The occult

[TimothyVI]

If fundamentalist Christians could answer questions with half the clarity that Cato exhibits,
I would be less confused.
But then they wouldn't be fundamentalist Christians I suppose.

Tim

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim4,
If fundamentalist means
bible believing servants of God
then you know that faith in God and the bible
does make us less knowledgeable about some matters
because faith does not require expertise, but rather trust.
As children we do not believe because we understand everything.

[Cato]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 31 2008,05:46)

Hi Tim4, If fundamentalist means bible believing servants of God then you know that faith in God and the bible does make us less knowledgeable about some matters because faith does not require expertise, but rather trust.   As children we do not believe because we understand everything.

Nick,
If you would but change bible with koran you would have the model of radical Islam and fanaticism rampant in the middle east.  Perhaps a little more knowledge to go along with that faith may be a good thing, sometimes you almost proclaim ignorance as virtue.

If fundamentalist means
Koran believing servants of God
then you know that faith in God and the Koran
does make us less knowledgeable about some matters
because faith does not require expertise, but rather trust.  
As children we do not believe because we understand everything.

[NickHassan]

Hi cato,
Their ways are open to you.
But we are believers in a God of power.

[david]

Quote

sometimes you almost proclaim ignorance as virtue.

Ignorance of some things (such as the occult) would be a virtue.

If someone has an intimate knowledge of the occult, that would be the opposite of a virtue.
If someone has a knowledge of how to commit badness (human torture for an extreme example) that wouldn't be a virtue.
Sometimes, lack of understanding of bad things is a virtue.

[Cato]

Quote (david @ April 01 2008,09:02)

Quote sometimes you almost proclaim ignorance as virtue. Ignorance of some things (such as the occult) would be a virtue. If someone has an intimate knowledge of the occult, that would be the opposite of a virtue. If someone has a knowledge of how to commit badness (human torture for an extreme example) that wouldn't be a virtue. Sometimes, lack of understanding of bad things is a virtue.

Any doctor who knows how to heal knows how to torture.

Fire can be used to warm or destroy, it is in the application and intent that good or evil is found.  

The understanding of evil is not a vice, only a fool does not seek to know his enemy.

“Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. “
Martin Luther King Jr.

[NickHassan]

Hi cato,
Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Natural man can know these things but does not seem to be equipped to handle that knowledge.

[Cato]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 01 2008,10:35)

Hi cato, Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Natural man can know these things but does not seem to be equipped to handle that knowledge.

Perhaps, but the fruit was eaten and innocence lost, ignorance can not reclaim it.

“If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.”
Isaac Asimov

[NickHassan]

Quote (Cato @ April 01 2008,22:36)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 01 2008,10:35) Hi cato, Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Natural man can know these things but does not seem to be equipped to handle that knowledge. Perhaps, but the fruit was eaten and innocence lost, ignorance can not reclaim it. “If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.” Isaac Asimov

Hi cato,
You are right except that resolving the problems was never meant to be within the grasp of natural men. We need salvation from evil and death, ourselves and each other.

Those who join in union with Jesus have the potential of the mind and powers of Christ, who is now one with God, as well as God's love and eternal life.

Such is the marvellous salvation we are offered.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Colter @ April 02 2008,01:40)

Forum, Some of the events and characters of the Bible were associated with a belief in curses and magic. Genes has the whole human race “cursed”, the beast was “cursed” and there's lot's of magic and spells. They were three magicians from a far away land that came to welcome the “light of the world” in Bethlehem. Bible worshipers are confronted with a need to rationalize these things away to protect the “fetish” or “idol” that the Bible has become among fundi. Scripture does not claim that scripture is infallible. The Bible does not claim that the Bible is the word of God. It was left to latter believers to petrify the Bible into a stagnant “talent” to be hidden under a rock. Colter

Hi colter,
Everyone has a foundation.

If that foundation is not the rock specified by Jesus then it is another such as reliance on the teachings or leadership of other men or on our own understanding.

The bible is the major revelation about God, life here and in heaven, now and in the future. I agree it is poorly understood and badly cared for but it is a very precious resource.

The fact that pagans better grasped the signs given by God in the heavens than the chosen people only reveals the embarrassing ignorance and inattention by the Israelites.

[Cato]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 02 2008,04:47)

Quote (Cato @ April 01 2008,22:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 01 2008,10:35) Hi cato, Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Natural man can know these things but does not seem to be equipped to handle that knowledge. Perhaps, but the fruit was eaten and innocence lost, ignorance can not reclaim it. “If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.” Isaac Asimov Hi cato, You are right except that resolving the problems was never meant to be within the grasp of natural men. We need salvation from evil and death, ourselves and each other. Those who join in union with Jesus have the potential of the mind and powers of Christ, who is now one with God, as well as God's love and eternal life. Such is the marvellous salvation we are offered.

Do you really believe we were not meant to solve problems here on earth?  Yes, I want to be saved and have an after-life but we have a life now also.  I would think God would want us to use the life we are given and the time we have to help our fellows and be good stewards of the earth (which obviously means solving problems).  If you are truly in union with Jesus you'd be confident of future salvation and get to work on the problems of the present.  Is that not why we are here on earth now and not at another time but to address today's problems.

[NickHassan]

Hi cato,
Should we not seek the will of our Master before we head off with our own agendas?

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

[NickHassan]

Hi colter,
Welcome back.

So Jesus existed and the accounts of his words and actions are accurate?

He said the rock was his teachings

Mt 7
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Paul did not have his own version of the gospel but explained the relevance of the gospel in practical terms.

[NickHassan]

Hi colter ,
I agree in part.

I agree that the New T interprets the Old.T
But the New cannot be understood without the Old
I also agree the Old is better preserved and known than the New.

But Jesus did constantly refer to the authority of scripture even in establishing his mission.
lk4
16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

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