The old man

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
So far you have propounded a whole series of new doctrines based on your personal implications and odd use of logic.
Did you expect us to welcome such new teachings on a bible study site?

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,14:03)

Hi KW, Calling folks liars normally draws a tile but towards me? Perhaps t8 may object but I guess your anger at disagreement is the cause. Calm yourself and go back to what is written.

Now stop dodging and answer my questions instead of uttering nonsense.  I believe you are abusing scripture as a way of avoiding a truth you find unpleasant.

This is the only 2 questions I would like you to answer at this time.

1) By the time one exits their mother's womb does a human being have a spirit?

2) Is that spirit the spirit of holiness?

My anger is at deception that seems plain to me.   I also explained why I believe you were lying so you could explain yourself if I am mistaken.  You have not tried to do so.

I assure you that Jesus called people “a brood of vipers” and he was not alone in such actions.

If honesty is a sin to you then crucify me for it.  I will joyfully undergo such action.   If I cannot stand up to such light persecution then I have no hope in the Anointed One.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Is this a science quiz now?

The Father of spirits, our God, created Adam from his breath into the dust of earth, then Eve, and told them to be fruitful and multiply.

Scripture never calls conception and pregnancy and birth being born of water and the spirit but you have birthed and grasped this new brand new concept from some sort of odd science.

You should move on from weak science and self justification and return to the source of truth, the bible.

You cannot alloy your odd science to the truth of scripture.

[kerwin]

Nick Hassan,

I now realize you are in self-denial.   That is always tricky to deal with.   Science does not deal with the spirit, whether it is the spirit of righteousness or not.   Since you are unwilling to answer those straightforward questions I will attempt to deal with the situation in another way.

In the book of Law we are told:

Numbers 14:2024(NASB) reads:

Quote

So the LORD said, “I have pardoned them according to your word; but indeed, as I live, all the earth will be filled with the glory of the LORD. “Surely all the men who have seen My glory and My signs which I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness, yet have put Me to the test these ten times and have not listened to My voice, shall by no means see the land which I swore to their fathers, nor shall any of those who spurned Me see it. “But My servant Caleb, because he has had a different spirit and has followed Me fully, I will bring into the land which he entered, and his descendants shall take possession of it.

What is the definition of Spirit in this passage?

In what way is Caleb's Spirit different than the others?

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
Now I am the subject of your analytical “science?”
You cannot converse without didactic judgement yet your foundation is human wisdom?

'Spirit' in Numbers 14 is as 'soul' as often occurs in scripture-only the Word can discern between the two. [Heb 4.12]
Like Nathaniel in Jn1 he is open to the ways and teachings of his God.

[kerwin]

Nick Hassan wrote:

Quote

'Spirit' in Numbers 14 is as 'soul' as often occurs in scripture-only the Word can discern between the two.  [Heb 4.12]

I might actually agree with you on if you are stating that spirit in this Numbers is used as a synonym for “soul”.   The two seem to work together, or at least are supposed to.

I am not sure how you are interpreting Hebrews 4:12 but perhaps we will discuss that at another time.

The soul from what I understand is the part of a person that both hungers and thirst for righteousness, Matthew 5:6, or loves darkness, John 3:19 while the spirit is the principals you live by, Galatians 5:22-23.

When they are divided you will have an internal struggle which Paul speaks of in Romans 7:25 and of which Jesus rescues him from in the same verse.

The one thing I find that makes me think it is not the soul God speaking of as he relates “spirit” to Caleb’s fruits with the words “and has followed Me fully”.

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
The Spirit spoken of in Gal5.22 is the Holy Spirit of God that abides in those reborn from above who submit to the guidance of that treasure.
That Spirit is with the spirit of the man[Rom8.16]

There is no alternative OLD or SHARED HUMAN SPIRIT or CORRUPTED SPIRIT or PRINCIPALS LIVED BY spoken of here or anywhere else in scripture but rather the FLESH.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 25 2010,19:33)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,14:03) Hi KW, Calling folks liars normally draws a tile but towards me? Perhaps t8 may object but I guess your anger at disagreement is the cause. Calm yourself and go back to what is written. Now stop dodging and answer my questions instead of uttering nonsense.  I believe you are abusing scripture as a way of avoiding a truth you find unpleasant. This is the only 2 questions I would like you to answer at this time. 1) By the time one exits their mother's womb does a human being have a spirit? 2) Is that spirit the spirit of holiness? My anger is at deception that seems plain to me.   I also explained why I believe you were lying so you could explain yourself if I am mistaken.  You have not tried to do so. I assure you that Jesus called people “a brood of vipers” and he was not alone in such actions. If honesty is a sin to you then crucify me for it.  I will joyfully undergo such action.   If I cannot stand up to such light persecution then I have no hope in the Anointed One.

KW

the scriptures says that men is wicket from birth ,

would this not answer your questions???

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb;These who speak lies go astray from birth.
Also Job 25

Man's wonderful potential as a temple of the Spirit can only be realised recovering by the lost territory from Satan individually, by repentance, water baptism in the name of Jesus and rebirth from above.

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2010,00:40)

Hi KW, The Spirit spoken of in Gal5.22 is the Holy Spirit of God that abides in those reborn from above who submit to the guidance of that treasure. That Spirit is with the spirit of the man[Rom8.16] There is no alternative OLD or SHARED HUMAN SPIRIT or CORRUPTED SPIRIT or PRINCIPALS LIVED BY spoken of here or anywhere else in scripture but rather the FLESH.

Then you fail to understand scripture and if the truth is hidden it is hidden from those that are perishing.

Now as for “shared” spirit does not Scripture state that Caleb has a different spirit than them “who have seen My glory and My signs which I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness, yet have put Me to the test these ten times and have not listened to My voice.”  It appears obvious those rebels have the same spirit.  I am not sure you can conclude it is the same exact spirit or that it is the same type of spirit.  What I do know is that their spirit is more corrupt than the spirit of Caleb because the Lord said about them that they “have not listened to My voice” and about Caleb he stated he “has followed Me fully.”

This scripture states the principles Caleb lived by were such that he followed God fully and the rebels lived by principle of not listening to the Lord's voice.

I have not read anywhere your interpretation of the flesh is mentioned in the old testament.  Do you think Paul violated God's command and added to the law?, Deuteronomy 4:2.

Since the new spirit is received under the new covenant and that was not set in force prior or at the time this passage from Numbers is speaking of all the individuals including Caleb have the old spirit.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 26 2010,03:32)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 25 2010,19:33) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,14:03) Hi KW, Calling folks liars normally draws a tile but towards me? Perhaps t8 may object but I guess your anger at disagreement is the cause. Calm yourself and go back to what is written. Now stop dodging and answer my questions instead of uttering nonsense.  I believe you are abusing scripture as a way of avoiding a truth you find unpleasant. This is the only 2 questions I would like you to answer at this time. 1) By the time one exits their mother's womb does a human being have a spirit? 2) Is that spirit the spirit of holiness? My anger is at deception that seems plain to me.   I also explained why I believe you were lying so you could explain yourself if I am mistaken.  You have not tried to do so. I assure you that Jesus called people “a brood of vipers” and he was not alone in such actions. If honesty is a sin to you then crucify me for it.  I will joyfully undergo such action.   If I cannot stand up to such light persecution then I have no hope in the Anointed One. KW the scriptures says that men is wicket from birth , would this not answer your questions???

I believe that does answer my question.

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