJ dives away only to resurface elsewhere.
It has happened several times and is quite annoying.Quote (JustAskin @ April 08 2010,18:18) its an observation, LU. They are not there one time and then they are both there together and then there are not.
TT usually jumps inin the middle of a dialogue with WJ just as WJ is struggling as if hehas been called.The dialogue withnWJ then all goes to pot and WJ dives away only to resurface elsewhere.
It has happened several times and is quite annoying.
JAYou are not being a hypocrite are you?
Didn't you dive out of this conversation that we had…
Quote (JustAskin @ April 07 2010,19:45) Perhaps I am your refiner. Perhaps I am the fire that will consume you and soften your granite heart and then reshape you in the mould of Truth and Righteousness through God's Holy Word brought to mankind by the auspices of the man, now spirit, Jesus Christ, begotten son of God, son of Man, King of kings, Lord of lords.
Perhaps because you set yourself as God of this forum and I want to show you how little you are. How does that saying go 'He that wants to be first…'
You boast that I was nothing to you because you have been here for YEARS (can you see how laughable that is) and still you have learnt nothing, not even how to put a plausible defence of an implausible creed.
But how can you move forward? There can be no learning because to learn would be to dismiss trinity doctrine, remove the cork from the bottle and then you can taste the pure clear waters of Spiritual Truth.
You cannit quench your thirst, for thirsty you are, you seek the waters of life, but only lick at the soiled droplets on the outside of the bottle.Until, you uncork the bottle, you cannot taste the Truth.
Jesus is coming soon, 'Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her uniquities', sayeth the Lord.
JaInteresting, Fire is a type of the Holy Spirit. Are you making yourself equal with God? What can I say?
Hey all. JA believes he is sent here like the Holy Spirit to soften our hearts!
You shall know them by their fruits.
Since you claim that you are sent here to “show me how little I am”, why did you deny my offer to a debate in the debates thread? HMMM?
That’s funny! Tell you what holy one, lets put your words to action mr big shot, the self appointed prophet, that bully in the school yard that is a coward when you stand up to him.
Let’s take it to the debates thread and have serious dialogue without all this childish diatribe from you and all the hecklers here that nip at your heals with accusations and no substance.
Just a serious one on one discussion about the truth that you claim to have.
What ya say, eh? Are you up to showing me how little I am?
WJ
All you do is run around this sight making accusations but never bring any substance to you writings, why is that???
Come on, take my challenge and stop all the childish diatribe!!!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 09 2010,10:41) Quote (JustAskin @ April 08 2010,18:18) its an observation, LU. They are not there one time and then they are both there together and then there are not.
TT usually jumps inin the middle of a dialogue with WJ just as WJ is struggling as if hehas been called.The dialogue withnWJ then all goes to pot and WJ dives away only to resurface elsewhere.
It has happened several times and is quite annoying.
JAYou are not being a hypocrite are you?
Didn't you dive out of this conversation that we had…
Quote (JustAskin @ April 07 2010,19:45) Perhaps I am your refiner. Perhaps I am the fire that will consume you and soften your granite heart and then reshape you in the mould of Truth and Righteousness through God's Holy Word brought to mankind by the auspices of the man, now spirit, Jesus Christ, begotten son of God, son of Man, King of kings, Lord of lords.
Perhaps because you set yourself as God of this forum and I want to show you how little you are. How does that saying go 'He that wants to be first…'
You boast that I was nothing to you because you have been here for YEARS (can you see how laughable that is) and still you have learnt nothing, not even how to put a plausible defence of an implausible creed.
But how can you move forward? There can be no learning because to learn would be to dismiss trinity doctrine, remove the cork from the bottle and then you can taste the pure clear waters of Spiritual Truth.
You cannit quench your thirst, for thirsty you are, you seek the waters of life, but only lick at the soiled droplets on the outside of the bottle.Until, you uncork the bottle, you cannot taste the Truth.
Jesus is coming soon, 'Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her uniquities', sayeth the Lord.
JaInteresting, Fire is a type of the Holy Spirit. Are you making yourself equal with God? What can I say?
Hey all. JA believes he is sent here like the Holy Spirit to soften our hearts!
You shall know them by their fruits.
Since you claim that you are sent here to “show me how little I am”, why did you deny my offer to a debate in the debates thread? HMMM?
That’s funny! Tell you what holy one, lets put your words to action mr big shot, the self appointed prophet, that bully in the school yard that is a coward when you stand up to him.
Let’s take it to the debates thread and have serious dialogue without all this childish diatribe from you and all the hecklers here that nip at your heals with accusations and no substance.
Just a serious one on one discussion about the truth that you claim to have.
What ya say, eh? Are you up to showing me how little I am?
WJ
All you do is run around this sight making accusations but never bring any substance to you writings, why is that???
Come on, take my challenge and stop all the childish diatribe!!!
WJ
WJwho would you know what the scriptures hold in spirit,you a mare carnal man who like to play like kids challenge to uplift your ego ,dispute on words and interpretation of words,
not scriptural,not recommended for righteous man ,the results do not end up the glory of God,the true light is in the spirit of Christ and God NOT MEN STUPIDITY
Wj, what time is it where you are?
It is 0:46hrs in the uk.
It was even later last night when i left.If i leave to go to sleep, is that 'ducking out'
You ask abouta debat, manno a manno, how us that different to what we doing now.
You make excuse that you can't answer posts because you and Jack are the only two (some word I forget) in this forum so you are busy, well try not getting involved in so many topics, then…
The debate you talk about would have been pointlesss at the time, i didn't even see the 'challenge' till things had 'cooled' when i was looking through some backposts.
Why didn't you mail me the challenge?When we challenging in open forum, why not tell jack to 'j,,k', would he do that in real life?
I know its open, spontaneous, but courtesy can still take precedence.Avoiding a one to one I might be because we wouldn't last long.
Your pists are, like I repeat, repeats, there are no scriptural revelations, there cannot be for you, the falsity of the trinity traps you from progressing because the revelation shows that Jesusis not God but you cannot take advantage because your whole cause is to say that he is.
There is no new refekation that supports trinity,
The trinity creed writers were not thinking long term nor did they realise that mankind would grow in knowledge to learn the truth. Remember that most ordinary people couldn't read[greek, latin…] and couldn't dispute the written word but relied in oral learning. It is easy to fool people with orality by the nuances and stresses in the orality, something that is lost when the person is able to read the word for themself.
I heard a Rastafarian speak once. He was masterful and I was believing what he said but something was niggling me and I read his oration for myself … And laughed my head off. Masterful, indeed, a trickster, to boot. He had read partial verses and strung together a collage of verses missing out partsthat didn't fit and it was verbally cinvincing.The trinity dictrine was created to quell rowdy bishops dusagreeing with each other and giving Emporer Constantine an embarassing time, And howthe Romans hated an uproar because it meant they weren't in control and the next emporer or governor in waiting would be poised to seize the position and quell the uproar.
Constantine stole christianity and abominated it eith the trinity (I know he didn't actually do it but it is attributed to him, nonetheless).
The three in one is only there because they made a monumental error and included three persons as Gods then realised that they couldn't sell it because the whole Christian world knew there was only ONE God.
So, what to do…
Hmm…ah, here is something, they are not Three Gods but ONE God, three persons but one person And they are all equal and coEternal, well, they would HAVEto be, you can't createa God, can't create God.
There that will fool them…And, because We, Romans, are now in charge of Christianity, what we say is what all the Churches must do or be called Dissident. Ha, whhooey, close one but genious solution.
However, there were some that did not believe…Kathi,
Adam was the first Son of God.But he sinned and lost his status. God removed his Holy Spirit from him.
Jesus is the second Adam, the second Son of God, and was anointed with the Holy Spirit.
This Anointing means he becomes God's First Son, in place of Adan, therefore the term, Begotten, is used to show that he succeeds in place of another (In place of the first Adam).
Please read the Scriptures, you shoukf know it backwards and forwards by now, and show where the examples of 'Begotten ones' are given.
What were the circumstances of the anointing and the Begetting?
Quote (JustAskin @ April 08 2010,20:35) Wj, what time is it where you are? It is 0:46hrs in the uk.
It was even later last night when i left.If i leave to go to sleep, is that 'ducking out'
JAYou mean you actually have a legitimate reason for not posting? Could it be when you are whining like a child about Jack and myself not posting that we might be asleep while you are awake, or that we might be at work?
Nah, of course that could not be possible right?
You are truly a trip!
WJ
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